Absolutely NOT!

I have tried to live my life the right way, okay, maybe too much Type A, and having the Achilles heel of a bad temper or an AO bothers me because it diminishes who I can be.

Even if the frustration is over a loved one who will not get help for a medical issue?

Just a rough patch, big guy. Steady the ship.

I think it is imperative to learn to calm oneself in the face of frustrations - to learn to "act" instead of "react." I also think it is imperative to address the frustration itself, especially if it is something that is recurring.

No, it's not just a rough patch. He has been here for 2 years without ever using MB to restore their marriage, and they've been lovebusting each other up one side and down another. There's some serious work that needs to be done here. Their marriage is on the road to becoming a crippled version of what it was pre-affair.

This requires negotiation, which cannot be done until AOs are eliminated.

The ship is leaking badly. And will sink unless it is brought in for an overhaul. This is what happens when couples don't follow the program. And it will only get WORSE over the years as resentment grows.

This is what happens when couples don't follow the program.

Good point, Mel. It appears THIS side of the ship is well sealed and getting watertight.

Is anyone spending any time working on the other side? Is anyone checking?

NG,

This ship is leaking all over the place. Both Mom and Dad lovebust and fail to follow POJA. They have been struggling for far too long.

There has been a recommendation by several posters for Mom and Dad to enroll in the online program. They BOTH need to be following MB principles. They both seem familar with the concepts but fall short in the implementation. That makes them perfect candidates for the on-line program.

So far, there has been no answer on either thread about whether this is something they will pursue.

AM

Their ship is leaking all over the place because they are not taking this program seriously. The program does not work by osmosis. He has to actually work it.

This is a defensive posture that I want you to lose, Dad. I said this once before and I will say it again: I think you and hfm admire and respect the concepts here, but are failing to do the work required to implement them into your marriage.

Try this visualization: hfm came here (good for her!) and related an experience regarding that movie last weekend. Do you know what happened then?

Sirens started blaring. People you've never even met dropped what they were doing, suited up and got to work to help you.

There is no malice here, Dad. You should know that by now. Our goal is to help you reach YOUR goal.

And yes, we have given you a few along the way, and mister, I'm not afraid to do it again. I think I have a permanent bruise on my head from whacking it against my computer desk in frustration, back in the early days. But THAT'S OKAY. That's why we're here!

You want to lead recovery? Become a Marriage Builders Master and LEAD.

You're hearing some things here that make you uncomfortable? Read them over and over. Become comfortable with those thoughts and concepts. You are getting sterling assistance here. As Markos said, do the RESEARCH.

DISTRACTION ALERT!!

NG, you know full well that Dad has been here much, much longer than hfm. You know that there is a deficit here regarding the knowledge he should have gleaned by now in reference to the issues we're addressing here. You know that Dad's desire is to lead recovery. You know that hfm has tentatively poked her toes into the water to test its warmth. She's easily spooked right now (Hi Mom! No offense intended! )


What better person to address these issues with than the one who has been here and gotten to know us over the years?

And yes, we have been over to hfm's thread, but she has chosen to not respond right now. (Come on, hfm, you can do it!)

Just because you're not in the woods doesn't mean you can't hear a tree falling.
(Does anyone get that other than me? )

MB, HFM has shown herself to be a master (mistress?) manipulator and distractor (going back to the never-sent NCL!) and the correspondents here - surprisingly - have fallen for her act.

I left the house at 2:30 today, and returned at 6:00. In that time 29 posts were added here, and 1 (as in barely more than zero) were added to hers - and that 1 was a note asking where the hell she was. So when you say, "we have been over to hfm's thread," I will take that as irony on your part!

She's using her mostly mythical presence here as a stalking horse to incent HFD to do ALL the work, make ALL the changes, and generate ALL the improvement in their union. For a supposed group of cynical and experienced posters, who LIVE by the watchword that words without actions are worth nothing, the assembly has certainly easily accepted NO ACTIONS from HFM in exchange for the credence given to her WORDS!

I watch the WS in this case be given a "pass" exempting her from demonstrated commitment, and I can only shake my head in disbelief!

Dr. Harley would expect dad to be doing the lion's share of the work in a typical case like this.

I know you don't think that's fair, NG, and I know you don't agree with Dr. Harley on this particular point, but it is what he says.

helpformom's resentment is only going to grow the longer the marriage goes on without genuinely recovering.

dad needs to do X amount of work to make the marriage work; mom needs to do Y amount of work.

Buyer: I'll do what it takes to make the marriage work.

Renter: What percent of X can I get by with? Is X bigger than Y?

The promise of Plan A is the Buyer's promise: if you'll commit to me, I'll fix all of the problems I ever caused in the marriage.

Why would you suggest that helpfordad dawdle on fulfilling this marriage promise?

Good morning.

I feel I need to wipe the slate clean today and just stake where I feel I am right now.

This may come in stops and starts as I can only post between classes or on lunch, so if a few posts come out in succession, and seem a bit disjointed, my apologies....


HFM's affair messed me up, killed me, killed something inside and I don't know if it'll come back. I want it to. I want us to be fixed and live out our lives together.

My mind doesn't always seem 'right' anymore. I doubt myself, my thinking, my rationalality after what she did. Whether it's called fear or insecurity or trauma...somethings just not the same.

Yet, our relationship, friendship has never been better...but, can I trust it?

And then I wonder if I've had this all backwards? Seems like I've been thinking that I'm waiting to heal, in order to do parts of the program right...when maybe it's the program that needs to get done to help me heal. Or maybe its HFMs actions I need to help me heal.

Sometimes it seems this program is in thirds:

1. SAA - end/survive the affair
2. HNHN - learn to meet ENs
3. LBs - eliminate LBs that drain the lovebank

And here I feel like we've not addressed #3 at all...missed 1/3 of the program. No wonder we feel like we're spinning our wheels?
Maybe, with my personality, I've allowed myself to wallow too long in this, but I do feel victimized by the whole thing. But maybe I have fueled this because of my resentment and obsessive thinking.

I am so, so resentful...about her affair, and killing her affair and actions/behaviors during & after...and maybe resentful becasue it feels like there's no acknowledgement of how hard it was to end it, and so little cooperation from the person I now must rely on to rebuild a life with. And then, how do I make that NOT matter now since it's the past? How/when do I finally let it go?

The NCL, the phone numbers, the hidden cards, getting more truths of that time in March of this year...I'm tired, worn.

I want this, I want this, but it's taken a toll and recovery takes more and more and then even more and do I have that in me? Is it possible if LBs keep flying my way, and UA time is lacking, and can I become the best person I can be by eliminating MY OWN LBs?

Ok, I'll post again later...gotta go to class.

Just add:

Not trying to be too simplistic, but from my view here, I feel the major impediments are:

1. HFD's #1 LoveBuster that needs to be ELIMINATED.

2. HFM's #1 Lovebuster

3. lack of appropriate UA time

thanks...

helpformom's resentment is only going to grow the longer the marriage goes on without genuinely recovering

That's a typo, right?

You didn't really mean to imply that the BS is encouraged to jump through hoops so the wayward spouse's (remember: the one that torpedoed her own ship?) tender sensitivities are assuaged!

So, "just compensation" and a reform of one's approach to the marital state is now the main responsibility of the BH? Even when the WW has resisted every opportunity to take action on her own? It does strike me that urging a BS to more clearly align his attitudes toward those of the WS would result to TWO WSs!
I'm torn, here, dude. or

I don't think feeding HFD's thoughts that she is wrong is going to help but rather inflame.

I'm trying to figure out HFM's #1 lovebuster and am wondering if it's her past affair.

HFM, you hit upon the principles of MB: do the actions to work towards thriving after an affair. You won't be able to wait until you feel better to work the program.