Dad, I'm working with HelpForMom. I've got a couple of questions for you.

Let's talk about your night last night. Watch any good movies?

Wow, I'm reading helpformom's thread and picking up on an obstacle that will make recovery impossible: angry outbursts.

If you aren't enjoying an experience, just say so, calmly and simply. There's no need to have an angry outburst to show how serious it is or how strongly you feel about it. Express your lack of enthusiasm and then pick something else to do that you are both enthusiastic about.

Let me encourage you to take this problem seriously, NOW. You shouldn't be behaving in a way that your wife perceives as an angry outburst, period. Here is what Dr. Harley has to say:


http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2643787#Post2643787


http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2703558#Post2703558


http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2715723#Post2715723

Thanks, markos. That's the direction in which I was headed. Pay heed to markos, Dad. He knows what he's talking about.

Dad, make no mistake: I was the Queen of AO's right after D-Day. I know how a trigger can be, and I could give you a little wiggle room for mishandling a situation right after D-Day. But you, sir, are too far out from D-Day to be blowing up about something that neither of you even saw coming. Add that to the fact that you have had MB counselling with Steve and should know the hazard of AO's by now. AO's can sap a love bank faster than you can say "lovebuster."

Have you talked with your wife about how to handle similar situations in the future? I would sit down with her and discuss this, right after you apologize for your outburst. Triggers should be avoided, but, as you've learned, they can blindside you when you least expect it. Equip yourself now with the tools you need for those times so you can handle them if they come.

I'd like to hear your thoughts on what happened. I look forward to reading your post. I want to talk to you about your sleeping habits when you have a minute, as well.

And may I say: I'm hoping your slowness to respond is because today is Mom's day. I hope you're spending Mother's Day with Mom and the kids, and just can't get online because you're so busy with family stuff.

Am I right, or are you avoiding us?

Hello, all.

First, you are correct -- there can be no place for AOs in this marriage. I do have them still once in awhile..less frequent, less intense.

Most of the time I think it occurs because I'm not feeling safe or protected by HFM -- and maybe it's unfair, but part of me feels that it is her EXTRA responsibility to do so.

So, when we rent the movie -- Silver Linings Playbook -- and an affair is partly central to the storyline, I really don't have an interest in the movie from there on out...and then I feel that HFM is bothered because I'm now upset by the movie...and I'm thinking why is she NOT changing it/shutting it off? Why would she WANT to keep watching it? Why doesn't she just KNOW that I am now NOT interested in the movie???

And my mind starts to race and become unhinged and I probably fall back to bad habits rather than being more assertive or proactive in communicating the right way what's going on.

And I have reflected on this, generally, and as wrong as this is, I suspect there's some part of my head that's so traumatized by all of it, and still has so many doubts about it all, that I wonder if I've learned as some crazy defense mechanism that it's my "right"...that after all of this I'm "allowed" to get upset and angry at times because of how HFM hurt me?

I wish there were some strategies that could be suggested for HFM to help ME diffuse any AOs, only because I feel sometimes she sees it ratcheting it up before I do, and I need her help.

I can tell you and your wife are not using this program and I am very concerned about you. This is going to get worse, I promise you. Since do-it-yourself has not worked, I would strongly urge you to get professional help. You are not too traumatized. We have couples here where the BS has actual post traumatic stress disorder from false recoveries and by using this program, they have a happy, passionate marriage.

If you don't create a happy marriage, your mind will constantly go to the past and resentment will grow year after year.

So I am not going to tell you to polish off your AO's, I am going to tell you that you and your wife need a COMPLETE overhaul with professional guidance. You have been messing around with this far, far too long.

When the present is not happy, the mind wanders to the tragedies of the PAST. That is where you and your wife are now.

Okay, but Marriage Builders insists you need to eliminate these love busters. Not just diminish them in frequency and intensity - eliminate.

Did you read the quotes from Dr. Harley that I posted? Angry Outbursts are a serious enough thing that there can be no excuse made for keeping them around, if you want to have a good marriage.


Wow. I'm kind of taken aback, there. That is not the reason why you have angry outbursts.

I'd like to see you please research and learn the correct answer to the question "Why do I have angry outbursts?" You need to know this, or you might as well give up now.


Okay, this is all just disrespectful judgment. And it's the classic type: "Why doesn't my spouse know what I want? My spouse should know this; it should have been obvious."

Usually I think we men take women to task for wanting us to read their minds, but it's just as wrong when the genders are reversed.


You know Dr. Harley's rule for what to do when you feel frustrated, right?


Well, you won't eliminate angry outbursts by psychoanalyzing yourself to try to explain them. There's a defined procedure to follow. Do you know what it is?


Friend, controlling your angry outbursts is your responsibility, not your wife's. There are some great strategies to suggest to YOU on how to do this, but it's going to start with getting the locus of control for this inside of YOU, and relieving her of this unfair burden you are placing on her.

He didn't blow up because of the movie, he blew up because she minimized the affair movie and left it on the TV.. He was so upset that he left the room. How hard would it have been to simply change the channel when you see your spouse in distress? That is just basic care and compassion.

It doesn't justify an AO, but behavior like this is bound to trigger a BS.

Why didn't you turn it off? Your arm broke?

HFD, she didn't turn it off because she is not sensitive to affair movies - she has never been victimized by adultery and can't be expected to feel the same as you do.

In these situations, it is up to you to explain to her how distressful it is to see this. She has NEVER been raped and does not understand how traumatic adultery is.

Instead of having an angry outbursts, a better approach would be to tell her the movie is upsetting you and change the channel. Now she will know how you feel when this comes up in the future. But you have to explain this to her in a respectful, calm way so she can help you.

Are you listening to Dr. Harley's hour of free help every day?

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi4200_radio.html

I'm asking because, as a husband, I've often found that our marriage CANNOT progress if I let myself start to live in an attitude of entitlement, and I've found that Dr. Harley's perspective seems to be the perfect antidote to that entitlement: Dr. Harley puts a larger and somewhat unfair burden on husbands to win and pursue their wives in recovery. He does this regardless of whether the husband or the wife was unfaithful. He does this because it is what works. It's not fair, but there are times when the wife will not fully start to empathize with her husband, and meet his emotional needs, and even eliminate her own disrespect and demands, until her husband has started keeping a straight course of no love busters and meeting her emotional needs.

So I am strongly urging you to take your love busters seriously, work through the plans Dr. Harley has in his workbook, and assume the burden of restoring your marriage. Listen to Dr. Harley frequently and hear what his perspective on this is. It's rough - but it works.

Markos,

You wrote:

You know Dr. Harley's rule for what to do when you feel frustrated, right?
There's a defined procedure to follow. Do you know what it is?
There are some great strategies to suggest to YOU on how to do this,

I cannot answer these questions, honestly. What does Dr. Harley advise? What are the strategies?


Prisca,

You are correct, and as I stated in an earlier post, I need to be more assertive and proactive in my communicating my feelings/needs.

Do you have the book Lovebusters and the workbook?

Melody,

We don't.

We have SAA and HNHN, but not Lovebusters. I need to get it.

You need to get a hold of your lovebusters is what you need to do.
You started with a demand (she should be the one turning it off to protect you, something you are perfectly capable of doing yourself).
Then you went to disrespectful judgements (Why can't she read my mind and just do what I want her to do?)
And then you exploded in an AO.

You are abusing your wife.

Okay, you need to take this really seriously. After 2? 3? years hanging around Marriage Builders, these are things you ought to know. Get to listening to that radio show. In fact, dig into the archives.

I am going to give you one answer: when you are frustrated, DO NOT SAY OR DO ANYTHING. Focus only on relaxing, calming down. As long as you are angry, you are not sane, and anything you are thinking of doing or saying will make your problem worse.

Look for the threads around here about anger management 101 to start finding the answers to the other questions I asked. You need to invest some effort in learning these. I am serious that if you are not going to invest this effort, you might as well give it up.

I would sign up for the online program and start actually using this program. [they will send you all the books as part of the program]

You need a coach to guide you on a weekly basis, wouldn't you agree? For some reason you and your wife haven't been able to implement this program on your own. I see absolutely no sign that you are actually using this program. You both lovebust each other, you don't meet each others emotional needs and you aren't spending your UA time together. Both you and your wife are miserable.

Recovery does not happen by accident. Having no plan is a plan to fail...as you have discovered the hard way.

When are you going to get it? It's available on amazon for download right now.

I suspect that he and his wife don't have the self discipline and vision to do this program on their own. This was one of the problems in my own marriage and I think it is the issue here too. Once I had Sandy walking us through the program step by step, it quickly fell into place. I just think some people need that kind of guidance.