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mimi_y Offline OP
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I'd love to get some advice and answers to questions, here's my story:

We'll start with d-day:

3/19/13 - My husband had been apartment shopping for a few weeks now, we'd been discussing a trial separation for about a month and I was on board with it. We'd both been feeling indifferent for a while and I (foolishly) thought this would help us realize if we still wanted to be married. Prior to this, we had a 1 week separation this past december when he left xmas morning after some days of us arguing. So on 3/19, I happened to use his computer and his email was open, I decided to look around and was horrified to find out that he'd been having an affair for at least a year and a half. I confronted him that evening, he denied, said he couldn't talk about it and left. I was shocked that I was so upset, for the longest time I wanted something to bring me out of my indifference (my own affair fog) and this was it.
After a few days of him being gone, I decided to talk to him and let him know that I wanted to work on our marriage, that I wanted to be with him and that I was able to move on because I had my own brief affair back in Nov 2012 (lasted 3 weeks) and that I completely understood what he was going through (the fantasy, thinking they're the "soulmate", believing you married the wrong person, etc). I totally got it! He was completely closed off at this point, but the next day I showed up at his parents house for a big family get together and he took one look at me and decided he wanted to come back. We left 2 days later for a long planned family vacation and went thru a very nice honeymoon like phase. While on our trip we did some reading online on this and other sites and I thought we were in a recovery. At this point our parents, some siblings and close friends know about the affair and the OW knows that I know.

We come back home and start marriage therapy, she has us read SAA and it all makes sense to us. At this time, I learn how to check the cell phone records online and discover that he had been intermittently contacting the OW - twice from our family trip and several times since we'd been back home. I confront him about it, he says it won't happen again, he felt bad about the way he left it with her, it was just to catch up, etc. I made the mistake of admitting that I knew because of checking the phone records, so I lost that. I threatened that the next time I find them contacting each other, that i'm going to tell her boyfriend - in the beginning, we had sort of a deal that he wouldn't go beat up my AP and I would leave her alone.

As a condition for complete transparency, I demanded to be put on all bank accounts and have access to all phone records, key to his office, etc. As a result of having online access to bank accounts, I see that his gambling problem from about 6 years ago is back in full force - he'd been spending several days a week at casinos and was withdrawing more money than we could afford to spend. Around this time, I figure out how to track him through his phone and discover that he spent almost every day for an entire week at various casinos. This also happened to be at a time that she was out of the country on vacation - I suspect (but have no proof) that he saw her the day before she left.

My own personal therapist urges me to do something about the gambling. In the past, I've always put my foot down with this man, but now, under these circumstances, being afraid that he's going to leave, I was allowing him to go down this downward spiral. I confront him (nicely) about the gambling and express my desire to get him help. He gets angry and claims that I can't take away his gambling too. I decided to get his family involved and we have an intervention - he's open to getting help and starts therapy and GA meetings. This all happened the week before last.

So here we are, in a recovery or false recovery, I don't know. I have some decent detective work going on, but there may be some loopholes since he knows about most of it (checking phone records, tracking thru phone). I think if they are still continuing the affair, I will be able to find out eventually. I'm willing to just pop-in on him now, check the parking lot at his office for her car, etc.

Some points that may or may not be useful:

- There is no pull back with him. When we are together, everything's great. We're working on fulfilling each others emotional needs and spending lots of time together.

- I'm a stay at home mom and he's the breadwinner. Because of the gambling and other financial situations we would have an extremely difficult time financially in a plan B. I'd fully expect for him to cut me off and i would have NO money and no family to live with.

- He was in the hospital in January with panic attacks - caused by him trying to decide to stay or go

- Reading over various texts and emails during the course of their affair, she mentions pregnancy scares quite a bit and I'm worried that if he's continuing the affair or in a plan B, that she will try to get pregnant.

- My AP was my personal trainer. I left my gym and have cut all contact with him. I'm completely out of my fog.

- Their plan was for my husband to move into his apartment and then she would wait 6 months to make sure that he wasn't going to come back to me and then she would leave her boyfriend and move in.


Questions:

- Is this recovery or plan A or both?

- What happens if I discover them still having contact? Start with full exposure and go to plan A since I didn't really do that the first time? Or move straight to plan B?

- If I caught them in person, which is likely how i'd catch them since they would be working around the measures I put in place, do I confront them in person or just drive off and confront him when he gets home? Do I at any point contact her? Now? Or if i find them still having contact?

- When it comes to full exposure - one of my main worries is that since this is her boyfriend (of 7 years) and not her husband, that he would just leave her if he found out and then that makes her available for my husband. I think one of my husband's main fears is that if he would leave me for her, but in the end she wouldn't leave her boyfriend. Would it be helpful for my situation for her boyfriend to know? I'm thinking not.

- Do we even bother with marriage therapy? The woman we were seeing, although she rec'd this great book, wasn't terribly helpful and said that she didn't really think we should continue anyways since he was lying about the gambling. My husband says he doesn't like her and wants to find someone new. I think I found something in another thread about marriage therapy not being that useful. Paying for multiple therapists (mine, his addiction therapist and the marriage therapist) is not really something we can afford. I'm confused.


Any other advice would be greatly appreciated!

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Welcome to MB.

You aren't in recovery. He is cake eating with having you both meeting his needs.

You need to expose. You don't know what her BF will do with this knowledge but he needs to know.

If he won't end the affair then you must go to Plan B.

Was your affair ever exposed?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Also have you read all of these?
Start Here First-Welcome Aboard


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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mimi_y Offline OP
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Thanks!
One thing that confuses me about plan A - from what I understand of it, you are with the WS showing them what a great spouse you can be with the knowledge that they are still seeing the other person? Or is it once you see that they are still having contact with the AP, you move to plan B? Even if you've only been in plan A a short period of time? I read that moving straight to plan B doesn't work. I was thinking that within 3 months of d-day (6/18) if I see that they are still having contact, that then I would move to plan B. At this point he swears he hasn't had any contact with her and I have no proof otherwise. The only known contact was exactly 1 month ago. He appears to be very happy here and is constantly telling me and the kids how much he loves us / loves his family.

Exposure - My parents, siblings and friends found out from me on d-day. His parents knew before I did because he had been prepping them for his leaving me. Telling them how awful I was and that he'd been seeing someone else. Most of his friends already knew as well and had been covering for him. He's been pretty open to talking to many of his friends about every part of our ordeal.

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Originally Posted by honey7
Thanks!
One thing that confuses me about plan A - from what I understand of it, you are with the WS showing them what a great spouse you can be with the knowledge that they are still seeing the other person? Or is it once you see that they are still having contact with the AP, you move to plan B? Even if you've only been in plan A a short period of time? I read that moving straight to plan B doesn't work. I was thinking that within 3 months of d-day (6/18) if I see that they are still having contact, that then I would move to plan B. At this point he swears he hasn't had any contact with her and I have no proof otherwise. The only known contact was exactly 1 month ago. He appears to be very happy here and is constantly telling me and the kids how much he loves us / loves his family.

Exposure - My parents, siblings and friends found out from me on d-day. His parents knew before I did because he had been prepping them for his leaving me. Telling them how awful I was and that he'd been seeing someone else. Most of his friends already knew as well and had been covering for him. He's been pretty open to talking to many of his friends about every part of our ordeal.
Dr. Harley recommends Plan A for BW no longer than 3 weeks and if the WH won't stop the affair and commit to recovery then go to Plan B.

Plan A is both carrot and stick.
Read this. Carrot and Stick of Plan A


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Did he write a NC letter to the OW?

Who did you expose to on OW's side? Her BF needs to know.


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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mimi_y Offline OP
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what's BW? i didn't see it on the list of abbrev.

no NC letter - he claims they had their final "we can't talk" phone call when i said i would tell her BF if they continue to have contact.

exposure on OW's side - her boss is my husband's best friend who has been in love with her for years. he knows. he caught them together at his house because that's where my husband goes when we separate. i met with him and he talked to her about staying away.

i know what i'm about to say is crazy - i know i'm a great catch and he would be insane to leave me, but at the same time - she's exactly what he would want (attractive, fun, young, an attorney like him, she practices the type of law he wants to get into, sexual, supportive and on and on). i'm afraid if we went to plan B that he wouldn't come back. he's also not the type to come crawling back and thinks that so much damage has been done that it's best to move on.

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BW = Betrayed Wife


Markos' Wife
FWW - EA
8 kids ...
What to do with an Angry Husband

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BW=Betrayed wife


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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mimi_y Offline OP
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ok. i read he recommends 3 months for a BW and 6 months for a BH. that's how i came up with 6/18. but i'm still confused - if you find out before that time is up that the affair is still continuing, you move straight to plan B or do you wait until that time is up? then go to plan B.

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another thing - we read SAA together and he's familiar with all of this

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Hi honey, welcome to Marriage Builders. I have read through your post and the first place I would start is exposure. You need to do this to ensure that the affair is killed off. The more people who know, the more people to hold him accountable.

I would start with the OW's boyfriend and then go to your husband's family and close friends. The affair should also be exposed to the OW's family. Does she have a facebook account? Go read my exposure thread to get exposure tactics and talking points.

The second big missing piece is your husband's lifestyle. He should account to you for all his leisure time. His lifestyle is set up now in a way that would support a secret second life. That has to go. All of his leisure time should be spent with YOU. His life should be absolutely transparent, giving you full access to his phone, email, etc. Any phone #s or emails that were used by the SKANK should be eliminated so she can never get through.

Additionally, he should never spend the night apart from your OR have any opposite sex friendships. That is how affairs start.

Unless he can GUARANTEE and PROVE that contact has ended for life, then you are not safe and should go into Plan B.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by honey7
ok. i read he recommends 3 months for a BW and 6 months for a BH. that's how i came up with 6/18. but i'm still confused - if you find out before that time is up that the affair is still continuing, you move straight to plan B or do you wait until that time is up? then go to plan B.

No, he recommends THREE WEEKS for women.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Quote
MelodyLane:

The primary reason for abandoning plan A for plan B is protection. The stress experienced in plan A (trying to care for someone too long who is hurting you more deeply than you ever have, or ever will, experience) can leave you physically and emotionally damaged. So the question each person must ask themselves is, "how tough am I?"

My experience is that men are tougher mentally and physically than women. By that, I mean that women seem to start falling apart emotionally and physically after just a few months, or even a few weeks, of plan A. Men, on the other hand, seem to be able to keep it up for years before experiencing health problems.

If I don't know a person too well, I tend to lean to the safe side by recommending 3-4 weeks of plan A for women, and 6 months for men. But if a woman is no worse for wear after a few weeks, or a man is feeling okay after 6 months, there's no reason to end plan A at that point. As you can see, it's inexact, and depends on how the person is doing. A good support system (like the support people often receive on the Forum) can often keep a person in plan A much longer.

Best wishes
Willard F. Harley, Jr.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubb...in=151015&Number=2069970#Post2069970

radio clip about Plan A and length of time: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/play_segment.cfm?sid=2793


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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mimi_y Offline OP
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what would be adequate proof that it was over?

if i can handle plan a still, then i should stick with it? we have some trips booked in the next month for the both us and i feel like we're on a good roll. this time would be depositing a lot of love units after almost 2 years of us being very disconnected. plus, he just gave up the gambling (and pot) cold turkey and is getting help, i don't want that to fall by the wayside if we go to plan b. i feel like she'll see that we're staying together and move on.

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so for the steps to take right now: exposure -> stay in plan a (unless he gets pissed and leaves) -> move to plan b if any contact occurs after that

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Originally Posted by honey7
what would be adequate proof that it was over?

He will have to PROVE it to you. That would be adequate.

Quote
if i can handle plan a still, then i should stick with it? we have some trips booked in the next month for the both us and i feel like we're on a good roll. this time would be depositing a lot of love units after almost 2 years of us being very disconnected. plus, he just gave up the gambling (and pot) cold turkey and is getting help, i don't want that to fall by the wayside if we go to plan b. i feel like she'll see that we're staying together and move on.

No, she won't move on seeing you are staying together. That means nothing to her.

You can handle Plan A for THREE WEEKS. Don't take it longer than that.

Did you read my suggestions for exposure?

I think you are going to have a much harder time saving this marriage than most, I am sorry to say. Your H has drug and gambling addictions, doesn't he? Is he also an alcoholic?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by honey7
so for the steps to take right now: exposure -> stay in plan a (unless he gets pissed and leaves)

You would move to Plan B if he won't agree to your conditions. I would expose the affair everywhere and present him with a list of conditions he has to meet. These conditions would be extraordinary precautions to prevent another affair. We can help you with this list of conditions.

Quote
-> move to plan b if any contact occurs after that

Move to Plan B if he can't PROVE contact has ended and he won't adhere to your conditions.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Can you go read my exposure thread and start preparing your exposure strategy? Come back and post it and we can give you feedback.

Does he work with this skank? How did he meet her?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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mimi_y Offline OP
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no, he's not an alcoholic - it's pot and gambling. he's given them both up before and he feels much better in general when they're gone. he's been self-destructing since the affair.

i'm still not sure about the proof - at this time, he swears there's no contact, there's nothing on the phone records and i track him on gps all day long, i see every stop and for how long. how else could he prove it?

he's also agreed to all my conditions thus far - i have access to cell phone and business records, track him thru his phone and he leaves the location services "on" (he's unaware of car tracking), i have the passwords to all email accounts, cell phone, all bank accounts, credit cards and a key to his office. he accounts for all of his time. i feel like we're on the right track at *this* moment, but worried about it starting up again. she just got back in town yesterday and this will be the first time with her around that i've had all my tracking in place.

i have read up on exposure. i wish i had read all of it on d-day. i've started preparing a list and how to contact each person.

she works for his best friend, they met thru him.


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