Only one spouse being on board is typical at first. If you are the husband, Dr. Harley says you typically have a great chance of bringing your wife around. If you are the wife, you may have to take more drastic measures to get your husband's participation.

I find it difficult to discuss how I feel because, in the end, I think that I am throwing HFD under the bus. I have discussed my thoughts about this with only a counselor, until now. In general, the things that I am feeling about HFD are not positive and sometimes I feel there is a negative number in the love bank and when he begins to make deposits, they are short lived. Every day it is something else from him that makes me take pause and wonder is it time to exit for both of our mental states.

Example, just since I got home from work today - Two of my old colleagues called from work and left a message on my cell phone voice mail. I didn't hear the phone ring. HFD heard the phone and told me before I had a chance to pick up. I played the message on speaker phone so HFD could hear it - total transparency. The contents were about how I am their sister friend... [censored] - so I told HFD how much the message hurts me. I said you have gone through your thing and I have gone through my thing. He gave me what I felt was a dirty look and proceeded to tell me how can I equate what I have gone through with what he has gone through. I never tried to equate the two. I never said that. Those words never came out of my mouth. Again, an AO and DJ on his part. I was feeling like these colleagues know and saw me every day. They didn't have the same experience with HFD. I mean I look back on this time and I completely deteriorated. These "sister friends" as they like to call themselves never said boo to me, never asked me if I was ok or asked if they could help me in any way. This stuff still hurts me. I told HFD that I would like to change my cell phone number again because the phone calls and messages need to stop.

Every day I am prepared for him to start something negative with me. He says on the forum that his AO are diminishing, but what good is it if they occur once a day and not three times a day. He appears to have no control over them or that's what he would like to believe.

I have been anxious/depressed for years, this is true. He is and has been a major cause of it. I find his behavior quite upsetting. He has a way of making me feel like I am not worthy, like my thinking is wrong...

To the forum, I am a 42 year old woman and he was my only partner until 2010. This was not the path that I thought MY LIFE would take. I find him and his behavior toward me abusive, so much so that I isolated myself from the rest of the world for years. Even now I have doubts about "socializing " with him, because of his behaviors. In my opinion, he was moody, passive aggressive and distant...he says things to me that cut through my heart and this is even true post affair, but I took his emotional abuse because for years I thought I deserved it.

Sometime in my 39th year, I had an epiphany that I have had enough of him. I completely self destructed and not only hurt him, but I hurt myself. A very bad choice on my part. I said this before, I should have left him. It would have been easier. I would NEVER encourage anyone to engage in this behavior.

Now, it is 3 years post affair, and I still think he is unstable. Do I think it is as bad as before the affair, no I do not. But I am not a happy wife.

I am not happy with several aspects of meeting the top needs. I lost passion for him. This didn't just happen over night, of course. This is several years of feeling that he left me lonely and I felt like he was cruel to me a lot. I don't know that I can get the passion back. He may feel the same way. He says that I am anxious and that this is an LB for him. I disagree. This is partly due to the fact that when a wife is living with a husband whom she feels this way about, the odds are that the wife will be anxious.

I want this marriage to work. I certainly wouldn't be here on the forum if I wasn't committed and recommitted to him. I am far from perfect. I have read all of your posts, both his and mine. He needs to be ACCOUNTABLE for him and his actions and I need to be ACCOUNTABLE for me. He tends to subtly blame me for his years of AO. Should I blame him for my affair?? Of course, I know I shouldn't, but you get my point.

Thoughts???

I hope that it is ok that I am posting on HFD site. It seems like a nice flow of information.

Also, I thought of another example from today. We are both taking off tomorrow. Shortly after he came in from work, I said are you excited about having a three day weekend with me. My last weekend until summer classes start. He says not really - what difference whether I'm home or at work. I have to mow the lawn, go food shopping...I thought a day home while the children are in school means some level of romance and fun. I mean, REALLY HFD. DOES HE REALLY WANT THIS TO WORK??? Even something like food shopping can be made into fun when two people in love are together. The "IN LOVE" part is what I have doubts about, at times.

What do you think of starting the online program together? You will be assigned a coach who will keep you both accountable for your part.

My only thought is this: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi9000_courses.html

Scroll down to the bottom and sign up for this course: The Marriage Builders� Online Program
$945.00
Includes the Marriage Builders� Online Seminar,
the Marriage Builders� Home Study Courses &
the Marriage Builders� Accountability Program (1 year).

If you want to BE in love you have to do the program. Really.

Well, I know there are a couple of books that I haven't read and are in the process of ordering. Do you think with the information that I'm sharing with you, a coach would be most appropriate?

Will the coach help both of us break through years of behaviors that have not been conducive for a healthy marriage?

YES!! You will not be able to implement this program without professional help. You have already proven this. Reading more books is not the answer.

I do feel bad, but the truth is the truth. I refuse to sugar coat this situation for another 3 years.

We have been together since we were 15 and 16 - never broke up. The thought of starting over is brutal. In my opinion, a divorce would be tragic.

Why are you two resisting the online course so much? I just don't get it.

There must be 50 posts on your two threads telling you to do the course, and every one of them has been met with a rebuttal. Why?

If you want to know why your wife is depressed and anxious, HFD, there you have it. You're still bringing up the affair, using your resentment to punish her, having ONE AO A DAY, and DJs.

You are causing the depression that bothers you so much.

So what are you going to do to fix it?

You guys really do need a professional coach to get through this. There is way too much resentment on both sides after several years of flirting with the program. There is a lot of blame on both sides. If just reading the books was the answer, you guys would've been fixed two years ago.

As I stated in my earlier posts...my H and I were able to recover without the online program but neither of us were resentful or pointing fingers. We both owned up to our behaviors and WANTED to change them - desperately! I don't see that happening here.

It doesn't seem like the money is the biggest issue here. I think one or both of you is truly afraid of being held accountable to change. Until you lose the "but HE..." and "but SHE..." attitudes, you've got a hard road to travel. Only a professional can help you guys with that at this juncture.

I know the answer to this one. I'll give it to them.

The answer is contained in a hermetically sealed envelope that has been kept on Melodylane's porch since noon yesterday...




It's the cost!

The cost, you say?


Well, yes. The cost.


It's pretty steep... when two people are not in love with each other... and don't even seem to like each other right now!


Though... I wonder how much a knock-down-drag-out divorce would cost?


I wonder how much the health bills caused by living for years and years in an unhappy marriage would cost?



Online program? Pffff, that's too pricey! I prefer my money be spent on heart attacks!

This - THIS - is what I have been asking myself too. Why on earth do you - HFD and HFM - not do the online course?! You are both suffering so much but you both - deep inside - know that you are much better off sorting this out and living a happy and harmonious life together than being divorced and fighting hatefully with each other.

The online course is the fastest way to achieve this goal. Doing it yourself - well, it hasn't worked, has it? No shame in that, we - all of us - are/have been pretty much idiots when it comes to all this relationship stuff. That's why we need objective advisers.

HFD and HFM, do the online course! You both sound so sad and fraught and confused. You deserve to be happy.

Nobody who does the online course does it from a position of already being in love. Everybody who does it is in a desperate position, usually having discovered an affair. Often they are on the brink of divorce, yet those desperate people take that step towards saving their marriages.

I don't think that what you wrote can be the answer. I'd really like to hear from this couple.

I agree. The part I bolded - about objective advisers - is especially important, especially after all this time. I would only add PROFESSIONAL in front of the objective. We can all advise on parts that strike a chord with us but the reality is, it's gotten pretty complicated. One of the professionals can help prioritize issues and what needs dealing with first. Not to mention - more importantly, help each party focus on what he/she needs to change and to stop pointing fingers at the other, which only leads to rationalization of why he/she doesn't need to change, or can't change.

Yes...at first... but this couple is way over 2 years in here. Not to mention the conditions of this post, originally: hfm posted - said her peace - but then backed out. If she hadn't posted, there would be no expectation of her responding, etc...

Of course, what's more important than posting is DOING the program...which both parties need to do, obviously.

They have not been doing the program for over 2 years though! He's been emotionally abusing her all that time instead of recovering. So, yeah, it's STILL "at first."

YEP. It really doesn't matter how much HFM posts, as long as the two of them START the program.

I'm going to respond to a number of posts on my thread and HFM's thread.

1. About the trickle-truth: your information is incorrect. I was NOT and have NOT been hounding HFM for details about her affair. In March of 2013, after smelling a perfume she bought, HFM called me on her way to work that AM to tell me while I was in work details she had NEVER revealed before: that she and the POS had gone together to several hotels after work, and a "general" idea as far as what months this occurred (the perfume "triggered" her to remember). Fall of 2010 until Spring of 2013 for details to be revealed. I suppose I'm wrong because I had a reaction to this news.

This is not about me pestering for restaurant names or badgering her about a street name or address. This is about details of her affair that she never revealed from the get-go and it set me back.

2. About AOs: Do I have AOs? Yes.
Am I embarrassed by this and want to show my son to be a better man? Of course.
Am I working to fully eliminate that LB by reading and researching MB and the books? Yes.
Do I have one a day? No, I do not.

3. HFM also brings up the affair, talks about it, cries about it, etc. When she does, I engage her and listen and discuss as well, because she wants me to listen to her. It is meeting an EN to listen, but this practice is not good and I will end this.

4. I have been here 30 months, so I'll accept the blame of not being as far along as we should. I just want it understood that HFM engaged here in the 26th of those 30 months.

5. I am NOT opposed to the online program. HFM says that the $1,000 is tough because son needs braces, tuition, need kitchen remodel, etc. HFD says: on many levels, the $1,000 is cheaper on many levels than the alternative. (but doesn't a $1,000 expense need to be POJA'd)?

6.When HFD has says "I feel that HFM....." I am told I'm making a DJ.

When HFM says "I feel that HFD....." her word is taken as gospel, the Truth (this apparent "look" I gave? I guess sharing my perspective of what happened would be a LB).

7.On our way to an appointment this AM, HFM began discussing her posts from last night, and she was visually bothered and upset and began discussing it and getting angry. To the point where HFM said: " I don't care if this marriage lasts or not, really."

She did apologize later, saying "Ignore what I said earlier...I'm due for my period and in a miserable mood."

But, since depression is NOT an LB, I guess it's my responsibility to tolerate that behavior.



This is long enough, so I'll pause here.

Thanks for reading.

This "he said" "she said" "no I didn't" "he did it too" "she did it worse" is ridiculous. People taking sides and refereeing your fights here is also ridiculous.

You need a coach from the online programme.