Spoke with SS today via SIL. Was a very good talk he thanked me for the letters and gifts and wants to come home. WW also told him a TD is the bad guy version of the court date. Basically saying I don't want DS around SS and I hate him. He knows it isn't true because of the letters. Thanks for the idea klove. SIL/MIL wants me to come visit them but I'm not so sure about that. Turns out SIL got married and WW didn't even go to the wedding, just sad. I feel her family sees the truth and regretting their inactions. I asked if SS can come stay the summer and awaiting a response on Saturday.

SS claims WW doesn't trust me lol. I reminded him that I didn't secretly run off with POSOM and abandoned SS and DS in PR. He knows his mom is acting crazy and resents her for it. He feels he has no power because he's a kid. I assured him that isn't true and we talked a out video games and movies. Had me on the phone for about 2 hours lol. SIL/MIL said we can call anytime now and talk to him and said God bless me. Feels weird having my guard up around them but I don't fully trust them. I'm sure they are upset with WW but don't do anything about it.

Don't trust them.
Blood is thicker than water.
I have learned that through experience

That's fantastic that you were able to talk to DSS. I hope he is able to come home for the summer and possibly longer.

Keep the letters going especially of he isn't allowed to come home for the summer.

Does your WW have to give her permission?

I wouldn't ask for ww permission.
I would deal with the mil and SIL directly.
Ww has abandoned her husband and children
As this continues, TQ, I see how similar your wife and my ex are by their actions and I was in your shoes but am starting to develop an idea that a woman and mother that chooses to abandon her family for the same of another man (and a drug addict at that) really isn't marriage and mother material anyway

TD,
It's not a matter of trust with the in-laws. Its a matter of simply understanding that they are blood relatives to WW and their loyalties will be to her. But if they were truly loyal to her, they would have stood up for her marriage, but alas, most don't have that understanding.

In any event, the truth has emerged. She has abandoned her children. Just be a good step father to SS and they will have your respect and admiration. Depend on them for nothing, and you'll be fine. You can still be their friends, which is nice.

I'm not saying to ask WW for permission. I'm worried that MIL will say she has to ask WW for permission (like she did before with allowing DSS to talk on the phone).

Just be prepared TD for this to be a possibility.

MIL may not intentionally let WW know (or she may!) but it would be good to pre-empt that sort of thing somehow. I'm not sure how you'd do that though--he already knows that the separation is not on you, and that if contact stops it's not your fault, right?

I would take care how you talk about ww with ss. You could say that she is making poor decisions, but encourage ss to not disrespect Her. Ask him to pray for her. This may help him not be too bitter, but also if mil/sil or even ww talk to him, they will hear through him that you are not bad mouthing her.

I'm happy that the letters worked well, and that would be awesome for you and the kids if he were able to come and stay with you.I will be praying for that.

Thanks for the responses I don't bad mouth just said what she doing is wrong and he shouldn't think this is normal behavior. Husbands don't have girlfriends and wives don't have boyfriends. Also told him if he meets POSOM let me know and memorize my number if he is in trouble. That POSOM was arrested for inappropriately touching his daughter and he is a creep.

Glad to hear ss is ok and fingers crossed he gets to spend summer with you and ds.

WW just called. She was asking for a W-2 she gave me. I still need W-2s from her in the conversation where she was angry with me. I told her I cannot give it to her because she was swearing. She claims to have emailed me the W-2 I need and I have yet to receive it. She also claims that the car I bought her and she ran away with was repoed. I believe this is a lie I have not been notified by the bank. She was mad and accusing me of pocketing the income tax money.

I told her through a letter from my lawyer to her lawyer that I will pay the car payments and pay off a credit card with the income tax and what's left over I will split and give her half. She got angrier, I think she is running out of money. She claims she need the w-2 for student aid aka getting a grant to use for something other than school. I believe POSOM was with her when she called that would explain the cursing show she put on. She sent me an email after she hung up angry saying she will requesting my new car in the divorce. She also claims I dont let her speak with DS(not true) DS doesnt wish to speak with her. She was fishing for arguments i stayed cool and responded with this:


WW please do not call me when you want to argue. I will be willing to listen and talk to you but I will not entertain insults and cursing. Save that for someone else. I didn't tell you to have an affair and move in with POSOM you did that. Good luck in your degree I know you can do it your a capable woman that's why I married you. DS and I miss you dearly and if you need anything I will help you anyway I can. However I will not help you break up this family for your affair. You can speak with Seifer anytime you want I am at work now. Don't know why you want my new car. You have one, take care.

Praying for you always,

Your husband TD

Yup the affair is starting to crumble and financial woes are happening in affair land.

I think your reply to your wife was good, and you did a great job not letting your emotions enter your replies. I also thought the following was very strong: " I will be willing to listen and talk to you but I will not entertain insults and cursing."

However, the parts where you moralize should have been left out. Even though what you say is true about her infidelity, all the sentences that use the word "affair" came across as weak in my opinion, and she will not receive it well. I think you could have simply said to her: WW, this is your doing, not mine, and I won't take responsibility for your choices. I would have left it at that. She knows how you feel about it, and, moreover, she knows it is wrong, but she doesn't care. If she ever snaps out of the fog she will care, but that will be later.

After that exchange, i don't think I would have ended it with, "Praying for you." Again, she needs to have a perception of you that you are strong. While you should be praying for her and she should know that, that was not the time to say it because, again, it sounds weak. Women admire strength and fortitude. There is a time to be caring and there is a time for tough love. She presented you with an opportunity to give tough love.

These waywards can be real monsters. But ultimately they are hurting themselves more than anyone else.

I liked the "Praying for you always" It is caring, and it shows strength to be praying for someone who hurts you. I don't see anything "weak" about it at all!

Everyone responds differently, I suppose, so there may be no right answer.

Prisca made me doubt my reply to TD, so with an open mind I asked my wife just now to read TD's post along with Prisca's and my reply to it. I was curious who she would agree with. My wife agreed with me, but that doesn't make Prisca wrong. She felt that the parts of the letter where TD professed his love or care for his WW made him look weak. She also shared with me that she thought that the early letters that I sent her made ME look weak too. I was surprised to hear that, since I spaced them out. But hindsight being 20/20 I agree with her.

What works and doesn't work for my wife may or may not work for others, but I do maintain that men should come across as strong and not desperate to their wayward mates.

Plan A should always be caring. There is a carrot and a stick, and it's important for a husband to learn the finesse of including both. I think he did great.

Let me correct what I wrote: There is a time to be caring, and there is a time when caring should come in the form of tough love. Tough love IS caring, and it certainly worked in my case. Keep in mind that my view of tough love does not include disrespectful judgments and angry outbursts. Those must be restrained.

Can't for the life of me see why that would preclude prayer.

Nothing precludes prayer. One should pray often and hard for their spouse, wayward or not.

My wife honed in on the prayer part of TD's letter. She mentioned to me how she prayed for me consistently 5 times a day after she left. I prayed for her too. It was an essential part of our recovery it turns out.

Having said that, she still felt TD should not have put that in his letter. She felt it made him look weak.

In my opinion, and that of my FWW, the best chance TD has is showing his caring through his actions when he can, and I think he has done really well with this. But women are attracted to men who have self-respect and are strong. In my wife's case, she views the outward signs of affection AT THIS POINT as signs of weakness. I agree. If you are being thrown away like a piece of garbage, showing affection back makes one look weak.

I do not believe Dr. Harley would tell him to avoid being affectionate to his WW because it will make him look "weak." I have yet to hear him say such a thing to a BH.