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Originally Posted by maritalbliss
Her CHOICE to have an affair is a CHOICE. It's not the result of a bad childhood, or any other 'emotional' thing. We ALL have baggage from childhood that we bring into our adulthood. What we do with that baggage is a CHOICE.

I agree.

Originally Posted by maritalbliss
So I just want you to know that you're going to have to work pretty darned hard to convince me that your WW is some hothouse flower who was dragged into infidelity against her will. I will probably be one of the hardest posters you'll come up against here, when it comes to blaming infidelity on some vague issue from childhood or from some other lack of...whatever.

I don't think that's what I'm saying at all. I'm not trying to make excuses for her behavior. Not at all. I'm simply arguing against the notion that people who have never met her can use examples of her behavior as absolute proof that she had a physical affair. That's all. It's a completely different argument.

Originally Posted by maritalbliss
Conversely, I'm going to be YOUR champion to recovering your marriage and not allowing your WW to dodge her responsibility for her terrible decision to betray you.
Just so you know.

I appreciate that. And I appreciate everyone's good intentions here. I know you all have lots of experience and have my best interests in mind. I really do get that. I just know the person I married, and that person would never have cheated on me. She was a paragon of morality when I met her. BUT she is NOT that person anymore. That's been obvious to me for a while. She's done things she said she'd never do, and that has been very hard for me to swallow. But would she really have sex with another man? A married man who's more than 25 years older than she is? I really doubt it, but I can't say for sure. That would certainly shed a whole new light on this whole experience, and I don't quite know what I'd do with that information if I had it.

Last edited by metrognome; 05/30/13 10:00 PM.

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Originally Posted by metrognome
Originally Posted by markos
Originally Posted by metrognome
I would be happy to accept that my wife had an affair if she admitted it

You just posted that she admitted it!

She admitted to an emotional affair. She VEHEMENTLY denied a physical one.

That means she admitted to an affair.

An emotional affair is just as damaging to a marriage as a physical affair.

To say that an emotional affair is not an affair is offensive to many hurting people on this site.

She admitted to an affair. The fact that it was emotional does not mean "she was not having an affair." It means the exact opposite!!

I think you need to accept that your wife had an affair, because she admitted it.

Denial is not just a river in Egypt.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

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Originally Posted by metrognome
I appreciate that. And I appreciate everyone's good intentions here. I know you all have lots of experience and have my best interests in mind. I really do get that. I just know the person I married, and that person would never have cheated on me. She was a paragon of morality when I met her. BUT she is NOT that person anymore. That's been obvious to me for a while. She's done things she said she'd never do, and that has been very hard for me to swallow. But would she really have sex with another man? A married man who's more than 25 years older than she is? I really doubt it, but I can't say for sure. That would certainly shed a whole new light on this whole experience, and I don't quite know what I'd do with that information if I had it.

People do all kinds of crazy stuff when they get into an affair, because an affair is like an addiction to drugs. It's as if they are possessed by an alien.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
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Originally Posted by maritalbliss
metro, I'm going to strike out all the stuff that is immaterial to her affair. Ready?

...

This has NOTHING TO DO WITH HER AFFAIR.

Again, that's not what I was saying. I'm really starting to wonder if people here are reading what I'm posting. None of that was to "explain" her affair, it was meant to show she has emotional issues and possibly a personality disorder. People here are saying that people "in their right minds" don't leave their kids and such, so therefore, she must have had a physical affair. I'm saying she's not quite in her right mind, and her behavior is not solid proof of a physical affair. Some of you people are working from the assumption that she did have a physical affair and everything else you read is colored by that assumption. You may be right, but you may not be too.


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Originally Posted by metrognome
Also, if anyone has advice on how to meet emotional needs of an ex-wife, I'd be all ears. That's the kind of advice I'm really after.

To learn how to do this, stick around, start listening to Marriage Builders Radio and reading the articles on this site, and reading other threads on this forum.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
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FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Originally Posted by metrognome
I'm not quite sure she's really in her right mind.

Exactly! She has developed something that Dr. Harley says resembles a heroin addiction!

Quote
I believe she's depressed and has deep emotional issues she's not dealing with.

This is very, very typical for women in an affair. The affair causes depression and lots of emotional issues.

Read this description by Pepperband and see if it matches:
http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2242070#Post2242070


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
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If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Originally Posted by markos
An emotional affair is just as damaging to a marriage as a physical affair.

My marriage is over. It's damaged. I get it. They may be equally damaging, but they are not equal.

Originally Posted by markos
To say that an emotional affair is not an affair is offensive to many hurting people on this site.

I didn't say that, and I'm not trying to offend anyone.



Last edited by metrognome; 05/30/13 10:15 PM.

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Originally Posted by metrognome
But would she really have sex with another man? A married man who's more than 25 years older than she is? I really doubt it, but I can't say for sure.

It happens all the time.

People who have affairs "affair DOWN." They usually wind up with someone lousier than their spouse. Less pretty, less money, less smarts, less brains, less relationship skills, less commitment, aging, falling out hair and maybe teeth (I'm serious!). It's bizarre but true.

Why?

Because DECENT people are not having affairs!


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
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Originally Posted by metrognome
Originally Posted by markos
An emotional affair is just as damaging to a marriage as a physical affair.

My marriage is over. It's damaged. I get it. They may be equally damaging, but they are not equal.

They are for purposes of using the tools on this site.

Quote
Originally Posted by markos
To say that an emotional affair is not an affair is offensive to many hurting people on this site.

I didn't say that, and I'm not trying to offend anyone.

I know, my friend, but the important thing is that you stop denying that she had an affair. You can't solve the problem if you are denying it exists, you know?

A thought: the affair is the worst thing that has ever happened to your son. Whether you recover your marriage or not, your son will be better off the sooner the affair is OVER.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
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Originally Posted by metrognome
Originally Posted by maritalbliss
metro, I'm going to strike out all the stuff that is immaterial to her affair. Ready?

...

This has NOTHING TO DO WITH HER AFFAIR.

Again, that's not what I was saying. I'm really starting to wonder if people here are reading what I'm posting. None of that was to "explain" her affair, it was meant to show she has emotional issues and possibly a personality disorder.

maritalbliss's point is that your wife DOESN'T have those things. What she has is a heroin addiction. I mean an affair. They are (in a sense) the same thing.

It explains a lot, doesn't it?


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

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Originally Posted by maritalbliss
metro, I'm going to strike out all the stuff that is immaterial to her affair. Ready?

Quote
She is big into self preservation. She is hyper vigilant about safety, both physical and emotional. Her father was a career corrections officer, and he pretty much brainwashed both my ex and her sister that every other person you meet on the street is a murderer or a rapist. She once told me she believed that something like 25% of the population was either a murder or a rapist (I can't remember the exact figure she stated, but it revealed to me what a warped perspective she has when it comes to this kind of thing, and it explained just how fearful of a person she really us.) Some of her favorite reading material is "true crime" and she has read lots of stuff about criminal psychology and such.

She also has a long history of writing people off: pushing them out of her life permanently. When someone offends her one too many times, they are blacklisted forever. She has done this to several of her friends and even her grandparents. For several years she kept her own father at arm's length because of an overzealous corporal punishment he gave her when she was 12. She did not discuss that with him till she was close to 30. Since then they have been on pretty good terms.


This has NOTHING TO DO WITH HER AFFAIR.


It also has NOTHING to do with RECOVERY. If you want your wife back, none of this matters in getting her back.


Markos' Wife
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What to do with an Angry Husband

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If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
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I strongly encourage you to take yourself through a course of self-education around here:

Dr. Harley's video about infidelity:
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi1001_infidelity0.html

Dr. Harley's Q&A columns about surviving an affair:
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/mb2.cfm?recno=4&sublink=33

Dr. Harley's Basic Concepts:
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/mb3.cfm?recno=3

Marriage Builders Radio:
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/mb3.cfm?recno=12

Everything I have linked is given away by Dr. Harley for free and has saved hundreds if not thousands of marriages.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

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Quote
it was meant to show she has emotional issues and possibly a personality disorder.
And we're telling you that those things don't matter smile It is irrelevant to winning her back and recovering your marriage.

Quote
Some of you people are working from the assumption that she did have a physical affair and everything else you read is colored by that assumption. You may be right, but you may not be too.
Whether the affair was just emotional or physical, it doesn't matter. The methods of recovery are the same.

People are telling you that it is likely it was physical, because odds are it was. But, regardless, it doesn't change what you will need to do.


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Quote
Again, that's not what I was saying. I'm really starting to wonder if people here are reading what I'm posting.
metro, none of those things tells me that she has a personality disorder or any other emotional disorder. She sounds like an average adult with some baggage. Like the rest of us. Are you trying to say that there is something about her upbringing that has caused a deficiency in her, to excuse erratic behavior? I'm not sure where you're going with this.
Quote
Some of you people are working from the assumption that she did have a physical affair and everything else you read is colored by that assumption.
No, we don't need to read anything else. I'm sorry if this sounds flip, but we've seen scenario play out many times before.


D-Day 2-10-2009
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Thank you Marriage Builders!

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Quote
Desperately seeking reconciliation

If this is what you are seeking, the people posting to you represent your best chance to get it. What they are telling you is important.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
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Originally Posted by metrognome
I just know the person I married, and that person would never have cheated on me. She was a paragon of morality when I met her.

I could have (and have) written the exact same 2 sentances about my FWW.

Under the right conditions, everyone is prone to an A.

Everyone.




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Originally Posted by metrognome
Some of you people are working from the assumption that she did have a physical affair and everything else you read is colored by that assumption. You may be right, but you may not be too.

You are 100% correct. There is a POSSIBILITY there was no PA.
None of us know for sure. None of us were there.

Until you are able to gather irrefutable evidence, you may never know for sure.

However, as has been stated numerous times, the chain of events you shared with us point directly to the EXTREMELY high probability it was indeed a PA..for a very long time. We have seen the same story written time and time again...just like yours.

I would venture to guess that of us BS�s on this board less than 1 or 2% would have ever guessed their spouse would have committed adultery. To most of us it was a complete and total shock. Total devastation.

Now, would most reasonable people experience this type of devastation if we ever imagined our spouse would cheat? No. Of course not.

That is what you are not getting. ALL people are wired for A�s. That is why MB teaches how to A-proof your M to make it virtually impossible for your mate to cheat. Part of the beauty of the program.

Your former W seems to have had many problems in life that may have made her more prone for an A..however it was her Choices that lead her down that path. I assume no one had a gun to her head.

Somehow you are going to have to do some investigation to find out for sure. Then you can figure out what you want to do.

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Originally Posted by markos
falling out hair and maybe teeth (I'm serious!). It's bizarre but true.

HEY! Watch it, I'm follically challenged and I'm the BS!!
grin


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