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Originally Posted by ResilientOne
What's EP again? Can't find the acronym list.
Here you go. Extraordinary Precautions


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Originally Posted by ResilientOne
...She had serious marriage problems, apparently the OM had hit her a few weeks prior...
And the Nationals' lineup isn't hitting worth a darn this season, but that also has nothing to do with your husband's sloppy boundaries.

Originally Posted by ResilientOne
...Question, so should I fill my emotional needs questionnaire? He hasn't filled his. I gave it to him night before last.
I don't see any harm in giving him your filled-out ENQ, but I think your first step is to get him reading Surviving An Affair ("SAA"). Someone who isn't onboard with trying to take a good, hard look at himself & why he did something he thought he'd never do, might not be in the right frame of mind to want to jump right into some questionnaire about feelings & emotional needs.

I'm no psychologist, but sounds to me like you might want to make sure not to let his depression be an excuse to treat him with kid gloves when it comes to your need for honesty & your need for him to take the lead in actions to help you feel emotionally safe again with him. Has he done a no-contact letter according to the template in SAA? He needs to do that. And he needs to change his cell # and e-mail addy. These steps are not impositions for him, and he shouldn't view them as such -- they are actually positive actions that he can take to help begin the long process of helping you heal, and he should be grateful for the suggestions. Go though SAA chapter-by-chapter and read it, make notes & questions, and then discuss your reactions to each chapter, calmly & dispassionately. (I know, easier said than done, but if you decide you want to give this marriage its best shot, then you both oughtta try it together.)

I don't mean to minimize the correct steps you've already taken, including exposing the affair and your cross-referencing his account of things with the other woman's husband, and spending one-on-one time together; those are all for the good! But there's lots more for him to do.





Me: FWH, 50
My BW: Trust_Will_Come, 52, tall, beautiful & heart of gold
DD23, DS19
EA-then-PA Oct'08-Jan'09
Broke it off & confessed to BW (after OW's H found out) Jan.7 2009
Married 25 years & counting.
Grateful for forgiveness. Working to be a better husband.
"I wear the chain I forged in life... I made it link by link, and yard by yard" ~Jacob Marley's ghost, A Christmas Carol
"Do it again & you're out on your [bum]." ~My BW, Jan.7 2009
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Thanks everyone for the link and info.

GloveOil, I just ordered the book on my kindle. Couldn't wait for delivery. We shall start it tonight and I will request those changes from him. I'll keep you all updated tomorrow!


I'm 28, WH is 31, diagnosed with major depression
Married 8 1/2 years
9 weeks pregnant with first child

D-Day 3/19/13 - EA with close church friend confessed by him, I had no idea
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Originally Posted by ResilientOne
Thanks everyone for the link and info.

GloveOil, I just ordered the book on my kindle. Couldn't wait for delivery. We shall start it tonight and I will request those changes from him. I'll keep you all updated tomorrow!
Let us know what his EPs are.


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Welp, its 3 am. Can't sleep after how horribly everything went. Today it seemed it was WH's best day of recovery (from depression). He was also super loving and attentive all weekend. I had been debating all day if I should approach the subject and possibly ruin what a wonderful day it had been.

So tonight, after going to bed at 11pm, I brought it up. I told him I was feeling very anxious and insecure about any possibilities of further contact from OW. I asked if he could take further precautions to reassure me more (wanted to give him a chance to come up with some). He said his phone was always there on the tv stand as soon as he got home til he slept and that he calls/texts/ and emails all day to stay in touch. He said I shouldn't worry, as OW changed her contact info. I said to him, so why haven't you? He's had the same number for 9 years and has never wanted to change it, which he repeated to me.

He gave me a long talk about how sorry he was he hurt me and how he hates himself for it. He said he wants nothing to do with OW or her husband (who was his close friend). He said that with the baby on the way, there was no way he would risk losing us as a family, nor bringing more heartache to those around us. I told him I appreciate that but could he still change his info. He said calmly that I have to learn to trust him. (Had to hold my tongue on that one).

I started asking about the EA again and at first he was totally willing to talk, until he began to let things slip. He had a second job that he quit shortly after the miscarriage in January. When I asked about his usual schedule in contacting her, he said he would always text her before going into his second job. I said, wait, you said the EA began the first week of March. When did it actually begin? He said he couldn't remember when it went from minister contact, to friendship contact, to relationship contact. Okay.....

He said, why are you asking all this now?! I thought we were past this. The therapist said not to go into more details and work on the present and the future remember? I told him that was a mistake because my imagination that fills in gaps is worse than him just telling my everything. I was not healing.

He said I had my chance and he didn't want to keep talking about it. That it made him feel like our marriage would never get better because I would never forgive him nor trust him. He said that thats why he had told me on D-day that he shouldn't stay with me. Not because he didn't love me, but because he had seen so many couples go through this and not have it work out due to lack of trust and forgiveness.

I told him he truly could not expect me to trust him so soon. He agreed. He said, yes, but next thing you know, you're gonna want to know how I kissed her! I said, actually that was my next question - how far did you guys really go? He screamed, oh my god, I can't do this right now. It's 12:30am, I'm on my sleeping pill. You can't talk to me at this time! This is the kind of stuff that takes away my hope in us. I'm leaving to the couch! And he left to the couch.

So, I'm definitely getting the phone bills tomorrow as I am highly suspicious. I need to figure out how to put a key logger on his work computer (works at an elementary school), as I think he may have another way to communicate during the week.

Even if he isn't, the excuse about the depression and this EA being triggered by the miscarriage is flying out the window. I looked more closely at the bank statements for January and he had coffee with her 9 days after. I think things were going on a long time before this for him to get the guts to go all the way to her work. I need the phone bills. Its Metropcs and keep getting error messages. Gotta wait til I go to the store at 9!

I'm afraid he's going to want to separate. At the same time, if it was a PA, I would want to. Especially after finding out it was way longer than the 3 weeks he quoted me. I need to teach him a lesson about dishonesty!


I'm 28, WH is 31, diagnosed with major depression
Married 8 1/2 years
9 weeks pregnant with first child

D-Day 3/19/13 - EA with close church friend confessed by him, I had no idea
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Okay, just put a tracker/voice recorder/picture taker on his phone.


I'm 28, WH is 31, diagnosed with major depression
Married 8 1/2 years
9 weeks pregnant with first child

D-Day 3/19/13 - EA with close church friend confessed by him, I had no idea
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Anybody have any words for me? I just sent him an email to work clarifying again my intentions for the requests and questions.


I'm 28, WH is 31, diagnosed with major depression
Married 8 1/2 years
9 weeks pregnant with first child

D-Day 3/19/13 - EA with close church friend confessed by him, I had no idea
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Quote
He gave me a long talk about how sorry he was he hurt me and how he hates himself for it. He said he wants nothing to do with OW or her husband (who was his close friend). He said that with the baby on the way, there was no way he would risk losing us as a family, nor bringing more heartache to those around us. I told him I appreciate that but could he still change his info. He said calmly that I have to learn to trust him. (Had to hold my tongue on that one).

YIKES !!!!

What a lot of gas-lighting you are being exposed to !!!

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Originally Posted by ResilientOne
He said I had my chance and he didn't want to keep talking about it. That it made him feel like our marriage would never get better because I would never forgive him nor trust him. He said that thats why he had told me on D-day that he shouldn't stay with me. Not because he didn't love me, but because he had seen so many couples go through this and not have it work out due to lack of trust and forgiveness.

Sit him down. Rested. Fed. In a good mood. Bring him a coffee.
You: "Honey, I want to get everything out so we can heal. This letter expresses my dilema. Please read this. I'll sit here and wait. Then, we can discuss"

Print out Joseph's letter.



Quote
Joseph's Letter.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"To Whomever,

"I know you are feeling the pain of guilt and confusion. I understand that you wish all this never happened and that you wish it would just go away. I can even believe that you truly love me and that your indiscretion hurts you emotionally much the same way it hurts me. I understand your apprehension to me discovering little by little, everything that led up to your indiscretion, everything that happened that night, and everything that happened afterwards. I understand. No one wants to have a mistake or misjudgment thrown in his or her face repeatedly. No one wants to be forced to "look" at the thing that caused all their pain over and over again. I can actually see, that through your eyes, you are viewing this whole thing as something that just needs to go away, something that is over, that he/she doesn't mean anything to you, so why is it such a big issue? I can understand you wondering why I torture myself with this continuously, and thinking, doesn't he/she know by now that I love him/her? I can see how you can feel this way and how frustrating it must be. But for the remainder of this letter I'm going to ask you to view my reality through my eyes.

"You were there. There is no detail left out from your point of view. Like a puzzle, you have all the pieces and you are able to reconstruct them and be able to understand the whole picture, the whole message, or the whole meaning. You know exactly what that picture is and what it means to you and if it can effect your life and whether or not it continues to stir your feelings. You have the pieces, the tools, and the knowledge. You can move through your life with 100% of the picture you compiled. If you have any doubts, then at least you're carrying all the information in your mind and you can use it to derive conclusions or answers to your doubts or question. You carry all the "STUFF" to figure out OUR reality. There isn't really any information, or pieces to the puzzle that you don't have.

"Now let's enter my reality. Let's both agree that this affects our lives equally. The outcome no matter what it is will affect us both. Our future and our present circumstances are every bit as important to me as it is to you. So, why then is it okay for me to be left in the dark? Do I not deserve to know as much about the night that nearly destroyed our relationship as you do? Just like you, I am also able to discern the meaning of certain particulars and innuendoes of that night and just like you, I deserve to be given the opportunity to understand what nearly brought our relationship down. To assume that I can move forward and accept everything at face value is unrealistic and unless we stop thinking unrealistically I doubt our lives well ever "feel" complete. You have given me a puzzle. It is a 1000 piece puzzle and 400 random pieces are missing. You expect me to assemble the puzzle without the benefit of looking at the picture on the box. You expect me to be able to discern what I am looking at and to appreciate it in the same context as you. You want me to be as comfortable with what I see in the picture as you are. When I ask if there was a tree in such and such area of the picture you tell me don't worry about it, it's not important. When I ask whether there were any animals in my puzzle you say don't worry about it, it's not important. When I ask if there was a lake in that big empty spot in my puzzle you say, what's the difference, it's not important. Then later when I'm expected to "understand" the picture in my puzzle you fail to understand my disorientation and confusion. You expect me to feel the same way about the picture as you do but deny me the same view as you. When I express this problem you feel compelled to admonish me for not understanding it, for not seeing it the way you see it. You wonder why I can't just accept whatever you chose to describe to me about the picture and then be able to feel the same way you feel about it.

"So, you want me to be okay with everything. You think you deserve to know and I deserve to wonder. You may honestly feel that the whole picture, everything that happened is insignificant because in your heart you know it was a mistake and wish it never happened. But how can I know that? Faith? Because you told me so? Would you have faith if the tables were turned? Don't you understand that I want to believe you completely? But how can I? I can never know what is truly in your mind and heart. I can only observe you actions, and what information I have acquired and slowly, over time rebuild my faith in your feelings. I truly wish it were easier.

"So, there it is, as best as I can put it. That is why I ask questions. That is where my need to know is derived from. And that is why it is unfair for you to think that we can effectively move forward and unfair for you to accuse me of dwelling on the past. My need to know stems from my desire to hold our world together. It doesn't come from jealousy, it doesn't come from spitefulness, and it doesn't come from a desire to make you suffer. It comes from the fact that I love you. Why else would I put myself through this? Wouldn't it be easier for me to walk away? Wouldn't it be easier to consider our relationship a bad mistake in my life and to move on to better horizons? Of course it would, but I can't and the reason I can't is because I love you and that reason in itself makes all the difference in the world."

(end of Joseph's Letter)


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Tell us how your WH responds to Joseph's letter.

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Thank you Pepperband, will do!


I'm 28, WH is 31, diagnosed with major depression
Married 8 1/2 years
9 weeks pregnant with first child

D-Day 3/19/13 - EA with close church friend confessed by him, I had no idea
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Originally Posted by ResilientOne
Thank you Pepperband, will do!

Your D-day ....
Quote
3/19/13

When is your expected due date?

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12/17/13. So yeah, we conceived days after D-day. I thought I had ovulated a week prior though. smirk

So, WH just called during lunch and he sounded more calm. Made sure I had eaten and everything. He said we will change his number and email address. I asked if everything was going to be ok between us, he said yes.

I will show him letter later!

Last edited by ResilientOne; 05/20/13 02:03 PM.

I'm 28, WH is 31, diagnosed with major depression
Married 8 1/2 years
9 weeks pregnant with first child

D-Day 3/19/13 - EA with close church friend confessed by him, I had no idea
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Posts: 35,996
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Originally Posted by ResilientOne
I will show him letter later!

Make the letter a positive step. Not a "got-ya" moment.

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You'd better get the back-statements for your bank & credit-cards, too, Resilient One. Like I said before, I don't think very many married women get around to asking married men to run away together with them, unless they've both got something they've done that they might really wanna run from.

And if your husband gets in the flow in response to Joseph's letter (which I do hope he will), then keep the vibes positive, but let him know that a polygraph on his part might do you a world of good toward putting your mind at ease.

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Originally Posted by ResilientOne
12/17/13. So yeah, we conceived days after D-day. I thought I had ovulated a week prior though. smirk


I am browsing WH depression posts and noticed your due date was yesterday. I hope you are doing well, ResilientOne.


BW (me)-31
WH - 33
M - 5 years
DD 3 years old
EA/PA - 5/2013
D-day - 6/29/2013. He refused NC.
I moved out with DD 9/2013.
Sold our home and made divorce arrangements.
Plan B - 12/8/2013
FR - 1/2014-3/2014
Divorced 4/2014
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I have looked at the spyware for her samsung phone and iPad but have not done that yet. I am trying to follow plan A except for the discussions we have about it. I believe the plan A is fill her love bank and snoop. I will read it again. Thank you


Married 37 years
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DD- married
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This moved to a new thread, sorry for the error


Married 37 years
DS- adult
DD- married
No grandkids
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