You're trying to change a person into something they never were. Can you recall any woman say "he was a terrible boyfriend but a fantastic husband!"? I'm not sure those words have ever been uttered in history...

Update..

He called me and wants to meet up for lunch Tuesday. The conversation was dominated again by him. I did tell him I want to show him a plan that will help us which is POJA. Then the gaslighting began and told me that I need something for my insecurities and anxiety. I told him right out; "That maybe the insecurity is there because you lied to me about being with your XW?!" I told him I was deeply hurt.

What do I say to him when I bring that up? He will use the excuse that he doesn't like the way I react when he brings them up and does something with them. How do I stop him from turning my question on to me? He's very good at it.

How many people did not agree at first to the POJA? How did the person convince them that this is a good idea? I'm sooo afraid that he will be reluctant towards me.

So, how do I gently tell him this? How do I tell him this without allowing him twisting???? How do I keep him on track? If he responds and doesn't validate my feelings and turns this on me, then I'll know right there, I should start preparing myself.

If my bf ever told me anything like that, I'd be gone faster than he could blink an eye. This is gaslighting at it's finest. What you "need for your insecurities and anxiety" is an honest bf who will take your feelings into consideration. Your anxiety is situational. Who wouldn't feel anxious knowing their bf is lying to them? Or putting the ex-wife before you?

You CANNOT communicate with someone who is abusing you when you try to talk to him. All that will do is make you want to argue with him, which is his intent to distract you and throw you off the point, or to throw your anger at the situation back in your face.

When you told this man you were deeply hurt, that should have made him want to figure out what he did to hurt you, not IGNORE your pain and cause more by telling you seek help for anxiety. I am so mad at him right now.

Your boyfriend thinks he can have a relationship with the ex-wife and you. He doesn't need to "parent" with the ex-wife. He can parent his son the way he sees fit, and the ex can do the same without each other's involvement. It's called parallel parenting. They may need to exchange a few e-mails every now and then about things to do with the son, but that's it. In fact, since the son is over 18 there shouldn't be much more to discuss for long.



He will use every excuse in the book and turn your questions around on you because over the course of his life he's learned that that's how he can manipulate you into giving up what you're asking for. You cannot argue with people like this.

ALL YOU CAN DO is to state your boundary to him about not wanting other women in your relationship. Tell him you are willing to deal with this issue using poja. Give him the article to read. Also tell him you won't continue the relationship until he will poja all issues with you, including this one.

There is no need to figure out what to say to him when he tries to argue with you, because you're not asking him any questions for him to turn around on you. You are stating facts only, then walk away.

You can politely ask him to read the article and let him know you will give him a few days to make a decision. DO NOT go in thinking you're going to negotiate with him on your boundary. You don't negotiate boundaries. It's a line in the sand for you. The only thing you will negotiate is how any contact with the ex will take place, that you're agreeable to. And I would let him know that negotiations won't take place unless he's read the article and he understands what it means, and most importantly, that he is agreeable to poja.



The only cases I've heard of are the ones where the partner is fed up and is ready to walk. And I mean really are walking or have already walked out the door.




Why be so afraid to lose a freeloader? It's not like you'd be losing any real prize, don't ya think?

What you need to be afraid of is staying in this BS if he doesn't turn around.

Remember, there will be no "discussion", until he agrees to poja all issues with you. You are only stating facts.



If he is not on board with poja, that IS your answer.

Ali,

Your signature is:
"It's your life, you choose how you live it!"

Are you choosing the same path as before? All the pre-marriage advice of MB will say this relationship should have ended already.

Is this the same guy?
http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/u...in=165019&Number=2561446#Post2561446

He told you flat out that you weren't his priority 2 years ago and you're still trying to make him see you as a priority 2 years later.

You can't force him to want to be a good boyfriend to you. You can't. It's been years of the same and the only thing he's learned is that you're willing to tolerate the status quo.

Sounds like the same guy to me....This is a post of yours Ali from 11/2013


Alis is right.

Ali, your boyfriend told you in 2 yrs ago you weren't his priority, and he's telling you the same thing now.

He is not the one with the problem anymore Ali. You are.

He has been completely open and honest with you for years about how he plans to run his life and where you fit in it, making you second priority. And now you want to blame him for your unhappiness?

You have signed up for this. You asked for what you wanted from him repeatedly and he has told you it's not going to happen. Your unhappiness is all on you now.

Stop looking for advice on how to change this man's mind.

How HE treats you is not a reflection of you, but how YOU allow him to treat you is.

Ali, did you read markos' post to you, below? I've bolded the last line for you.



I would not bring up the POJA to him tomorrow. I would make your boundaries known to him:
1. The Time Out business stops. This is a manipulative tool that is damaging to your relationship.
2. No more DJ's (your anxiety issues??) Let him know these are hurtful to you and you will no longer listen to these mean statements.
3. You would like a more open line of communication regarding his involvement with other women (ie his ex.)

If he refuses to agree with these very reasonable boundaries I would suggest you end this relationship.

I need to throw something else in here: you say you are totally financially independent of him, but I'm reading between the lines and seeing some anger over his financial dealings with his ex and son. You strike me as feeling slighted in this regard. The post about needing a new computer and your friends' questions about why your boyfriend hasn't bought you one was interesting. I get the impression on a certain level that you agree with your friends. If this is the case, your resentment won't help you.

Ali88, I may have missed it in this thread, but why did your BF divorce his wife? What happened?

And I am not sure what you think there is to save here. Dating is a job interview for marriage. The whole purpose is to select the candidate who does the best job of making you happy. He has failed in so many ways that it is hard to know where to start.

Why would you even consider staying with a man who doesn't want to marry you, is thoughtless, and has told you in so many ways that you come BEHIND his Xwife and his son? How could you even envision for a second you could be happy under those conditions?

You have some choices before you. One will involve short term pain and long term pain [staying with this guy - IF he hasn't dumped you] or short term pain and long term gain. If you would dump this dog, you would be free to find a man who could do a good job of meeting your needs and putting you FIRST. But as long as you are sitting around as this man's OPTION, you won't have that chance.

And I find it striking that he has not asked you to marry him in FOUR YEARS. That tells me he has no intention of marrying you. I would have dumped this guy about three years ago if he hadn't asked me to marry him. A 40 year old couple doesn't need over 2 years to decide if this is the right person to marry. They are mature enough to make that decision in a year, IMO.

Hi..

Sorry been away for awhile, but I just need to answer a few questions before I pick up my two children.

I feel that he keeps the dangling carrot in my face when he talks about a future. But there always seems to be an excuse. Sometimes I feel like I'm being punished for his XW mistakes and I'm paying the price. I'm just saying...The first excuse was, wait until son finishes high school, then BF didn't graduate on time with his masters so he had to wait a semester later! So I had to wait until he was done with school. Now? What is he waiting for??

What get's me sooo damn angry is that he had moved in with a women in the apartment he lives in now after 3 months or so of dating her. I know there was diamond earrings gifted and such to her. But obviously that relationship didn't last as she also felt neglected. So yes, I do feel slighted. Not saying he hasn't done anything. He had put me on his phone plane because my phone plan merged with Sprint. And being on his plan would be beneficial for the both of us. BUT I should be living with him or have a diamond on my hand. The pc just made me open my eyes a little that the reason why he says he can't afford anything is now because he's putting money aside to help is kid to pay for a car. Boy does that kid get a free ride and he wants to know why he's self centered and demanding???

Recently, my best friend (who I had met on MB) Moved in after 5 months of dating her guy and they are planning a wedding. I had
told my BF that and he said; "wow that was fast, don't you think?" I said the exact same thing, They are old enough to know what they want and besides, you rushed in with Jennifer!!!!! I know remark was not necessary but I wanted to make a point.

So to say the fact that he doesn't want to marry me, isn't there. He does tell me he want a future with me. And in the heat of the moment in our HUGE argument Thursday, he said when we are married then it will be your business. Yeah, I said something dumb following that statement which was; "We are never going to get married as long as your guilt has you by your balls."

Now my question is, in the POJA Isn't a demand if I tell him I prefer the three of you stop acting like a family to your grown son" Especially visiting their pets grave together the other day.

As this moment, the hurt is overbearing and in the heat of the moment I just want to walk away. But I'm not thinking clearly. I'm angry.

Ok, I will get back to the other questions a bit later...

BTW, Melodylane, I remember you...

It's not there? Are you married? Do you have a date? A ring? You have nothing. If he wanted to marry you, he would have married you. I think it is cute and winsome that he says he wants a future with you, but as we say in Texas: "talk is cheap!" Money talks and bull**** walks. If he were serious you have been married a long time ago. It doesn't take 4 years to make a decision.

Where are his actions that demonstrate he wants a future with you?

I wouldn't be angry that he shacked up with some woman and didn't shack up with you because you can see how that ended. Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free? Those types of relationships are short lived. Those that do end up in marriage don't stay married for long because of the poor habits developed while living together. [85% divorce rate] It's too bad your friend from MB moved in with her boyfriend, because that will ruin her relationship. Forty something women should really know better.

Why in the world would you want to live with him as a roomie with benefits?? What in the world would that accomplish? I can't wrap my mind around that half-assed compromise of a kinda/sorta commitment.

This statement means NOTHING. You know that, right? You appear to be a relatively smart gal. I have a future with my employer - as long as I'm at that job. I have a future with my mailman - as long as I live here. I have a future with my dry cleaner - unless I decide to go to another one. This is a thoughtless, time-buying statement that is meant to appease you and means ZERO.

Uh-huh. Here's the time-buying part of his equation. See my statements, above.

You are trying to instill buyer principles on a freeloader. You're wasting your time.

You are wasting your good years.

You are making excuses.

You had a good time, now move on, find somebody that does want to spend time with you, that actually values you. Don't set yourself up for failure.

I'm exhausted and my brain is in knots...

Got TONS of wonderful insight from here and while I was talking to him, what all of you had said was weaving in and out of my mind. A seed has been planted....

Just a side note, as we all know relationships are always beautiful in the beginning and best foot is always put forward. But what kills, is when your heart becomes deep before that old familiar pattern; "we gravitate to those who are familiar...!"

Sure, of course in the beginning we all put our foot forward, but then you have to move to the renter stage and to the buyer stage!

Maybe if you don't know any better.

I've learned a lot here. Every one posting on this thread knows better than to settle for what you're settling for.

You're not planting seeds. You're cementing boundaries, which you haven't done for yourself. Have you even read up on boundaries????

In your case, I lean toward the old chestnut: "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over, and expecting different results."

Hello,

Kids homework and exhaustion has left me unable to post.

I haven't read boundaries yet. But I will.

When I was on the healing edge of the JFO forum, it was easier to put myself on the other side of the fence as I could help someone and say; "Hey look, this guy is a complete [censored]. Why are you doing this to yourself....!" But to the BS, they couldn't see past the pain in their heart. I'm afraid that's where I stand again. Not by a BS, but a man who does not put me as number one. I think that is where a lot of my hurt and anger stems from because I will never be. I look back at the man who I had married, the long term relationship I had before this one, to the relationship I am with now and there is a pattern. I was never number one in any of their lives. Now that is my problem. With my current, I kept things slow in the beginning, he was moving too fast. I had my own demons I had to conquer before I could totally take him in. But when he did, he just poured right in. Just like they all did. Just like all of my relationships, short and long, they were all beautiful in the beginning.

Um. At some point you chose to stop being in control. That's not their problem. That's yours to solve.

Relationships are ALWAYS beautiful in the beginning. The real work starts when both people relax and show themselves for how they really are.

Now you know. What do you plan to do?