What if you asked them why they didn't go a different way and they just said "I dont know". I hear that a lot. Now, if you knew for a fact that they knew at least 1 or 2 other ways to go but didn't use them? How long would it take before you started taking it personally? A year, 2, 20?

You said that there's another perspective here thats just as valid as mine. I dont disagree but I would like you to make the arguement and convince me... I'm not trying to be a smart a$$, I really want to hear how you would approach it.

We're not talking about extreme cases here. I use the traffic example because it's simple to understand yet difficult to comprehend why your spouse would risk getting home hours late. Maybe they want to get home hours late? Again, another problem masked as ignoring you.

My way is not inherently right. You are correct. Sort of. Every basic time management program available today suggests that having a to-do list makes you more efficient and helps keep you from missing/forgetting important things. In our most recent example of her job, I suggested a basic list of things that she said she needed so she wouldn't miss anything. Is there another way? Maybe, but even if there was, she didn't use it. She did nothing and got none of the information that she needed. The next day (yesterday) she sent an email to her boss with the exact list that she should have had at the board meeting. It took an additional 24 hours for her to get the answers that she needed. Yes, this "other way" worked but only after she killed an entire evening and all of our UA time getting nothing that she needed. In the end, she used the list that I suggested and it worked. She just implemented the solution her own way.

I would have been OK with her emailing the list off to her boss ahead of time so the board meeting would have been more productive. My problem is that by ignoring my suggestion it made me feel that it meant nothing to her. Ignore me once, no problem. Twice, who cares... Everytime? Somewhere I'm gonna start wondering why.

Tell me more about this Respectful Persuasion. Is there some info on the website or is it in one of Dr. H's books?

It's in Love Busters, at least in the recent editions. There's an amazing example about wearing seat belts. Whoever would've thought that was up for negotiation, right?

marcos, I'm reading LB now. I guess I'm not to that part yet. Thanks

Here's what I may be able to convince you of, if you'll just answer this question:


Why isn't that okay? Isn't it all right for her to do it 24 hours later? Why do you feel it has to be done perfectly? Why isn't it okay to wait?

If your answer is "because she risks losing her job," what's wrong with that? What's wrong with taking that risk?

What's wrong with not doing everything optimally in life, and then taking the consequences of not doing it optimally?

marcos, the answer is that it's fine to wait another 24 hours. In fact, she had been waiting for this board meeting for over a week so it wasn't like it had to be done right away. The problem isn't that she didn't do it my way. The problem is that not doing it at all caused her to waste the entire evening. In our current state, that loss of UA time was tough. Losing it because she wasn't prepared and could have been seemed to make it worse. The fact that she had a week to prepare and didn't is why I offered the suggestion of having the list to go into the meeting with.

Also, there wasn't any issue with her losing her job. She asked if I would be mad if she didn't take on the additional responsibility and I told her that it didn't matter to me. If she wanted to do it I would support her 100%. If she didn't then that was ok too.

I have no skin in that decision so it was totally hers to make. I would support it either way. Her job as an EMT would not be jepordized if she didn't take on the extra.

By the way, the extra work was doing all of the billing for the company. She has medical billing experience so we thought it would be a good fit as long as the company didn't abuse her in the process (like expecting her to work long hours at night, weekends, etc.). We POJA'd the things that would cause her to walk away from it so that wasn't an issue.

I would mark that down as either Dishonesty or Lack of Openness and Honesty - neglecting an emotional need. I know in our case, I would often respond that way to Markos. I wasn't being Open and Honest with him when he would ask such questions. The reason was because he was a Disrespectful, Demanding Jerk. And by being Disrespectful and Demanding on a regular basis, he discouraged Honesty. I simply did not want to get into it with him.

Why would you take what route was driven home personally? Why is your way so much better than hers? Because she won't be late?

What reasons does she have for not wanting to drive home your way? Do you know? Are they valid?

If it annoys you for her to be late, mark down as an annoying habit as Markos said. You still don't get to demand she drive home your way. You do not fix Annoying Habits with Demands.

Her perspective is just as valid as yours. Why?

Assuming she just wants to get home late is also a DJ.
I can think of several reasons why a person would choose a route that would get them home later.

When we lived in DFW, I would often choose to take a longer route because the freeway scared this country girl to death.

I have also often chosen NOT to do something a certain way simply because Markos demanded I do it that way.

Maybe she simply likes the scenery better.

Whatever the reason, you do not need to comprehend it in order for it to be valid.

That still doesn't make your way inherently right Maybe more efficient, but not inherently right. She is not wrong if she chooses to be inefficient. Maybe that annoys you, but again, you do not fix Annoying Habits with Demands.

So?

Here's the real problem. YOU sacrificed UA, and you were willing to do that as long as she did what you wanted her to do. But, since she didn't do it the way you wanted, you're now pissed off that you missed UA.

YOU shouldn't have sacrificed UA. The fact that she was inefficient has nothing to do with that.

Maybe she doesn't like being told what to do?

Why would you sacrifice your UA for a meeting when what she needed could've been done 24 hours later?

She didn't need efficiency. The two of you needed UA. And you're upset that your sacrificed UA was "wasted."

UA should never be sacrificed. You were willing to, and you set yourself up for this resentment.

I'm not sure why I'm coming across as demanding anything. Like I said, do it my way or do it some other way it really doesn't matter to me. In this case, I was willing to sacrifice the UA time and yes, I realize that was bad. It felt like she didn't place the same value on that sacrifice as I did because she went unprepared. I guess thats why I was offended.

To answer your question about why take it personally if she takes a different route home than I suggested... She hates driving in traffic and yet she chose to instead of going a different route. Everytime it was suggested. And the fact that she "didn't know why" was annoying. Again, I never demanded anything. Your reasons for taking a different route home that would make them later were great. I noticed you didn't mention that you just enjoyed driving in DFW traffic. Would you have taken the heavy traffic route if you hated driving in traffic when you knew there was an alternate route that would get you home quicker? Are you stuck on the fact that you think I'm demanding something? Really, all I want is to be a part of her life and for her to be open & honest with me. That was my #2 EN and for some reason she can't seem to be open with me.

I'm generally a fix-it kinda guy. I've learned over the years that I can't/shouldn't try to fix everything. <sarcasm>would the world be a better place if I was president? Of course</sarcasm>. I've given up on trying to fix most things and resolve to only offer suggestions when I think it might help. I do it with my kids too. gernerally, they make their own decisions and I consider it to be my job as their dad to make sure they have all of the information that they need to make a good decision. It's hard when they make a different decision than you would but I let them run with it and stand-by if/when they need me.

When it's your wife that never considers your input, thats a little different. Again, I dont generally care what you decide. It's the complete avoidance of my opinion that bothers me.

She was told by her boss that she had to go to this board meeting to get introduced and get her answers because the boss couldn't give them to her. It's a weird situation because the president just quit, short notice, and the board took over day-to-day operations.

You are correct. I set myself up for this resentment by sacrificing the UA time. And yes, I feel like the sacrifice was wasted.

Don't mean to throw a wrench in the works, and perhaps she is on the phone with you the whole time.

Have you thought that she may not necessarily be stuck in traffic during those two hours she takes to get home? That she could be using them as unaccountable time to do whatever?

Well, this is really elementary Marriage Builders stuff, actually. But if you don't want our help and advice to help you understand why it was demanding and disrespectful, you are free to decline it, and we can take our help elsewhere.

On the other hand, if you'd like the experience of someone who's been through times with a wife who was not on board, and what needs to be done to turn that around, this information we are giving you might prove to be very helpful.

Take my word for it, friend: you are describing demanding and disrespectful behavior on your part.


Like it or not, fair or not, you have to earn that. What you are doing is demanding that she include you.

Markos, excellent suggestion! I have to believe that this would be a great use of UA time!

I just found your own thread, so I'm cutting it and pasting it from where I responded on the other one:

I wonder HOW you give the advice, I guess. I have trouble with taking advice as well and this is what I have figured out about myself: I captitulated to whatever he wanted to do when he was home. ( I thought he worked hard and so I should just go along. I was not radically honest.) So there were areas that were MY domain: like homeschooling where I planned and did everything. I finally got to choose what "I" wanted to do. So when he would offer suggestions, I would get really upset because then I felt like I always had to do what he wanted to do. And yes, a lot of times his suggestions WERE better and that just made me feel worse, like I was incapable of making any decisions so I would get even more defensive or dismissive. I'm also trying to figure out with a counselor why any suggestions make me feel like a failure. Because if I make a mistake then I feel like I'm terrible.

What has worked has been the radical honesty which I'm still working on. But if I am radicallly honest about where I want us to go eat or how I want to do vacation or other areas instead of letting him win all the time, I have been much more receptive to his suggestions in other areas. I can take a deep breath and say to myself, "He doesn't think I'm a failure. He just sees this differently. He doesn't think I'm incapable. Deep breath. And then I try to look at his side and we POJA it.

Don't know if it applies, but thought it might. Now that I've read your entire thread. your tone still sounds like you think you can see some situations much better than your wife. You are determined that you are right. I can see why she would be passive agressive instead of radically honest. Your reactions ARE NOT HELPING HER TO BE RADICALLY HONEST. If I were her, I would feel like a complete failure with you...

And one more thing: GET OUT OF THE HOUSE AND HAVE FUN. I can't tell you how much better I feel now that we are doing this. It just isn't the same staying around the house. And don't have heavy conversations. Don't try to fix her. JUST HAVE FUN.

And another thing, how often do you compliment her? How much do you tell her how wonderful she is and what a good job she does? My husband wasn't and was ONLY making suggestions. I never heard how I was doing well. If I spent time cleaning the kitchen and really scrubbing something down, I thought it looked good. But then he came in and his only comment: If you used the vacuum cleaner around the spindles, then you would get the crumbs in the corner.... That made me so mad!! ( i did tell him that much later) Do you happen to do things like that?

**edit**

Disrespectful judgments work in Plan A, huh? That sure doesn't sound like what Dr. Harley says. I guess if it worked for you, great.


NG, where are you coming up with these rules? Inventing them out of whole cloth? That's definitely not the plan Dr. Harley advocates, at any step. Again, if you felt that it worked for you, great, but most of the rest of us recognize that "During the post-affair period the only words that should be coming out of a WS's mouth should be 'Yes, dear'!" describes a master-slave relationship, one that will definitely not win a wife back to a marriage.

That's the complete opposite of the way Dr. Harley says it usually works.

**edit**

Dr. Harley doesn't say that, though.