I never thought I would be back here, but I am. About 15 or so years ago, this forum helped me get through my H's affair. Unbelievably painful, but we finally worked it out with the help of an excellent counselor. Things were good for a long time.

2 years ago, I learned that he was having an emotional affair that included phone sex, with a woman from Europe. We had met and spent a day sightseeing with her and her husband on a vacation here in the US. My husband was trying to learn her native language at the time, and I knew that they sometimes emailed in that language. She sent us Christmas cards, etc. At some point this other garbage started. I got a feeling and started searching. I found Facebook messages between them that left no doubt. She even wanted to come here when she traveled to visit her mother in FL, but luckily it never happened. Went back to the excellent counselor and things got better. We agreed that if he was dissatisfied again, he would be adult enough to tell me so we could decide together what to do.

Recently, I have had the old, creepy feeling that something was not right. Talked to H and asked him if anything was going on. He swore over and over that nothing was wrong. Even swore on his mother's grave. He is a talented liar! He has a full-time job and teaches evening classes at the local college, so is away from home a lot. I begged him not to teach this semester because we don't need the money and he is cranky and bitchy when he works that much, but he didn't listen to me. I guess you can see what's coming.

I still felt weird, so I went through his briefcase one night when he was at the gym and found a receipt for a $500+ pair of diamond and gold earrings. Bought on our anniversary. That he didn't give me. In fact he's never given me anything like that. :(( I was trying to figure out what to do and if I could gather more information. Luckily for me, he fell asleep with his iPhone in his hand. Since he takes Ambien, I knew he wouldn't wake up if I took it and looked at it.

OMG

She is 26 (he is 55)
Was one of his students
Has a jealous, threatening, 61(!) year old boyfriend who follows her around
Is a former pole dancer
He brought her here to MY house to have sex one night while I was out of town, and she wrote that as she lay in (thankfully, the guest bed) she felt "so at home"
They had unprotected sex
He has since had unprotected sex with me.
They had sex in classrooms in the buildings on campus where he teaches

Fabulous eh?

I'm just not sure to go from here. My father died less than two months ago, so I am still a bit torn up from that. H and I had been making plans to move to another area where we have always wanted to live. His crap has blown up all those dreams, I guess. We have a bought and paid for vacation to Italy that starts in two weeks. Don't know if I should go or not.

He says he regrets it all and will do anything to get me not to divorce him. He "just cant figure out how it could have happened. Um hmmm. He wants to go forward with our moving plans. We saw our longsuffering counselor today. She says he needs to see a psychiatrist, because his behavior sounds bipolar. Maybe. If there actually is something wrong with him, chemically, maybe I can give it another go. Not sure. Still sort of in shock. We've been married for 33 years, so the effort and complexity of pulling apart two lives, together for so long, is daunting. But my life, which I have always tried to live in a positive, honest way, is now like a bad version of the Jerry Springer show, through no fault of my own. It's going to be so much fun to go to the doctor and tell them that I need to be tested for STDs.

Thanks for listening. I am starting to feel like an idiot for staying after the first time. I could have started a new life back then and wouldn't have to deal with this garbage now.

Hi Dancer, welcome back to Marriage Builders! I am sorry you are back here but I am not surprised at all. To my amazement, many of the older members never used Marriage Builders and end up back here in repeat affairs. Did you and your husband ever consider using a qualified marriage program like Marriage Builders? They have a wealth of resources here that will result in an affair proofed marriage that is romantic and passionate. I can see from your post that your marriage was never affair proofed.

The problem with marriage counseling is that it is destructive to marriages. They have no idea in the world how to save a marriage and are actually destructive when there has been an affair.

And I am sure your husband is sorry he got caught, but all the remorse and crocodile tears in the world amount to absolutely ZILCH if he does not make a radical, dramatic change in his lifestyle.


We can tell you what is wrong with your husband for free. His behavior is that of a man whose lifestyle is full of temptations that he can't handle. He is the alcoholic who goes into the bar every day and wonders why he keeps getting drunk. Its real obvious to most that the solution is to stay out of the bar.

In your husbands case, he needs to change the environment that led to his affairs. That has NEVER been done. Going to a psychiatrist would be a needless distraction at a critical time in your marriage.

I would strongly urge you to lose this "counselor" and try something that actually works, Marriage Builders.

Please go read the "Start Here" thread at the top of this forum for first steps. The first step in your situation would be to expose his affairs wide and far and follow the program in Surviving an Affair by Dr Bill Harley.

Welcome back and sorry it's under these circumstances.

Have you read these?
Start Here First-Welcome Aboard

Thanks for the replies. I have done a lot of reading today on this website. When I was here before, I did buy the Harley's books, workbook, etc, and used them, but I guess we did not follow the procedures as we should have, or we got lax in following them.

I have to say that in "the olden days" this website was somewhat different. I don't remember the emphasis on exposing all details to everyone you know, which seems to be a huge part of the program now. I can see why it is a good way to end the affair. Also, there were no detailed instructions on how to do all the James Bond-type information gathering with electronics, software, etc. Again, I *can* see the value in this. But overall, the site seems more hard-core than it used to be, rather than supportive. I know what you are going to say - that these are tough problems and tough measures must be taken to solve them, if you want your marriage to survive and thrive.

But is it really worth being married if you have to treat your spouse like a teenager, with you playing the parent role? I personally have never had problems with this kind of temptation, which makes it really, really hard for me to understand how someone can throw their whole life away for - that. I don't want to be the drill sergeant, watching every move my husband makes. I'm just tired of all this.

There is really nobody to expose it to. All of our parents are dead. He is an only child. We don't have children. If I tell my sisters and my best friend, it will not hurt him at all, but will make my life a living h#ll if I decide to stay, because they will all think I'm an idiot for not "kicking him to the curb." This didn't happen at his day job, so telling his boss would not accomplish anything. I guess I could call the college, since he was using their facilities for his activities.

Sorry to ramble on. Guess I'm still in shock mode, and pondering whether it's worth it to fight.

Exposure includes the OW side as well. Do you know anything about her? Is she married? Kids?

Also, staying or leaving is your decision. In all of the stories that I've read on this site, serial cheaters are the worst and least likely to stop cheating. Nobody would blame you for "kicking him to the curb" after all of this. The folks here will help you save your marriage, if thats what you want. If not, then there are loads of people here that can help you navigate the whole divorce route too.

Good luck

Well, only you can decide whether it's worth it to fight or whether it is better to divorce. You certainly would be justified, given that your husband knew what he was doing and went ahead and did it anyway.

I have been reading and posting here for the last 5 years. From what I have read, the MB forum has really evolved. It used to be a place where people commiserated and blogged about their situation. Now, it is very action-oriented, putting the MB principles into practice. Dr. Harley has developed an excellent plan for busting up affairs and recovering marriages. It is not a series of plans that will work with deviation though. People who take shortcuts or cherry pick what parts of MB they want to use are not successful. The support comes not from "feel good" posts, but by sharing the MB concepts and how to implement them. You, of course, are always able to ignore the concepts. But, the potential for a recovered marriage significantly decreases.

Regarding comment about treating your spouse like a teenager: The goal at MB is to create an interdependent versus independent lifestyle. It is to provide extraordinary care for your spouse. In the case of recovering from an affair, transparency of cell phone records, computers, emails, etc gives the betrayed spouse confidence that the wayward spouse is no longer wayward. For me, in the first couple of years after my H's affair, I checked things very frequently. Now, I do it once in a while, whenever I feel like it. H welcomes it because he knows it makes me comfortable and it provides accountability for him. Your husband was able to develope a secret second life to conduct his long-distance affair and to conduct his breech of authority by banging one of his students. He was able to do this because the two of you were independent and he was not open and honest about his activity.

Too hard core? I hope not. MB really does work if the principles and plans are followed.

AM

Please read armymama's post to you again. It sums it up very well.

Now that you've read more today about MB and how Dr. Harley has a Plan to kill an affair and recover a Marriage.

Do you want to fight and recover your marriage? We are here to help guide you if you want to use the MB plans.

Have you read the book SAA?

Yes, the forum is much more focused, but it is much more supportive than when I arrived here 13 years ago. Now, the forum is focused on saving marriages using Dr Harley's concepts. Back then it wasn't. It was more a chat forum where personal opinion reigned supreme. Unfortunately, many of those people lost their marriages because they did not use this program. It is a crying shame. It is like they went to MD Anderson with their cancer but never got past the waiting room because they were too busy chatting with others!

Over the years some of us discovered the MB program and implemented it. Once we saw what an amazing difference it made in our own marriages, we stuck around to help others get the same thing. Those of us who have great marriages today are passionate about helping others achieve the same thing. No one helped me when I arrived so I didn't want others to show up here and get nothing other than some empty back slapping or personal attacks by brazen OW.


No it is not worth it at all if that is the case. But, the POJA helps a couple avoid all that. You can't play a parent and have a happy marriage.


Some good exposure targets would be the workplace - not just his boss, but Human Resources and a key board member. I would include the OW's boyfriend, parents, family and friends. You should also expose to your own family and any of his family. That is therapeutic.

And you do understand that your husband would need to change his job, right? He cannot be trusted in a leadership role around women. That is what Dr Harley means when he says the environment must be changed in order to recover.


We understand completely! But it could be worth it if you really recovered this time. Many others have recovered and you can have that same thing.

Thanks everyone. ML, I really appreciate your thoughtful reply and explanation of the evolution of the MB forums. I hear everything you are saying and you sound like a very generous and caring person to want to help others like this.

I know I need to get myself together and start moving forward, but today I am kind of running on empty.

I used to own a copy of SAA, but donated it a few years ago. Time to buy a new one, and get busy.

We know how it hurts.

MB is all about plans. You will be surprised on how much better you will feel if you make a Plan and follow it.

We can help you with that. Do you want help with that?

Did you read the Exposure 101 thread and listen to the clips in there? Dr. H explains the importance of exposure.

Did you save the evidence you found?