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Dont know yet. His GPS changed the house number 3 times. Car was in a garage with no windows. She never cam outside. Try again tomorrow
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Hopefully the PI gets the goods tomorrow. Guess he doesn't do all night stakeouts.
Me BW: 30
WH: 33
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Oh, get creative, dammit!
Have the PI with camera ready outside OM's house. Call WW's cell and tell her your house is on fire (or something similar that can't be refuted by phone). Have the PI snap her as she leaves in a panic.
Simple. Done!
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She came home last night. Says she is going to stay. Not sure if she wants to work it out. Doesn't know if the changes i have made will last. I will continue to have the PI follow-up.
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She came home last night. Says she is going to stay. Not sure if she wants to work it out. Doesn't know if the changes i have made will last. I will continue to have the PI follow-up. The PI can't run the address of the townhome she was at? Is this guy a dimwit?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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She came home last night. Says she is going to stay. Not sure if she wants to work it out. Doesn't know if the changes i have made will last. I will continue to have the PI follow-up. The fact that she is home is a great sign! This is the perfect time to make 100% sure that the changes you are promising are completley fulfilled.--Prove it to her. By her being home, this is an excellent opportunity to WOO her back. Make the best of it. If you can date her again like when you first met (fill as many EN's as you can, NO LB's) you may just be able to win her heart back. Come here to vent. Not with her. All the investigation can be done in the background while on the home front you are as attractive as you can possibly be. No neediness!
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My FWW was also very skeptical of my changes. Rightly so. I was guilty of LB�s. Remember it took a long time for her to fall out of love with you and will take a long time for those feelings to return.
Feelings follow actions.
This is where self improvement (cleaning up your side of the fence) is so important. You win no matter the outcome here.
It took day after day after day of being with her to prove I had changed. She had valid complaint pre-A.
Even if your WW is still involved with POSOM, you have a window of opportunity to make LB deposits. Many BS�s on this board would probably give their right arm for their WS to be back in the house.
If you can just have fun, take interest in her and what she is doing�or reading or anything, you can give your M a chance for R.
Last edited by 20YearHistory; 05/09/13 09:42 AM.
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When the time is right, maybe you can approach her by saying that you want to create an amazing M with her in which both of you are happy.
"if there was a possibility that we could have a fantastic M together in which both of us were fulfilled and happy, and completely in love�would you want that with me? If yes, I have found a program (MB) that can do just that. It teaches how both spouses have all their EN's fulfilled, always take each other�s feelings into consideration, never hurt each other and creates long-term romantic love. If you are willing, I would love to create this with you".
See, she has to think there is a possiblity for you to have a great M. Most likely she doesn't think that is possible.
This is where MB is so powerful.
Do you have SAA and LB's?
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This may shed some light on her state of mind.
Basic Concept #8: The Three States of Mind in Marriage
The Giver and Taker create moods that I call states of mind. These states of mind have a tremendous influence on the way a husband and wife try to resolve conflicts. But in each of the three states of mind, negotiation is almost impossible. That's what makes negotiation, in general, so tough in marriage.
When we are in love and happy, we are usually in the State of Intimacy. That state of mind is controlled by the Giver, which encourages us to follow the Giver's rule: do whatever you can to make your spouse happy and avoid anything that makes your spouse unhappy, even if it makes you unhappy. That rule can lead to habits that may be good for our spouse, but can be disastrous for us because we are not negotiating with our own interests in mind.
Sadly, flawed agreements made in the state of Intimacy can lead to our own unhappiness, and that in turn wakes the slumbering Taker. As long as we are happy, our Taker has nothing to do, but when we start feeling unhappy, our Taker rises to our rescue and triggers the State of Conflict. With the Taker now in charge, we are encouraged to follow the rule: do whatever you can to make yourself happy, and avoid anything that makes yourself unhappy, even if it makes others unhappy. The Taker also encourages us to be demanding, disrespectful and angry in an effort to force our spouse to make us happy. Fighting is the Taker's favorite "negotiating" strategy.
When fighting doesn't work, and we are still unhappy, the Taker encourages us to take a new course of action that triggers the State of Withdrawal. Instead of trying to force our spouse to make us happy, our Taker wants us to give up on our spouse entirely. We don't want our spouse to do anything for us, and we certainly don't want to do anything for our spouse. In this state of mind we are emotionally divorced.
How can couples work their way back to the state of Intimacy once they find themselves trapped in the state of Withdrawal? And once they are back, how can they stay there? The answers to those questions are found in Basic Concept #9.
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"It took day after day after day of being with her to prove I had changed. She had valid complaint pre-A."
I just want to point out that is real important to not take the complaints of a wayward too seriously while they are in the fog. Almost all WSs manufacture grievances and rewrite history to jusitfy the affair. While some grievances may be legitimate, most are not. This is why the main focus needs to be on killing the affair so the fog is killed. Once the fog is killed, a rational survey of the problems of the past can be made.
All the BS can do while there is an affair is avoid Lovebusters, promise to meet needs in the future and focus on killing the affair. But it must be understood that serious discussions about the state if the marriage is somewhat premature when a person is fogged out. Not to mention that when the affair is active, the lovebank is closed. Plan A means expressing a willingness to meet the spouses needs.
Your wife will not ever be open to that until you have killed the affair.
In this posters case, he is an alcoholic so there is a lot of cleaning up to be done. In many cases, though, the affair was the result of poor boundaries and NOT unmet needs. It cannot be assumed that all affairs are caused by unmet needs. More often it is both.
Ranger, I would suggest you focus mainly on killing this affair while avoiding Lovebusters. I agree you should paint a picture to your wife of a happy marriage where you meet each others needs, but that will not get your wife back. Your wife will not ever be open to that until you have killed the affair.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Your wife will not ever be open to that until you have killed the affair. Valid point. In most cases this could be the reality. However, in my experience this did not hold true. My FWW fell back in love with me while she was still in contact with POSOM. Basically, I won the competition.
Last edited by 20YearHistory; 05/09/13 10:50 AM.
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Your wife will not ever be open to that until you have killed the affair. Valid point. In most cases this could be the reality. However, in my experience this did not hold true. My FWW fell back in love with me while she was still in contact with POSOM. Basically, I won the competition. That may have happened as her affair was crumbling because a woman is only in love with one person at a time. When she is in love with an OM, her lovebank is closed to her husband. This is why it is so essential to focus on killing the affair so that the BH CAN woo her back. When a WS is in the fog, they typically exaggerate the problems in the pre-affair marriage so it is hard to really know fact from fiction. Their complaints have to be judged against reality. I agree with you that the goal is to woo her back but his efforts will be much more effective after the affair is exposed and killed. Let me put this another way. A WS is under the influence of an affair much like an alcoholic is under the influence of alcohol. A fogged out wayward has the mentality of a falling down drunk. If you want to reach an alcoholic, the first step is to separate them from the alcohol and sober them up. This is why it is so key to kill the affair as quickly as possible.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Your wife will not ever be open to that until you have killed the affair. Valid point. In most cases this could be the reality. However, in my experience this did not hold true. My FWW fell back in love with me while she was still in contact with POSOM. Basically, I won the competition. That may have happened as her affair was crumbling because a woman is only in love with one person at a time. When she is in love with an OM, her lovebank is closed to her husband. This is why it is so essential to focus on killing the affair so that the BH CAN woo her back. When a WS is in the fog, they typically exaggerate the problems in the pre-affair marriage so it is hard to really know fact from fiction. Their complaints have to be judged against reality. I agree with you that the goal is to woo her back but his efforts will be much more effective after the affair is exposed and killed. Let me put this another way. A WS is under the influence of an affair much like an alcoholic is under the influence of alcohol. A fogged out wayward has the mentality of a falling down drunk. If you want to reach an alcoholic, the first step is to separate them from the alcohol and sober them up. This is why it is so key to kill the affair as quickly as possible. Looking back, my road may have been much easier if I would have put the effort into killing the A/ensuring they were not in contact as you are encouraging this poster to do. Ranger-Even if your WW tells you that contact has ended, please do not believe a word out of her mouth. Kill it, and only believe what you can see with your own eyes.
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I hope this story serves as a warning for anyone starting recovery.
To start, I did not have this forum to guide me. I was reading some of the good Dr�s writings but at that time did not incorporate it into my life. How I wish I could turn back time�. Leading up to dday, I had suspicions for months. I completely cleared up my side of the fence (which was mainly LB�s) and I am very proud of the person I became. Snooping did the job and the A was revealed.
Quick summary. Married 14yrs, DD5 DS 7. FWW had 9 mo EA/PA with POSOM. Started on FB. Dday was March 2011. Upon discovery, kicked her out of the house that night. Never in a million years did I consider the possibility of reconciliation.
One week later, FWW wanted to work things out and my conditions were simple. 1)Never lie to me ever again. 2)No contact with OM for life. She agreed. (how na�ve I was�) She agreed and we stared to think about working things out.
We had no plan at that time. She got an apartment and we started spending time together. I was putting in everything I had to show her the person I was becoming (Plan A). My participation was solely based on the 2 above agreed upon items.
We plotted along for several months and every time I asked if there had been any contact, I got a murky response which was never clear. But, somehow I believed her (stupid me). I had no ability to snoop on her work computer and wanted to believe her so bad that I continued to Plan A like a rock star. At the time, I didn�t think about Plan A, I was just being genuinely me..a kind and generous person.
So, time went along. We began to spend more and more time together. As time went along, I wasn�t getting a firm commitment to recovery from her. I was more a feeling that �let�s see how things go�.
Fast forward to January 2012. Upon snooping and questioning of several things, I discovered they had secretly set up email accounts and had been communicating the entire time. The A had never ended. They had 2 secret rendezvous at a public restaurant. One in June 2011 and one in July 2011.
I had been lied to continuously for another 9 months. FR. Needless to say, I was devastated. Didn�t think she would ever stop lying to me and at that point it was over for me. My chips were cashed in. Done. Done. Done. Told her we would be divorcing and that was that.
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on ME.
What was actually happening during this 9mo time, is that she was indeed falling back in love with me (by some crazy miracle). When I called for D, this shook her back into reality as she now really saw how special our family is.
The reality of being lied to during our FR was more devastating than the A itself. I was completely beheaded and it completely drained her LB account for me. My love for her was gone. I had no desire to continue with this marriage at all.
Then, by the grace of God, she GOT IT. We have taken MB�s and fully incorporated them into our M. MB is the only thing that is saving us.
Now, what is the moral of the story? Listen to the vets on this site. Follow MB to the tee. I really believe that if I would have had MB, we could have avoided a FR. Please read. False Recovery-Need Voices of Experience
FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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She has been home for the past 2 nights. Casual and calm conversations. Hug and kiss her a few times a day. Told her I loved her this morning and she slipped and said it too. Then I told her I caught her and that she still loves me. She smiled. She took her wedding ring off though. Noticed that a few days ago. I confronted her. Asked her if she thought she was single again but reminded her she was still married. She said no one notices and I don't feel like wearing it right now. The weekend is here, so see what happens tonight and if she comes home again or runs to the OM. PI is on standby until she leaves. Just bought a VAR and will place it in her car later today. I know she is texting in secret, but no way to verify. Password protected phone.
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Just listened to my first recording. What a bombshell! Talking about the sex they have, how special he is to her, leaving me in weeks. He is pushing her hard, I could hear her say, I can't tell him that, your mean, etc.. He even played the card of threatining to take a job transfer out of state to push her to leave me. He wants her to move in or her to get an apartment. Yesterday we had lunch together, walked and held hands, kissed, hugged. There has to be something left inside her to save this. Or is she just trying to be niceuntil she leaves? She tells him that I keep asking if she is coming home, want to go out, etc., That I may take it the wrong way that she is staying at home for now. She also said she needs to be more direct with me and tell me to back off. To my face, the opposite. He sounds like he is out of town. PI will continue when we are sure he returns. Trying to keep my cool and sanity. That just knocked me down to hear that. She is being so secretive.
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She has been home for the past 2 nights. Casual and calm conversations. Hug and kiss her a few times a day. Told her I loved her this morning and she slipped and said it too. Then I told her I caught her and that she still loves me. She smiled. She took her wedding ring off though. Noticed that a few days ago. I confronted her. Asked her if she thought she was single again but reminded her she was still married. She said no one notices and I don't feel like wearing it right now. The weekend is here, so see what happens tonight and if she comes home again or runs to the OM. PI is on standby until she leaves. Just bought a VAR and will place it in her car later today. I know she is texting in secret, but no way to verify. Password protected phone. DON'T DO THAT! Reminding her she is still married, and inquiring about the ring are OK, but don't draw extra attention to her "slips." Right now, she'll turn it against you; "He's trying to manipulate/control me." Rather, let her say it... continue on as if either she hadn't, or if it is expected. Let her catch herself and have to stew on it. Your Plan A should have her questioning the validity of her actions in the affair.
"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr
"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer
"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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The PI can find out who it is by running the addresses she stayed at the other night. Has he done that??? If he hasn't, then you can google the addresses yourself and find out who lives there.
You need a name!!! You need a background check!
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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He didn't narrow it down. His GPS broght him within 4 townhomes, but car was in a garage. He left before she pulled out. I put my GPS in the car. So next time she leaves, I can see it tracked online as well. Mine brings it within 2 houses. Next time she visits him, we will know the name. I have a list already of everyone that lives on that section.
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Do you know the names of the people in those 2 houses? Have you searched them to see where they work?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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