Ok, so the title is misleading as we all know that affairs aren't reality, they are fantasy and what I really want with my husband, to be in love, is most certainly real.

I haven't been here in a long time, but both my husband and I have been here on and off for the past 7 years (mostly during times of crisis). We should have just stayed here. I didn't know what I what doing when I first started here so my threads are all over the place, you can look at them if you would like for some more background.

Anyway, since my husband's A 7 years ago (and obviously before, or there wouldn't have been an A) our relationship hasn't been great. It hasn't always been bad either, but I would like it to be fantastic. We have been floating back and forth between the State of Withdrawal and the State of Conflict (I mostly find I am by myself in this state, lol) for many years. I have been hanging on all this time, just hoping that something would change. I would try to talk to him or write him letters periodically explaining my feelings and begging for change and things might get a little better temporarily, but eventually fall right back into the same loveless nonsense.

A few months ago, I wrote him a letter saying that if things didn't change by summer, I was moving back to Ohio (we live in Maryland now). I write him letters because I don't feel comfortable talking to him. So, summer break is here and I realize, although he said things would change, they haven't. Then I wake up, and it occurs to me, of course things haven't changed, we haven't done anything to change them. Please note that I am aware that the issues in my relationship do not lie solely on him. I am responsible for more than my fair share of LBing, i.e...AOs and DJs are my most committed crimes. An neither of us are meeting anyone's EN's or making any deposits in the LB$.

I think the most difficult and intruding aspect right now is that we are basically living separate lives. Pretty much as soon as his A ended, he picked up the "hobby" of Jeeping/Offroading. This has been a huge bone of contention between us since the beginning. I have always looked at this hobby as the OW. He has been dishonest with me about things such as buying parts and even entire vehicles behind my back. He still does this to this day and when I snoop on him and try to catch him before doing it, he says he isn't going to, and does it anyway. This hobby takes a ton of time, effort, money and energy away from our relationship and our family. And because of this, I despise this hobby and cannot be the supportive wife he would like me to be. This brings more tension between us as most of the wives of his Jeep friends are very supportive and I always feel like the bad guy. Even when he is not actively participating in these activities, he is constantly involved with forums, groups, Facebook, chats, texts, emails, etc with the other Jeep people (some are female). I feel like it has taken priority over me and my kids for the past several years. And because I hate this "lifestyle", it is not something we can do recreationally together. These are HIS friends and HIS events. He does it all alone. Not that I'm not invited, but I do not want to be involved.

Now, for my part. About a year ago, I got involved in a FB group for online gaming. I have since became a co-owner of this rather large group and have used this as my means of escape. I will admit that I spend a HUGE majority of my time with this site. I only mention this so as not to be the pot calling the kettle black. This group is NOT more important than my marriage/family and I have informed the other owners that I would be spending a lot less time there, so this is not really an issue.

Yesterday, I wrote DH another letter, saying that I don't want to leave and that I want to fix our marriage. I told him that I have been revisiting MB and would like us to actively take steps to work on things. His response was underwhelming. Ughh... He said that he wants things to get better, too and then went on about how he has been trying to help me around the house. That's fantastic and all, but helping around the house is not going to help us fall back in love. I tried to explain this to him, without making him feel I didn't appreciate his help, but I don't think he's getting it. I'm really not feeling to enthusiastic about his reaction or lack there of, to be honest. In fact, I have this sick to my stomach feeling that we are exactly where we have been every other time I have made this plea. What I am perceiving is him basically saying "Yeah, Yeah. I wanna fix it too. Now can we stop talking about it". This is not actually what he said, so this may be a DJ? But it is my perception, and my perception is my reality.

This lack of reaction from him, is probably the biggest things that withdraws love units for me. There have been very few times where he has been outspoken and enthusiastic for our relationship...When we first got together, immediately after his A, and when he feared I was having an A..... Other than that, he is blank. No apparent reaction.

So, I come to you veterans of MB for help and support. I so badly want to fall in love with my husband again. Where do we begin? How do I get him here? Or at least on board with using the principles of MB to get our marriage back? What I do know is that we should work on spending at least 15 hours a week of UA. The time is not really an issue, but the activity during this time is. We have 3 young children and no one to watch them, so any UA time has to be spent at home, between the time the kids go to bed and the time we go to bed. Any ideas? I know that during this time, we should be working to meet each other's needs of Conversation, RC, SF and affection, regardless of what our top EN's are. We also need to fill out the EN questionnaire. And no LBing. What else?

Thank you in advance for your care and consideration and taking the time to help me help my marriage.

I would suggest you get into your local paper, or contact local churches etc - get your children in some youth activities. Often, church youth groups are free, so you will have 1.5-3 hours (depending on activities) that the children will be looked after, for free, and you and your husband can have proper UA time!

HoldHerHand,
Thank you so much for your response! That is a great idea that I wouldn't have thought of. I have not heard of any of the church's around here doing anything like that without a fee. I can't say for sure. However, we are not religious and I really do not want to open that can of worms of explaining all of that to my children right now. Also, I would not even be comfortable with that situation. When I was younger, I was in a youth group with 4 of my cousins and 3 of them were molested by the pastor during this time. I know that situation would be highly unlikely, but the thought of it gives me the creeps. And finally, and this is the difficult one, My children have never been looked after by anyone but my mother (who is now 6 hours away) in their entire lives. One of our children is special needs. I cannot just suddenly leave them with strangers.

All of that is neither here nor there at this point. And OH, I was positive that this thread would be drama free for the most part. I should have done my homework before I got all Gung Ho about all of this. My instincts were DEAD ON! I am no longer at a point where I want to fix my marriage. In fact, I can't even think of a situation where this will work at this point. I have found some information that is a game changer. It is not an A (as far as I know) so this doesn't need moved to SAA. But my husband's IB has now cost him his marriage. And he doesn't even know it yet. And I'm not going to tell him either. All I can say is that has been dishonest and betrayed me and disrespected our marriage, once again. I am glad I discovered this now instead of later.

Ok, So I told him that I'm sorry and that I no longer want to work on the marriage. I told him not to ask me why because he is already aware of the things he's been doing that doesn't honor our marriage. And if he doesn't, he needed to start taking inventory of that. I was *hoping* the good man I know he is capable of being, would be open and honest and admit what he did. But I knew better. I now think he's afraid to admit the wrong thing, so instead, he's denying everything. Insisting he nothing wrong and called me crazy. Said he didn't care and told me to do what I want. Oh well. What was I expecting?

Have you read Dr. Harley's book, " Buyers, Renters, and Freeloaders"? It could help you to do so if you have not.

mrEureka,
I have not read that one. I will have to look into it. Thank you! You are welcome to enlighten me about it and how it pertains to my relationship, if you would like.

Thanks for responding!

Well, I saw your title and I thought "You've come to the right place."


This is going to be your biggest issue, and UA time is the second biggest.

Dr. Harley suggests writing your husband a letter letting him know you want to build an integrated life and romantic love together. His reaction is key: will he respond by saying "Yes, let's do that," or will he respond by saying this is unrealistic, or nobody lives like this, or love is impossible after 2 years, or some other such excuse.

This is the first thing we need to know and you need to find out.


You've correctly identified UA time as the second issue. What you need to know is that very few couples can make "UA time at home" work. It would be best to start from the beginning spending all or most of your time out of the house.

So do not say you have noone to watch your kids and try to proceed like that: the fact that you have noone to watch your kids is a problem you will have to solve, once you have the support of your husband. You guys will need to really get behind finding a way to make this work.

But of course there's no sense worrying about that until your husband is committed to the plan.

Why are you being so coy about what the wrong thing is? What did he do? Friendships with other women? Reckless spending? Going to bars or places you don't want him going? Porn use?

Are you trying to make him change, or trying to protect yourself from being hurt by him? I strongly suggest you use Dr. Harley's Plan B to protect yourself. It is entirely appropriate when a woman has been neglected or a husband refuses to give up independent behavior or other love busters, or when a formerly wayward husband has never engaged with recovery, like your husband.

Here is Dr. Harley's article about it:
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8111_quit.html
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8111_quit2.html

I heard this Marriage Builders Radio show on my way in for work this morning. At first I thought it would be pretty helpful for you, till I read your other post. You may still find it beneficial:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/play_segment.cfm?sid=03288
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/play_segment.cfm?sid=03289
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/play_segment.cfm?sid=03290

Wow markos! Thank you! That radio broadcast was pretty spot on!


He is not saying no, but is also not enthusiastic about it either. His response was something like, as soon as we can get the house in order and do this or that to relieve some stress, it will be easier on us. I'm not sure he was exactly picking up what i was putting down.


Well, then that in itself would put the whole process on hold for a prolonged period of time as I will not leave my children with someone they or I do not know or trust. Putting it off any longer would certainly not be beneficial at all.


Sure, all of that. But yes, one of those mentioned is the deal breaker. I don't want to post what he did right now as I suspect he is now watching this thread, trying to get the answer. He doesn't want to fess up to anything in case that isn't the thing I actually know. He knows what he did and he knows it was wrong, because he tried to cover it up.

See, if I had uncovered this a few weeks ago, I doubt I would have the same reaction, I probably would've have just kept it to myself and made a plan to leave him anyway. My intuition rang an alarm for me that caused me to change my view and want to help my marriage instead of just walking away. I didn't realize that was the cause until now. I came here. I read a lot. I revisited the MB principles, some of our (H and I) past posts, read some other info and a few other posts to make sure this is what I wanted to do and to get a plan of action going. Then I let him know how I was feeling.

Now, this situation comes to light for me and I get it, kind of. For the place our relationship is in, it's understandable, but not excusable. And at that point I had not presented him with wanting to help our marriage. But I have started to emotionally invest again and that is what is causing the hurt I may not have felt before. And NOW I have expressed to him that I wanted to save our marriage and I feel like if he really wanted this, this is a fantastic opportunity to be open & honest with me. It doesn't make it go away, but it would sure soften the blow a little. Sure there is a HUGE withdrawal from the LB$, but Honesty would've sure went a long way in depositing a little back. An explanation, a little more. An Apology, even more. But this seemingly small thing has much bigger consequences surrounding it. It affects so much and I see no good way to go about resolving it.



I can't make him change. That would be all on him if he chose to do so. That is not my cross to bear. I am trying to protect myself.


Yes, and now I must make a plan to do so. This is definitely not going to be easy logistically speaking. And I am certain that it will end in divorce as I must go back to Ohio.

Thank you for responding.

In that book, Dr. Harley explains commitment within relationships by analogy to housing arrangements. Fully committed partners are buyers. The book helps you to understand if you are not both buyers, why that might be the case and how to advance to being a buyer.

Oh, that makes sense. I will definitely look into getting that book,. Thank you for recommending it.

I am confused as to why anything needs to be put on hold. The problem of not having anyone to watch the kids is a problem that you guys should be working to solve, now. Don't put that problem on hold.

Dr. Harley would definitely encourage you to prepare for a separation. Did you get to read the 2 part article I posted links to?

I suggest you stop playing games.

Either:
1. Go to Plan B, in which case it doesn't matter if he has the answer or not

or

2. Start the MB program and recover your marriage, in which case he will need to know.

But this coyness is a little ridiculous

Astrophysicist Neil deGrasse Tyson has a nice little video on youtube under the Big Think titled "You want scientifically literate chidren? Get out of the way!"

Others would call be an atheist. I prefer rationalist.

But, I send my kids to church youth activities. One cannot question that which one never explores.

Oh, and the kids have a blast.


Being summer time it might be harder, our kids went to group on Wednesday and/or Thursday nights. DD13 is going to summer camp... which did cost $70. DD6 will have to wait a bit.


Anyway, point being that your children aren't as likely to become "indoctrinated" to anything, as opposed to exposed and possibly educated about a particular point of view. Most of the meetings are free - it's some activities which may require a fee.

Secondly - I'd rather have my kids hanging with the church kids than the gangbangers and stoners.

First, we would have to find someone. Someone very experienced. Someone who passes a background check, has many references, etc..That part isn't really a big deal. This person also has to have experience and qualifications to deal with my special needs child. Then, we would need this person to come around for my children and I (and H)to get to know and trust them while we were around before I will leave them alone with my children. This would also assume we can afford a babysitter, which by research, would cost about $600/ week just for the 20 hours of UA? We don't have any money let alone $600/week.

Yes, I did read them both last night and again when you posted them


Yes, that seems about right.

I agree. Plan B it is. I am brainstorming how to put that in place.

Thank you!

I would have to look into this further as I am not positive. All I am aware of is summer camp. That's not going to be helpful. It is during the day while H is at work. The costs range from $70-$150/week per child and I don't think the younger children can attend anyway, like you said. But summer camp wouldn't help us to get any UA time. I cannot just dump my kids off with a bunch of strangers.. None of us are ok with that.


My children are more than welcome to make their own decisions once they are old enough to make that decision for themselves. I don't even want to have to explain things, like Church, God, Jesus, Heaven, etc... to them right now.


I agree completely, but that is most definitely not a concern at the moment.