I've been reading for a long time but never posted in the forums. You are all so wonderful at working together to help one another.

I am experiencing a tough time in my marriage. We are trying to start MB together now. I have read all the books at least once and we have the workbook too. I filled out the LB worksheet over a year ago and have been trying to get my H interested for the same amt of time. It has been slow going with him. I'm trying to be patient but am not always so good at it.

I want to ask for your help in categorizing one of the things that happens between us that is painful/difficult for me.

I am extremely sensitive to perceived rejection. My husband is comfortable with little conversation and I like a lot of conversation. I am feelings oriented and he is logical.

I may be talking to him and he just barely acknowledges I have spoken, or maybe he seems disinterested in me. I will feel totally rejected and in only moments I can go from being excited about the topic I wanted to discuss to totally withdrawn and feeling really hurt.

Similarly, at times I will feel a need to express my needs or how I feel about our relationship and he gets mad at me and I end up feeling like I should just give up trying. I may not be telling him in the right ways. I find it hard to identify specific action oriented things since I am speaking with my feelings a lot of times. For example, I will be down and say I feel sad and just don't feel special to anyone. He gets super defensive and says something like "well I asked what you wanted to do tonight".

I just feel so empty with the lack of understanding between us.

My question to you.... Is this a love buster? If it causes me such immediate pain and withdrawal of so many LU it seems like it fits the bill but I am not sure how to categorize it.

Am I doing something wrong? Is it wrong to expect a connected response, one that shows interest and care?

Te ideal for me would be that he hears my heart, asks questions to further understand, shows a desire to find out why it hurts. And in the everyday conversations, just show interest in me, I want to feel heard and as if someone likes me.

Thanks for your help.

Hi Waterlilly, it sounds to me like he has checked out of the marriage. Can you answer a few questions for me?

1. are you married?

2. how long?

3. any children?

4. what about undivided attention time? How much time do you spend out on dates alone with each other?

Thanks for your response. I can see why you would think that. I think it sometimes too. But, to give him credit, I think he does want a good marriage with me. It is the second marriage for us both. He does love me, in his way that is very often hard for me to feel.

To illustrate.... Last night we had the defensive exchange ending with an AO by him. I just turned away on the couch and tried not to let him know I was crying... And he was watching a ball game. He eventually went up to bed without saying a word. I slept on couch. Now this morning he's in a happy mood and just announced that he read another LB chapter and has only one chapter left. He seemed proud about that and I see he is making some progress or at least making an effort. It's way more than he has done in a while.

1. Yes, married
2. It will be three years this month.
3. 3 children. 15 yrs from my previous marriage
9 yrs from his previous marriage
2 yrs - our daughter together
4. UA time is nothing... I know , bad. I want it... We haven't met at all to schedule. Last year when I was trying to get him to do this MB he was skeptical we would be able to fit in that much time. I need to take the initiative to talk about scheduling it.... It is so hard for me I guess I fear him telling me no and then feeling like I get confirmation of not being important enough...

Some additional info... I'm on AD for depression and anxiety. I am pretty negative about myself and know its not helpful. I guess I feel like ill just never be something to someone.. Lately I'm in such a dark place over this.... I keep thinking if I can just feel love again I will be better

Our relationship started out so good and he made me feel loved like I didn't know was possible.... Then I think he just stopped trying and I was left with a broken dream...he says it was just the beginning phase of the relationship or "honeymoon phase" but it makes me feel so upset when it gets dismissed like that because to me it was something I wanted for life not just for a small period of time.... But Harley says my dream can really happen so I have hope in this program.

I want to feel in love... Forever and ever....

I would start by eliminating lovebusters. His lovebusters are ruining your marriage and you need to tell him this. No more fights and no more angry outbursts.

The next important step is start scheduling UA time. You can't sustain the love in a marriage unless you are doing this step. This program does not work without this step!

Are you familiar with that rule? Do you have the workbook Five Steps to Romantic Love? If so, there is a worksheet in the back that you can pull out and make copies. Get in the habit of scheduling your time once a week for the upcoming week. Dr Harley recommends 4 - 4 hour dates out of the home meeting the top 4 intimate emotional needs of affection, conversation, rec companionship and sexual fulfillment.


It is only the beginning phase of a marriage if you don't do the necessary things to sustain the love in your marriage. Erosion of the love in a marriage is a choice that doesn't have to be made. Have your husband listen to this: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/play_segment.cfm?sid=132#


Print this up and read it with your husband: The Policy of Undivided Attention

Will he come here and speak to us?

Here is a quick article on conversation that you could share with your husband;

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5056_qa.html

By share, I mean you read it as well.



For instance, you mention starting to talk about something new that you are excited about.

That's great!


However, if it is something your husband is not familiar with, it may become a one-sided conversation.

So! Here's the idea; you introduce the subject as something you are interested in, and allow him time to find out more. Let him know you would like to talk about it.


Also; you will want to spend some time investigating things that he likes to talk about (the country song "Let's Talk About Me" comes to mind here). Try to balance out the conversations.


Your conversations will be less one-sided and more enjoyable when you both like, and are informed, about the subject.


And, I do emphasize like.


My wife LOVED the "Twilight" books... I not only have no interest in them, I really HATE them. So... we are not going to talk about Twilight, and I'm not going to read the books to drive that conversation.


Instead, there are other books, or movies, or music... or the UFC!... to discuss, and we mutually enjoy those conversations.



Lastly; an environment that encourages giving each other your Undivided Attention is going to make conversation more enjoyable.


No TV, no computers, no cell phones... and out of the home.


My wife and I like to do pie and coffee (well, she does coffee and I do Arnold Palmers). Some of the chain restaurants even have offers for free meals/drinks/desserts if you sign up online - Shari's had free pie!

New rule;

No more "defensive exchanges."


Safe phrase when either of you becomes defensive; "This conversation no longer feels safe or pleasant, can we talk about this later?"

If the conversation cannot remain safe (free of Disrespectful Judgements, Selfish Demands, or Angry Outbursts) and pleasant, it should not continue until those two conditions can be met.

Thanks so much for your speedy replies.... I have had him read this thread and we will have a goal of reviewing the posted materials and scheduling UA time this weekend for next week...

I have also asked him to join and he has shown some interest, will let u know what his name is if he does...

I encouraged him because I can see such value in asking for advice here since we are so new to the program and could BOTH use work in building better habits and skills... Plus it's basically anonymous and isn't as awkward as trying to ask people you know for help...

Thanks again.

Great!! We can help you both get what you want and need in your marriage.

HHH made an excellent point in his post about being interesting. When my H and I go on our dates, we focus very hard on being as pleasant as possible. We go places that we BOTH like, ie: no compromises. Find things to do that you both like or it will ruin the whole exercise. Some ideas for dates would be driving to a nice restaurant an hour away. The ride over and back will give you the opportunity to meet each others needs for conversation and affection.

Conversation is as pleasant and interesting as possible. We FLIRT with each other..

We both dress in ways that please the other and try to be as interesting as possible. No cell phones or ipads..

Thanks for posting this ... We listened to it tonight and enjoyed the segment... I agree so much, that we should be able to have passion in our marriage... I'm just not willing to live without it I guess... I want it back.

We both read the article tonight... Thanks for posting. It generated some good conversation between us. I agreed that I truly want him to investigate, understand and be interested in me so it's really nice for him to see this being suggested by Harley when it's something I've been asking for anyway...

He mentioned its kind of hard for him to get into a conversation with me because he thinks most of the time I only want to complain about him. He said "I think you just want to talk about what you want me to change to make you feel better"... So, I guess I may be violating the enemy of conversation of dwelling on mistakes...?

Maybe I have made him avoid me because I get upset about too many things, behaviors etc... I don't really know what to think.... I know lately I am not someone most people would want to talk to as I've been letting my frustration get the best of me (becoming obviously irritated by just about anything the kids, dog, DH do) so, trying to cut that out since I know these must be considered AO. Sometimes the anxiety is so high during these times I have to physically get away from them all.... I think the anxiety/irritability gets a lot worse when I'm feeling hopeless about our relationship

Here is another good clip.
Radio Clip on Passion in a Marriage

When you are out on your dates, you should not complain and you should NEVER EVER bring up mistakes of the past.

HOWEVER, if he doesn't want mistakes of the past brought up, he shouldn't commit the same behavior in the PRESENT. The way to stop your complaints is to stop doing the things that make you unhappy. A complaint is like getting an overdraft notice in the mail from the bank. you might not like getting the notice, but the alternative is WORSE. Please print this up and read together:

Dear Dr. Harley,

My wife says that she wishes she could talk to me about the things she is dissatisfied with in our marriage, so they could be addressed. But when she does talk to me about these things, I get frustrated because it seems like she is never happy with me. The progress I make doesn't seem to matter.

I often see her explaining what she is upset about as complaining and only focusing on the negative. I don't often feel like she has recognized the good things about us. I want her to be more positive. I think she complains too much and does not see the good in some situations. I want her perspective to change, but she doesn't think
she has to do something different to make this happen.

Thanks for your help.

R.D.

- - - - - - - - - - - -

Dear R.D.

On average, women complain far more often than men, in both good and bad marriages. But there is a difference in how the complaints are received in those marriages. In good marriages, a complaint is regarded as a problem to be solved with wisdom and compassion. In bad marriages, a complaint is viewed as an unnecessary irritant -- something that should be either ignored or reacted to with anger and
disrespect.

Remember what a complaint is -- it's a reminder that you are losing love units in your account in your wife's Love Bank. She is simply giving you accurate information about the present state of your relationship. While it may be discouraging to hear that you are losing ground, to be kept in the dark about such losses would be worse in the long run.

More than anything else, your wife wants to be in love with you, and you want her to be in love with you. So to achieve that crucial objective you must know when her love for you is being threatened by behavior that makes her unhappy. If your marriage has any hope of recovery, she must tell you how she feels about your behavior, and
you must make corrections to eliminate her negative reactions.

Your wife's high incidence of negative reactions simply reflects the number of issues that have yet to be resolved in your marriage. If you want her to be more positive, you must address those issues, and eliminate them one at a time. You've had success in the past, and she has been very encouraged when that happens. But when you seem
to be overwhelmed by it all, and tell her that she must learn to be more positive, she feels hopeless because there remain many issues that must be resolved if she is to be happy and in love with you.

The harder you try to become sensitive to your wife reactions, the more successful you will become in doing what it takes to make her happy. The more you try to avoid anger, replacing it with empathy (an effort to try to understand how your wife feels without being defensive), the more your wife will feel your care for her, and
that in itself will make massive Love Bank deposits.

Remember, all of your efforts on your wife's behalf make a
difference in the way you think and behave. You are rerouting neural pathways in your brain that will make it easier for you to care for her in the future. While it may seem like a lot of effort now, in the future, it will be almost effortless to address your wife's complaints, and solve her problems with compassion.

Best wishes,

Willard F. Harley, Jr.

Wow, this q/a seem's written for our exact situation...I will share with DH .... Thanks so much.... Feels good to know we have a good support system

We were doing well till this evening...

Last week we plotted out the UA schedule but as of today had only managed to end up with around 6 hours of UA time in all. That is only my estimate because he didn't review it with me.

This evening he asked what we were going to do tonight and I mentioned we needed to plan out the week and I thought it would be good to start the domestic support exercise since he had said that was likely his top EN.

He was disappointed and said he wanted to do something fun. I felt discouraged because I knew we didn't have much time in the day left and asked what he wanted to do... He said something about just going ahead with the planning and stuff but I said it should be done with an enthusiastic agreement.

So we didn't talk about it for a bit and then when the baby was in bed he asked again about the worksheets and I mentioned that I didn't want to feel guilty doing it if he really didn't want to. He said he didn't like doing it (planning UA time) , which hurt my feelings. I told him it makes me feel like I'm not important enough to plan time with. He asked what he could do differently and I said I'd like it if he was excited to do this with me. He said I expect him to do everything I want otherwise ill just get in a bad mood and we don't do anything...

It ended with him continuing to try to make me believe his reasoning and he was really defensive, I said I didn't feel safe and had to ask him twice to stop talking about it... At which point he got up from the couch and went to bed. I'll be sleeping on the couch tonight....

i had asked him twice what he wanted to do and he had no forthcoming ideas. Then when I told him my feelings he started getting defensive.... I just wish he would listen and try to understand that I want him to be committed to the program for us.

When he plans with me and works through, talks through the materials I somehow feel hope that I am not going to be invisible to him any more. It's like he wants to know me, and when we discuss these things it feels like we are doing something really important. I don't like hearing that it is a chore to him, it makes me feel withdrawn or like it is not safe to let him near my heart.

I feel so discouraged right now...

I would sit down and plan out your UA time for the next week. That time should be spent doing things you both feel are fun. The last of which is a domestic support exercise! Use that time meeting the top 4 intimate emotional needs. If he said that DS was his "top EN," that only means he is emotionally detached from you. DS is not an intimate emotional need and when a spouse is detached they focus on the minor, non-intimate ENs.

Make that time FUN and enjoyable. So what happened that prevented you from meeting your UA time this week? Did you line up babysitters? What did you have planned and at what time of the day?

Are you planning UA that he finds enjoyable?
Are you planning UA that meets the four intimate emotional needs (Conversation, Affection, Recreational Companionship, Sexual Fulfillment)?

I, too, was surprised when he said DS was his top EN. I was actually kind of down over it because he is a very tidy person and I am sloppy. I often feel that I let him down domestically and just don't measure up to expectations.

I felt down but tried to pick myself up out of it and thought I should just try to go through the exercise to find out what he needed me to do etc.

He said he probably likes the other needs better but that if DS was there he would feel more free to enjoy other things like RC.

I think he really likes all the household things to be done so they aren't on his mind at all. Me, on the other hand, I could care less about a sink full of dishes.

Why don't you stop doing the things that annoy him and focus on making your UA time fantastic? What are you doing to clean up your sloppiness? I will just tell you that I also have to have a clean, tidy home or I feel miserable. Can you do something to change this?