We have a google calendar and I did block out What I thought would be good UA times but I haven't shown him yet. 2 hrs per night except for a 4 hr on Saturdays... I'm guessing it would be very hard for me to get him agree to do 4 four hour dates w me

When we were dating, he called me every night at 9:00 sharp. We would always talk for 2 hors or more...

Now, he is adamant about winding down ( meaning he doesn't talk about anything or do anything other than watch tv in bed) at 10 pm and its lights out by 11 pm at the very latest...

He doesn't even say good nit most of the time...

Sometimes I just lay there and cry....always I feel an empty ache in my chest at night feeling so lonely

That is great that he gave you this feedback. Be sure and plan so he can get in bed at 10:00 and wind down.

How about something like this:

3 Tuesday: 5:30 - 8:30
3 Wednesday 5:30 - 8:30
3 Friday 6 - 9:00
5 Saturday: 5 - 10:00
3 Sunday: 1 - 4:00

17 hours

That will give you plenty of time to be with your kids during the weekend and on Monday and Thursday nights. I would stop arguing about how enthusiastic he is and just get this planned out. Be as pleasant as possible. I think you will see a much more invested husband if you just start spending more time together and making it as enjoyable as possible.


This is all a disrespectful judgment of him. Stop bringing up past fights and focus on the fun you are going to have together!

You will feel much better once we get this show on the road.

Well, I think I must be a huge DJ'r. I don't know how to express my feelings if its always a DJ.

If I feel hurt, over something he did...should I just tell him that he hurt me and not try to explain why or how I am interpreting what has happened? Aren't my perceptions part of what we need to come to an understanding on so he can avoid hurting me?

I think I always assume things or read into meaning of his actions which is, I guess, a DJ.

WL, do you accept and understand that your marriage has become an unhappy place for him too? He is just as unhappy as you. This is why he is not excited about spending this much time together. That is to be expected. But that is what this exercise is supposed to CHANGE. In a few weeks, if you have both successfully eliminated lovebusters and are as pleasant as attractive as possible, you will look forward to your time together. But you can't be expected to feel this way right off the bat.

Will you have him fill this out and come back and tell us the results? http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forms/MaritalProblemAnalysis.pdf

Name ______________________________________________________________
Your answer to the questions in this Marital Problem analysis will help us determine the sequence
of lessons in the follow-up courses that would be most appropriate for you to complete.
For each of the following, indicate how serious a problem it is in your marriage. Use these
numbers to indicate your answer.

1. Serious enough to threaten our marriage unless resolved
2. Serious, but not enough to threaten our marriage if left unresolved
3. Sometimes disappointing, but not a serious problem
4. Not a problem at all.
_______ Affection _______ Family Commitment
_______ Sexual Fulfillment _______ Admiration
_______ Intimate Conversation _______ Selfish Demands
_______ Recreational Companionship _______ Disrespectful Judgments
_______ Honesty and Openness _______ Angry Outbursts
_______ Physical Attractiveness _______ Dishonesty
_______ Financial Support _______ Annoying Habits
_______ Domestic Support _______ Independent Behavior
Are you in the process of divorcing? _______ (Yes or No)
If you have not filed for divorce, have you been considering it? _______ (Yes or No)
During this weekend, I introduced three goals of marriage: (1) create a lifestyle that is fulfilling for
both of you, (2) avoid being each other�s source of unhappiness, and (3) becoming each other�s
greatest source of happiness. Your failure to achieve which of these three goals is having the
greatest negative impact on your marriage?
_______ (write the number of the goal)
If you could learn to achieve that goal, would you be able to achieve the other two without much
difficulty?
_______ (Yes or No)
If your answer is no, which of the other goals would remain difficult to achieve?
_______ (Write the number, or numbers in order of difficulty)

Telling him how he feels is a DJ: "I told him I felt like he wasn't listening to my feelings and how his reluctance and sour attitude over the planning made me feel like a chore and not worth it."

Boom. Right there. FULL. STOP.

That's it.

Reasoning, rationale, etc are irrelevant.

Why you think it hurt you is irrelevant. It hurt you. End. of. story.

When you carry on, it is a disrespectful judgement.

Why?

Because you are attempting to get him around to your way of thinking about why it hurt you.

He doesn't have to think like you to stop hurting you, he just needs to stop the actions which cause the injury.

They "why" is useless to him stopping. The "why" for him stopping is because it destroys your love for him. FULL. STOP.

I guess I don't have enough faith that he will stop just by me saying it hurts. It's probably engrained in me somewhere that I must somehow justify my feelings... Maybe I am looking for validation in some way. What you say makes sense.... The rewiring of these habits is hard to do.... I must trigger his defensive response when I explain the why...which indicates the DJ I suppose

Exactly, so you are justifying a disrespectful judgment, with a disrespectful judgment.


http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3402_disrespect.html


So... STOP IT.

Thx, HHH, just talking it out here... My response was in agreement. I need to hear what you are saying, it will help me recognize the pattern better.

Here is his survey... Will post mine next...

Here is mine.

Feeling really withdrawn from the whole thing right now, wondering where to get the energy to keep trying...


Still no UA time has been had.

He just won't make it a priority. He seems to have a great relationship with the kids and laughs, jokes, plays with them constantly. I'm in a dark hole of pain watching him and feeling like I'm just worthless. I fantasize about being on my own so I can escape the pain of being lonely with him only steps away. Maybe it doesn't make sense.

We returned from a family vacation yesterday and the driving was excruciating.

I want out.

During the vacation I asked him and SD to please listen to me when I am talking because I kept getting ignored, and he launches into a big lecture about how I need to get over it and realize that everyone gets ignored sometimes and that it also happens to him etc. I told him that it hurt me so he should stop doing it but he continues to disagree. All this is in front of the 3 kids and I felt humiliated. Still, today he continues to say that I am not listening to his feelings about this topic and that it bothers him when I get upset over this situation, to which I replied " if it upsets you when I am hurt over it then you should stop doing it" but he just gets mad and says I am unwilling to change .... Seriously.... If I am talking and everyone continuously ignores me.... Then I tell them it bothers me when they ignore me, I am expected to change my feelings and just somehow not be hurt by it anymore since he explained that it happens to everyone sometimes?

The whole thing just leaves me feeling totally deflated

I agree it would be nice if everyone did what you needed to feel happy and safe. Especially your H. But, I'm sorry to say, that isn�t what your M needs to be its best right now. Your time together, the exchanges you have, the things he�s asked to listen to are all things that create tension and anxiety for him. That needs to change.

Through most of this thread you talk about how HE won�t listen to you, to your complaints of feeling hurt. If this is how most of your conversations go it�s no wonder he doesn�t want to listen. It must be difficult for him to hear you because most conversations end up in the same place � you talking about your feelings, filing your complaints.

Where is the fun? He even asked that. He�d rather do something fun. So do that. Do something fun. Make it light. Spend 15-20 hours meeting each other�s needs. Do not file complaints during this time.

Where in the course of your interactions with each other do you two talk about and enjoy conversations about things you both like talking about? Have you ever asked him what that might be or tried introducing different topics to find something you have that would be pleasant?

Planning UA time is a good idea. But if it doesn�t work for the two of you then you need to find another way to make UA time happen. Maybe it�s a simple day to day question. What would you like to do together today? Keep it simple. Make it quick and less of an EVENT. It is what my W and I do every day. Bottom line � you need to have some quality fun time together. You need to make it a pleasant time for both of you. You need to get the UA time train on track. Right now, he sounds opposed to being with you. He�s opposed because he has a perception of what that time together will be like.

In the past I had a hard time listening to my wife. She likes to talk � a lot. I did my best to listen but I�ve had to implement a new behavior where we talk about topics that we both enjoy. Mind you I don�t do this all the time � but once in a while I need to have our conversations be something I would like to talk about.

As an example, most times my W will discuss in detail every little thing that happened at work that day. And while I don�t mind listening to my W talk about work tasks it is very hard to listen to her talk about the idiotic, rude and abusive things the people she interacts with do each and every day. So much drama. After a while it becomes like fingers on a chalkboard for me. When that happens I�ve found I can simply ask her if we can discuss something else � of course if I want that then I am tasked with having another topic to discuss. That�s my role. If I don�t have another topic then I am ready to talk about whatever it is she wants to talk about.

In the course of improving your M you and your H will need to have these kinds of open and honest conversations that avoid you always ending up complaining about not being heard or having your feelings ignored.

Bottom line is � I would avoid trying to complain a lot. I would try to keep the mass majority of your conversations fun and light. In order for that to happen you need to branch out and try new topics to discuss with him.

And if you do complain. Try to keep it short. Don�t go on and on about why you feel the way you do. Sometimes just letting him know you are hurt is enough. He doesn�t need what feels like a lecture. Try something like just saying �Ouch, that hurt.�. And then leave it at that. Let him come to you asking you for further explanation if he feels he needs it. Just let him be aware that you�re hurt but aren�t going to drag him through the mud explaining why.

If he comes here to post we can help him with his side of the situation. He could also help us find the issues and validate what we perceive to be the biggest things that roadblock you and him being romantically in love.

Have you read this:
When to Call it Quits, Part 1

Waterlilly, your husband is very disrespectful and neglectful. The solution is NOT to complain less. Dr. Harley advises that you complain about this, and do it often. Your husband needs to know that you are not going to tolerate this anymore.

If he continues to be disrespectful and refuses to have UA with you, you should consider a separation. Read the article I posted above.

I may have missed it, but I didn't see an answer to this question.

Is there any chance the two of you could start listening to this radio show together daily?

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/mb3.cfm?recno=12

Each day's show is repeated around the clock until the next show starts, so you can listen at any time, like in the evenings together.

Thanks for your responses.

I did ask him to come here but he hasn't yet. I know some of the comments have bothered him so far, so maybe that has kept him away.

I know he would have a lot to say about his side of things, I have become pretty withdrawn from him, easily irritated, and probably not any fun to be around. He told me no one likes to be around me, even the kids because I am unpleasant.

I want to be better at trying to be more fun and not dwell on how I feel so much. I just feel so sad and out of energy. I get so annoyed with everything. I guess it's just being unhappy. I need to get my meds reevaluated too.

MrAlias is right, I should learn to keep my complaints simple, to the point, and avoid going on and on. Actually, there are so many complaints I don't even bring up, because he says I'm so negative ... Like the other day he came back with "why can't you ever just have fun?" , this was after I had said I felt bottled up after not being able to talk to him alone for days.

I read the article again, and it rings true for me. I have been researching separation. Yesterday I planned on setting up a room for myself in the basement. But when I went down I found some rain water had gotten in somehow and so then it was a big clean up effort ( we have never had water before). So then later he asked me how I had noticed it and I told him I was going to set up a room for myself. Later I noticed he had moved his pillows out of the bedroom and he slept in another room last night. It was less stressful just being on my own. I feel like I can be free or be a better mom that way. I do want him to love me, but for now I think I need him to hang a bit and realize I'm serious about this program.

Last week I gave him a list of things I wanted him to do for us. One was to schedule 20 to 25 hours of UA time per week. Another was to get on board with MB.

We had a whole week of vacation and he made absolutely no mention of either.

I think we will likely discuss it thou now because he did send me an email today to tell me he was not ignoring things and he knows things are bad but he is giving me space to de-anxiety de-stress and would look for opportunities to break the ice and get closer again. I sent a response to thank him for letting me know and it was good to know he isn't ignoring it.

So that is a good sign I think...