I'm one month shy of being married 23 years. We have two boys, 22 and 19.

We got married VERY young, and as the numbers above show, got started with children right away. My wife and I never really had the time to come to together properly before life tore us apart. I went back to school full-time and worked full-time. 16 hours a day. Wife was left at home with a newborn. Before I even got out of school, I got a job that allowed us to buy a decent sized home, but it was second shift. I went back to school for a 4 year degree, which eventually did wonders for our finances, but watching old home videos you can see the negative progression of both our demeanors.

Only a few years after we were married, she was having sexual phone conversations with a man who was supposed to be my friend. Then she went to work at a gym selling memberships, while I worked second shift. After work she would go to bars, and even a strip joint to watch one of her male "friends" strip. She was starting to build her own world.

After I finished the 4-year degree, we moved to a larger city for a better job, and the big house she had been begging for. But she got a job at a gym there, and continued to pull away. That was 15 years ago that she started down the road of withdrawal. She would go out bar hopping til 4am with her gym friends, leaving me at home with the kids. I'd sit and get drunk alone, trying to drown the shame, embarassment and feeling of betrayal. I showed up at a party the gym was throwing one time, and there she was sitting on some strangers lap.

I was a fool to allow it to go on. I was an even bigger fool to get us involved in swinging. Her biggest EN is physical appearance, and it was what drew her to me in the first place. Mine is sexual gratification. I got fat working 16 hour days for years on end (go figure), and she no longer had the desire to meet my needs. How could she? I wasn't meeting hers. If I couldn't get it from her, I'd find someone who would like to be with me, but at least we'd be together doing it, so that would make it ok. The worst lies are the ones you tell yourself. We were with a few couples, but it all came crashing to a halt for me when she left the young children sleeping at home to come to a party where I was. She's a loving mother, but she came to get her man is how I saw it. I had no interest in that lifestyle after that, and I don't think she ever did. It meant that she was limited by me.

We moved to a different suburb just after that, and I lost my job. She was selling real-estate by this point. I was planning a birthday party for her, when I found her email to her lover, a single male that she had been showing houses two for 6 months. I remember the first time she showed him houses, because she was out to 11pm having drinks with him. The day of the tryst, she dressed up in her sexiest red dress, kissed me, told me she loved me and then betrayed me. Two weeks before that she had convinced me to take the boys on a last minute camping trip, on a night with record low temperatures. I was to find out that it was a ploy to get rid of me so that she could see him.

I cried for days. She stopped going out partying. I thought it was because we were in the new town. She tells me now that she gave it up for me. But, we weren't happy. I worked crappy jobs, and did the things I liked to do. She wouldn't have anything to do with them. She stayed in her gym world, and did everything she could to keep me out of it. I lost weight, and got certified to teach aerobic classes, but she wouldn't let me near her emotionally.

I got fat again. And then I got fatter. I begged her to be with me, but she wanted nothing to do with me. Sex was used by her as tool to manipulate me when she wanted something. I eventually didn't want it from her. Better to watch porn on the internet and imagine that someone wanted to be with me, than to pay the prices she asked to be treated to a surly face and listen to the complaints.

Last fall, I decided I had had enough. I would either have a real marriage, or none at all. That started a cascade of convoluted revelations, false starts at divorces and other situations. She eventually admitted she had had a physical affair three years ago, which she says she broke off after the first sex session. The guilt didn't suit her or allow her to get any pleasure out of it, and the guy basically used her for several hours. It was all fine while they were "boxing" at the gym or making out in the park, but lying in his filthy bed where he raised dogs was to much for her, I guess. It was another gym instructor. Then there were dirty pictures sent to another gym guy. By Christmas, she was worried that she had AIDS, (the guy she had given herself to was a rake) and was in emotional turmoil. I got to hold her literally shaking hands while they drew blood an we waited for test results.

During all this turmoil, she met another guy at a bar, and decided to open a business with him. We had made plans to open fitness studio together, but she took the equipment bought with money I earned, and used it with some other guy. I helped as much as I could initially, but the sense of betrayal continued to grow to the point that I couldn't stand it anymore, and have decided to stay away from the place. She has recently talked about "dreams" of being a fitness competitor. She was in a competition last year, and the first thing I learned when I walked in was that she had stripped naked so some strange guy could airbrush her with tanning solution. Then she was upset that I'm not happy about "fitness competitions" where she struts around on stage mostly naked for the men she puts me in competition with. She says it isn't sexual, but can't explain the hooker heels or fake fingernails.

That brings us to today. Everything has been admitted, except for all the stuff she says she can't remember, or doesn't want to tell me because I'll "use against her." There is current no affair that I know of to expose. I've been reading this website for a couple weeks, and last week was the first in months where we didn't have a single argument (thank you, MB) But over the weekend, she tells me that she is trying to get a male friend who owns a boxing training studio to come give her free lessons so she could teach it at her gym. I took issue with that. It is not appropriate for a male business competitor to come give her personal, 1-on-1 lessons. She says she has known him for 10 years, but I've only seen him a few times. She eventually relented, and said I had a point, but....DUH!? (I'm sorry. That's disrespectful, isn't it?)

But, it bothered me. She obviously has no concept of boundaries, and after all this turmoil, she is unwilling to recognize how affairs work. So, I found examples of EP rules and asked her to negotiate with me. She said she would NOT agree to them, and would in fact show them to a counselor to demonstrate what a control freak I was. For your elucidation, I pasted what I sent and her response below. There was a big, one-sided argument, where she yelled at me a lot, and she has now moved in with a single female friend who is very promiscuous. She says she won't come back until after she has talked to a counselor, scheduled for over two weeks from now.

My question is, "What should I do now?" I don't see a point in exposing all this, but I find the continued behavior totally unacceptable. The unwillingness to even discuss how we might set up a framework of trust makes me wonder what she is trying to hide. I find the control argument specious at best, and as dishonest as calling me crazy when I originally raised suspicions about these multiple affairs. She would actually tell me what great and upstanding characters her partners were in gushing terms. ( "He's a policeman on the vice squad, and he tackles and beats up the bad guys." And for the other guy, "He's a thug but he's got a good character, because he took a bullet for a friend when a drug deal went bad.")

She will have conversations with me through text messages, but that is about it for now. I'm thinking I should wait to let her see the counselor and hope they recommend she agree to the rules (the counselor does have a link to MB on their website). If the counselor doesn't recommend that, I think I should demand she agree before I let her come home. She doesn't realize it, but all the arguments we've had have been due to her selfish, inconsiderate behavior. She has her own world, and I've allowed that to work pretty well for her. She has been able to go and do whomsoever she pleased, but it has been at a terrible price for me. I don't think I should put up with it anymore, but I love this woman.

Somebody please help me.



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The rules are:

A)I will protect my spouse and their feelings above all else.
B) I will not participate in any one-on-one meetings with anyone of the opposite sex that does not involve them sweating profusely (sorry, had to give you an exception to be able to work)
C) I will not discuss my personal marriage issues with anyone of the opposite sex.
D) I will not attend clubs, strip joints, or any such establishment without my spouse.
E) I agree to use Policy of Joint Agreement as a basis for all decisions.
F) I will be open and honest with my spouse at all times about the past and present.
G) I will provide my spouse a daily schedule of all appointments and contact information.
H) If I need to make an adjustment to my schedule, I will notify my spouse of the change immediately.
I) I will make my spouse�s phone calls my highest priority by answering them or returning them immediately.
J) I will make my spouse privy to all social media outlets.
K) I will trade phones with my spouse at any time they request, NO questions asked.
L) I will leave my phone accessible to my spouse at night/or anytime I�m home.
M) I will commit to at least 15 hours of undivided attention with my spouse to meet each other�s Emotional Needs every week. A journal, complete with pictures will be kept to document our happy time together.
N) If affair partner finds a way to make contact, I will immediately end the contact and notify my spouse about it immediately after.
O) I will install a keylogger, GPS, or any other tracking system my spouse may request.
P) Anytime I have the thought, �I don�t want my spouse to know about��.�, I will call my spouse immediately and tell them my thoughts.
Q) I will be accountable for my time 100% of the time. I will forego any expectation of privacy.
R) I will not spend any nights away from my spouse. Video conferencing can be used to be together for purposes of this rule.
S) I will participate in the Marriage Builder's program, and discuss the concepts with my spouse on a daily basis.


The proposal is:

I agree without reservation to follow the above rules for a two week trial period, beginning on _____________________ and ending on _________________. At the end of the two week trial period, I will have a discussion with my spouse detailing how the rules worked, how I felt about them, and whether our marriage is more or less happy. At that time, I will propose any changes that I feel should be made, and upon reaching a negotiated agreement, will agree to a two week trial under the new rules. I will only agree to a permanent application of the rules if I am enthusiastic about following them.


I'd like you to consider each of the rules. Think about what it means to you, what it means to me, and what it would mean to our marriage. I do not think these are rules that we would need to live under forever. Most affair recoveries take 2-5 years. Currently, they are extraordinarily restrictive, because we have some extraordinary pain to repair, on both sides. But, I can't imagine we would have had the past 9 months of hell if we had followed them after the first affair. Or even better, when we got married.

Call me at work to discuss them if that would make you feel safer. I'll take all the time we need. I love you, and I want us to live together without angst, pain, and arguments. My desire right now is to come to a resolution on what the rules should be, and sign an actual contract tonight.
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Her response was:

Just exasperated. I will not agree to this. However, I will take it to the counselor and discuss it to see if giving someone who has control issues even more control is sane. If they think I should then I will comply!!!!! (and yes I'll give them all the affair history. Yours as well) but I see this as an alcoholic manipulating things in order to get even more alcohol. However I could be wrong but I'll leave that to a professional to decide instead of you or I

Can you please condense this down to 3 paragraphs? This is way too much information to read through just to get the point. We don't need the long back story, just the current situation along with past infidelities. Tanks.

Shotgun, based on her responses, there is a very large chance she is currently in an affair. Your EP list would hinder that affair. You have a tough road, since recvery would most likely mean she would have to give up the gym.

My fww was starting to train for competition too, she liked the attention she was getting and started affair with a POSOM she met at gym who was 20 years older than her. But he knew what to say to make her feel good. She no longer goes to the gym. The gym is the absolute worst place for someone with poor boundaries.

Does she have an iphone, and if so do you have access to computer it was backed up to? If so the operation investigate forum has links to programs so you can pull up deleted text messages, deleted photos that were sent, etc.

Shotgun,

I don't see a point in exposing all this, but I find the continued behavior totally unacceptable.

So these decades of horrifying behavior, which has left you trembling at home, has no consequences? And since there are no consequences your WW will continue in this behavior, because she thinks you don't have the guts to act! You have the power to change your future.

I would track down every one of the wives and girl-friends, family and co-workers whos partners were involved with your WW, and tell them what happened. That cop needs to be off the force.

Your children need to be told as well and your WWs family etc.

God Bless
Gamma

Agree with Gamma. Are you an active alcoholic? Are you seeking treatment?

Fortunately, not. Those nights were an aberration. Just needed something to dull the pain.

Shotgun, I don't have time to read this overly long post but I will take the time to address this agreement.


Your marriage won't be happier or sadder because none of those items create happiness in marriage. What creates a happy marriage is an intimate relationship. Those items will protect your marriage when you are together but they won't make you happy.

People buy things unless there is a perceived benefit. What is her benefit here? That is what you need to think about. Do a better job of selling her the MB and you might have a chance.

The payoff should be to have a romantic, passionate marriage with you. That is not offered as a benefit nor is there a plan to achieve that. Even if you did sell your plan with that offered benefit, it takes much longer than 2 weeks to restore romantic love to your marriage. About 8 weeks to 3 months.


Like Dr Harley says, extraordinary precautions are not negotiable. It doesn't matter if you are enthusiastic or not. That is because you and your wife can "negotiate" anything you like. It doesn't mean it will be good for your marriage. For example, my H and I can negotiate smoking Marlboros, but it doesn't mean smoking is healthy.



They are not restrictive at all if you want a happy marriage. You would only live under those rules as long as you want a happy marriage. If you don't want that, then you can break all the rules and have what you have now: misery.

It is like smoking. It might feel "restrictive" to quit smoking but the payoff is so beneficial that I never miss smoking 4 packs a day. It is the same with extraordinary precautions. If you create a happy, passionate marriage, the rules don't feel restrictive, they feel THERAPEUTIC.

Hopefully your counselor understands Marriage Builders and help you with this program.

Gamma, help me out here. You don't see a point in exposing it, but then you say to tell everybody. Are you saying that I should only spread part of the history? My problem with exposure is whether it is just shaming her for retribution. That sort of vindictiveness would HAVE to be a LoveBuster, wouldn't it?

MelodyLane, I'm sorry for the long post. Writing is theraputic for me. I hope it was not required reading for you. I do thank you for your response. I found it very educational. I'm not a salesman. I'm an engineer. But, I think I can do this.

I drove over to where she is staying after I read several of the responses. Wanted to see for myself what was going on. She promised me that it was just work and back there. She wasn't going our or seeing anyone. When I came back home, I noticed all of her high heel shoes were gone. She said she took everything she might need, because she didn't want to come back and risk a confrontation with me.

I think my response should simply be that I'm not doing this anymore. If she wants an intimate marriage with me, she can come home and do it. But, I'm not going to play these games any longer. She can be married to me, or she can be the bell of the ball. She can't be both.

SG, he was responding to your quote that said you don't see a point in exposing it. He advised that you tell everyone. And you shouldn't do it for "retribution" but in order to save your marriage. Exposure is the best weapon you have against the affair and it should be your first step. Your wife should be ashamed of having an affair, so don't worry about that. Please go read the exposure thread in my signature.


You can tell her you aren't going to do this anymore and that is your prerogative. No one would fault you. But she does not want an intimate marriage with you now because of her affair. If you want to bring her to a place where she would consider a marriage, I would strongly suggest you expose her affair wide and far.

People should be ashamed about being bad. That is a sign she has a conscience. If she doesn't feel ashamed, then she is probably a sociopath, which is another problem entirely.

Shotgun,

Sorry I didn't make it more clear that I was quoting you.

Given the extreme cruelty of your WW towards you for your entire marriage, I can't imagine how any exposure could be seen as vindictive.

The other point of exposure is that you no longer have to suffer in silence. My guess would be that except for this forum, there is no one, or few, who give you any emotional support. Exposure eliminates the reverse punishment where the betrayed suffers while the betrayer goes about their life without a care!

God Bless
Gamma