Hello everyone,
I hope this is the right forum for this.
My wife and I have both been here about a decade before.
That was when she first discovered my issues, leading to the initial blow up. A little background...

I got married early to my first wife, which was a big mistake. Both of us were too young and immature to deal with marriage, and things quickly slid downhill. The last two years (5 years total) was like living with a hostile roommate. No conversation, no sex, nothing.

I had a distorted view that divorce was a personal failure (my mother had been divorced twice), but in retrospect it would have been a great decision. The lack of sex was rough, but soon I found internet porn, and reasoned that it was better than cheating. The real problem was I was growing increasingly depressed, and my choice of porn was completely self destructive to who I thought I was. I know that the end result of this would have been suicide, there was no reconciling these things.

Eventually she cheated, and I broke out of my funk to sign divorce papers.

This space should have been the chance to clean up, and get help. My bad marriage was over, but my secret shameful compulsion remained. Unfortunately, a woman that I had always liked and respected showed interest in dating, so I made another bad choice (for her), and we went out.

She was everything my first wife was not. Intelligent, mature, thoughtful, we got along fantastically. I still had my head firmly planted in my nether regions, got no help, but expected that my "issues" would get better after my divorce. They did not.

because we got along so well, we decided to get married after dating three years. She pressured me a bit, but I wanted to, I loved her.

Things went along great, until the day she found out what was going on. It was the end of my world. I could not imagine loosing her. I went to personal therapy, then we went to marriage counseling. She found this site and vented extensively (we have agreed not to read each others posts). I felt that she was too personally offended to put up with this, and did not think we could survive, but with time and counseling we did.

Things went well for years. I watched for the triggers of my compulsion, and avoided them. No porn, no mb for 4-5 years.
unfortunately, I had still not dealt with all of my problems. My wife had helped me, introduced me to MB, and laid out a path for success in our marriage.

Late last year she had gotten sick, and we had been arguing some, I know sex was out for probably another week. I mb in the shower. I justified it because there was no porn, and she wouldn't find out. It happened a few more times earlier this year, always justifying it because we were not having sex often enough.

Last week she confronted me, and I did not lie to her. I told her that it had happened a few times. It was TEOTWAWKI all over again. We spent some time away from each other, sleeping in separate rooms. I know that I am the cause of the problems. I have hurt her repeatedly, and want to do anything to make things as right as they can be.

I am finding a cognitive therapist to help with my problems, and I am starting this dialog to help with our marriage. She says that after I am here a while, and show that I will stick with the program, she will come back when the board says it's time.

If I wasn't really committed to working through this, I would not stick around and hurt her again. She is a great woman, and I would feel better if she found someone else to make her happy, rather that screw things up a third time.

Unfortunately it seems to take a car crash to get me to pay attention. After our first blow-up, I suddenly had clarity that I lacked previously. I really got the full force of how badly I had wrecked things, and how damaged I had become.
Over a period of years I slipped back to half-*ssing my way through life, and that is why I am here now, again.

Like the last time, the crash comes with new found clarity. I made progress last time, but I slacked off after a short journey forward. I don't want to go back to drifting through life again. It's life change time, because I am in the relationship I want.

Now it's all about rebuilding trust a few grains of sand at a time. I am here, and I welcome your comments and criticisms.

Hi John, welcome to Marriage Builders. I am glad you are here.


Your wifes attitude that you have to fix this alone is a non starter. I tried to explain this to her and it fell on deaf ears. If you and your wife want to have a great marriage, you need to a) use this program and b) DO IT TOGETHER. You can't have a great marriage if it is just you alone. It will take behaviors on both your sides that complement each other.

For example, you need to spend 15-20 hours of UA time together meeting each others top 4 intimate emotional needs of affection, conversation, sexual fulfillment and recreational companionship. Doing that while avoiding lovebusters [and obviously you and your wife are NOT avoiding lovebusters if you are fighting] will meet your need for sexual fulfillment and won't make it so tempting for you to masturbate. You need HER PARTICIPATION IN ORDER TO AVOID THIS TEMPTATION, in other words.

If she is not willing to participate in the program there isn't much we can do. Will she come here and do some work?


This is a needless distraction at a time when you should be focused on your marriage. Instead of wasting valuable time at a therapist we can help you work on your marriage NOW. *IF* your wife is willing to do her part. A marriage does not work with just one person doing the work. She has to do her part too.

Will she do her part?

This is the trigger that leads to mb. Stop this and you will make it easier for you to resist the temptation. Stop arguing, start having sex on a regular basis and you won't feel so tempted, would you?

What was the argument about? And how often does this happen?

What was your wife's posting name?

WE need you BOTH to start sticking to the program TODAY. I say today is that day. The sooner you start working on your marriage, the sooner you will be in recovery.

And where I would suggest you both start this week is here:

Lovebusters - the first 5 chapters that addresses angry outbursts and fighting. Read the chapters and answer the questions at the end of each chapter. It is a good idea for you to have 2 copies, one for her and one for you. You each go through the chapter and highlight things that stand out to you. You use a yellow highlighter in your book and she uses a pink one. When you do the lessons, exchange the books so you can see and discuss what stood out to the other.

Five Steps to Romantic Love workbook - do the worksheets in the book that relate to Lovebusters

Tear out the undivided attention worksheet in the back of the workbook and make copies. Sit down and schedule out 20+ hours of undivided attention time for the week. This time should be spent alone, preferably out on dates, meeting the top 4 intimate emotional needs of conversation, affection, RC and SF.

These will be the first steps. When you are done with Lovebusters, I would move onto His Needs, Her Needs and follow the guidelines in the workbook.

The goal is to cease your fighting NOW and start spending as much time as possible together meeting each others ENs.

It is Drucilla aka BrendaEllen. She has been on the board about 10 years.

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2722698#Post2722698

She had explained your position on this.

All this came to a head last week, I think she need a little time.
We spend a tremendous amount of time together, since we work together, and share the same hobbies and pastimes. We are basically joined at the hip, because of the rarity friends comment when we are seen alone. Granted work is hardly quality time, but we really have fun together when we are off.

I can't really remember what the minor argument was about. When I am not focused, I can forget things. Likely something I missed.

I will talk to her about spending time on the top 4 emotional needs, sex is probably out for a while, but after this there is NO temptation.

Don't really remember what the problem at the time was, minor issue.

The real problem is that I have a doctorate in conflict avoidance, and conflict avoiders are fundamentally not honest people. That is one of my problems that I am getting help dealing with.
being honest, and having a little argument from time to time, is infinitely better than the head-on car crash of being found out after lying and denying.

Here is the thing to understand, John. Just being together is not the same as meeting each others intimate emotional needs. In order to have any effect, you must be meeting your intimate emotional needs. It is best to do this out on DATES. Four - four hour dates are the most impactful way to do this because there is a much different attitude when you are out on a date versus at work or sitting at home on the couch when you are exhausted. Get dressed up, put on some nice cologne and go out for the night. Another great way to make lovebank deposits is to exercise together. Would either of you be interested in joining a gym?



Well, it will be a temptation if she is not meeting your need for SF. It is real important that you identify the conditions that led to your mb so you can eliminate it. And punishing you by withholding SF is not going to resolve the problem, it will make it WORSE.

Again, marriage is a 2 way street. And if she won't contribute her part there is very little you can do.

Gotcha. One of the first steps in changing this is to admit HONESTLY the triggers that lead to mb. Saying that you won't be tempted in the future is not honest. And it is not even remotely credible when there is no plan to eliminate the temptations. Your wife has to admit and accept that not meeting your need for SF is one of those conditions.

She has an obligation to meet your needs in marriage, just as you have an obligation to protect her from your hurtful independent behavior. The two things go hand in hand.

Holdherhand posted this to your wife's thread and I think it has a lot of relevance here. When a person is punished for telling the truth, they stop telling the truth:

here

In your case, you are not only punished for telling the truth, but you and your wife are avoiding the reasons that tempt you to mb. Until those reasons are addressed and resolved, this will remain a problem.

Your side of this is to tell your wife when you are tempted so you can work together to remove those conditions. It's fine to make a commitment to not do it again, but that commitment is worthless unless there is a plan to remove the temptation.

Thank you for completing the loop, Mel.

This is a VERY relevant article in this situation from what I've read on both threads.

Our understanding after the last incident, was to set up a safety net of sorts.
If I was tempted, I was to discuss it with her. If I didn't discuss it with her, find a counselor to speak with. If it was after the fact, same thing. The key was for me to bring it up, and not have it found out after the fact. Admitting afterwards while not lying about it, was not part of this program.

When we first got together, we had the best sex of our lives. This suffered after the first discovery. She later said that she was tired of initiating sex, and it would be on me for a while.
I was poor at getting my needs addressed (our needs), and our sex life regressed again. I have initiated sex afterwards, and she will on occasion, but it is a shadow of what we had.

I have explained to her that when she rarely initiates, it seems like I am the only one interested. It's almost like a 1950's wifely duty, as opposed to something beautiful that we were both so enthusiastic about. It is still enjoyable, but more of a routine, devoid of spontaneity. It meets both of our minimum needs, but that's about it.

This mechanical routine is a turn off for me, that makes it easier to just to watch mindless TV instead of connecting.

My problems have damaged her, and she is metaphorically waiting on the sidelines for me to get me act together, or at least show that I am willing to stay the course.

We went out to dinner last night to celebrate our 13th anniversary. Tough to celebrate, but she is really making an effort to talk and not withdraw. Her engagement makes it easier for me to stay focused and keep moving it forward. It gives me hope for the future.

She�s not enthusiastic about spontaneity. Are you saying you aren�t enthusiastic with it being scheduled and part of a routine? Seems you have your predetermined expectation of SF. If it isn�t spontaneous it appears it doesn�t count. Wow. That�s gotta be hard for her to hear. That is something you�ll want to discuss openly with her and negotiate for a better solution. She shouldn�t be providing SF if it isn�t a LB deposit.

I used to think it had to be spontaneous too. Trouble is my W doesn�t always like it to be that way. She likes it to be somewhat planned. Maybe not days in advance but at least a half of a day or so. So it is. I find comfort and love in the �moment� (I get what I need because she loves me) and she gets the comfort of it being planned.

John, the key to resolving this is to follow the path I outlined above. Start scheduling dates and end those nights with SF. Spending quality UA time will help her fall back in love and feel like making love. Scheduling SF brings excitement, removes uncertainty and ensures you are both getting your needs met.

That is a better plan against masturbation than what you were doing, wouldn't you agree?

You have both damaged each other via lovebusting and a failure to meet each others ENs. You are both at fault. But finding fault is not productive; finding solutions is productive.

It also removes the burden of initiating from both of you. Problem solved.

Yep!

"When we first got together, we had the best sex of our lives. This suffered after the first discovery. She later said that she was tired of initiating sex, and it would be on me for a while. I was poor at getting my needs addressed (our needs), and our sex life regressed again. I have initiated sex afterwards, and she will on occasion, but it is a shadow of what we had."

1. So just to be clear, who does the rejecting?

2. When following the previous advice to schedule SF on each date, make sure to PLAN which person will initiate. You need to explain to each other how you would like the initiating to be.

3. Keep track of UA hrs. AND SF initiation count for each of you.

We have been discussing our lack of exercise, and she has agreed to spend some times walking with the dog and I in the hills above our house, and I will do some yoga with her.

Dating is a good idea, so we will start getting some planned UA time this week.

I have taken notes on the workbook exercises and we will start tonight.

Sex on the other hand will have to wait. She wants a 30 day moratorium, and I have agreed. I WILL survive 3 more weeks without a slip-up, and hopefully we can get our SF going after that.