Ok,

My name is Jim. About 7+ years ago, I had an affair on my girlfriend Julie. We went through a lengthy recovery and a year and a half later, we got married and have been married for 6 years now. We used this site to help us through our recovery, so I am now returning in this crisis.

We have 3 children. All girls, aged 4, 5 and 8. The 5 year old is autistic. We have a VERY tight family...very to ourselves and close knit.

I however, after my affair, found a hobby that occupied my time creatively and helped me to find an outlet for my social needs. I became a Jeep fanatic. And I mean...fanatic. Over the course of seven years I have built up quite a following in the Jeep community with large groups on Facebook, large event, sponsors, many friends and acquaintances. And I truly enjoy the social interaction. Honestly, it is good for the ego, and I like building something with my hands and then showing off what I created.

Sometimes, however, this has been a bone of contention with the wife and I, as she would say I spent to much time on it, so I pulled back a little, and do try to balance this passion with my other passion, my wife and kids.

So that is the back story.

Move forward to time since Saturday May 25th.

On May 25th, I threw a Jeep event with myself and 4 good friends that formed a club. It was a Huge event, 85+ Jeeps and 250+ people.

The event ended at 8PM and then we threw an after party. During the after party, about 50 people were still there, and about 20 of us hanging out in the shop, BS'ing. All matter of subjects, having a few beers and just having fun, nothing untoward...good, clean, wholesome, American fun.

During the time that we were all BS'ing, A girl named Shilo (Roomate of one of the Jeep girls, Dana) spoke up about a situation she was in. She was with a boyfriend who she did not like, and was in love with a man in California....thought she should go to him, but she was starting a great job with a Nonprofit next week and was leery of giving up that opportunity.

Mind you, this is not a one on one conversation, The questions were posed to a group of about 15. We all offered our myriad advice...as we tend to do....some thinking career first, others thinking not to waste time with bad relationships, go to the one you love...lol...really no help at all.

Now, the thing is, I am Facebook friends with EVERYONE who was their....they are "JEEP FRIENDS". But Shilo I was not, since she is the roommate of one of the Jeep friends. As she was leaving...she said look me up on Facebook. I said...Ok, I will. I want to preface this by the fact that she said this to everyone, I was not singled out, there was no special intimacy with me than anyone else there at the party...she liked the crowd and wanted to stay in touch.

Now I have 2 Facebook accounts...one for family and true friends, and one for the Jeep thing. The Jeep thing account has over 1200 friends, so I thought, no biggie, I'll friend her...what's 1201...and honestly I was curious what decision she would make. A couple days later I sent the friend request and and she accepted.

We did not chat immediately, but a few days later she posted up about her new job so I knew what decision she had made and we had the following conversation:

Him: how's the new gig?

Her: A little boring but I will make it work haha

Him: ah well...doing accounting work right?
I think boring is in the cards

Her: Yeah.. right now I'm going through the last 12 months check stubs to make sure none are missing.. the person before me was horrible at filing so my work is cut out for me

Him: well...at least you're busy....
yesterday at work
I did ABSOLUTELY nothing

Her: Well I'm sure there will be slow days.. and hey.. only 2 more days til the weekend lol

Him: true that
well ....have to get ready...
I promised I would find you here! smile
stay in touch

Her: Will do!

We have had no further conversation....NONE.

I want everyone to understand. In my mind, this was such an innocuous thing that it was not even in my mind that this would cause a rift in my relationship. The only reason it is being discussed here is my wife's reaction.

Let me preface part II....I understand, somewhat, where she is coming from, but I thought after 7 years I had regained her trust that I would NEVER step out on her again. And I mean that. When I say that there is NO WOMAN ON EARTH who is worth it to me to go through what I went through 7 years ago again, I mean it. I even picked a hobby that is generally all guys. I avoid even putting myself in situations that my wife would even remotely find suspicious, and I think generally she would agree. I don't make work friends anymore (how the first time started) and I only hang out with guys (except for when their wives are around).

I feel that in this case, I guess I was wrong. I misjudged everything. She does not still trust me. And let me explain how this went down and her side of it as well.

A few days ago, my wife wrote me a letter talking about how much she wanted to work on our relationship. I was actually excited, because she has a history of writing very negative letters to me.

We had a good day and a half. Kissing, testing each other, making an effort. 2 Nights ago everything changed.

She decided to do her snooping. And I am actually fine with that. Through recovery I made sure to live my life as an open book. She has all my passwords to every account, and I have nothing to hide. If I ever do anything wrong, it usually has to do with buying Jeep parts.

Through her snooping, she discovered this chat session (see above). The bad part is, the conversation appears to have been deleted. It was still in the archi9ves and visible. Now I have had this happen many times on Facebook, but the next time I talk to the person, it comes right back up...a glitch or something, dunno....but yes...that now looks bad, doesn't it.

However innocuous the conversation was, however unimportant the relationship was, the act of deleting it looks like I am hiding something and then makes the whole thing APPEAR much worse.

The problem is, I didn't delete it. It's still on my phone, it's still in the chat window, but gone from my inbox. So here I am, being confronted with something that is (TO ME) so out of left field, after a couple days of really trying to rekindle something, it is a bit shocking.

She was playing coy at first too, not telling me what I did wrong, but I figured it out while I was at work, looking through EVERYTHING to see what the heck I did....and I saw it was missing. I came home yesterday and I looked it up, sure enough, conversation there, but not in my inbox on the home PC. CRAP!

Here is the problem. She now thinks she can not trust me with the Jeep thing. She now thinks she can't trust me again period.

Problem is, I did not INTEND to do anything wrong. IF I did, I am very sorry for that. But there was no INTENTION. There was never even the hint of an affair with anyone, no inappropriate comments....the entirety of the conversation is above. I had no intention of talking to this person regularly...just blending them in with the other 1200 friends on Facebook. Problem is, with it missing from the inbox, it leaves the question open to her...how do I knpow you didn't talk to her more.

I am defending her reaction somewhat. BUT....I had hoped over these many years I had earned enough trust to be ...well...trusted.

The relationship was like a dad giving a daughter advice. And her story was intriguing enough to follow up on, even though I knew I was not going to form a real friendship....I know the perils of that direction.

Oh, one other issue, she is kindof a punky chick with Tattoos that my wife knows I have an attraction for...further complicates the issue although was NOT the case here.


I need help to fix this. After everything, my wife is telling me that this has cost me my marriage. I feel I did nothing wrong and have apologized for the unintended perception, but i feel she is projecting a lot more on this situation. I feel like she is looking for an excuse to leave....I can't own her feelings, only mine, but I know, in the core of my being, that the guy who would NEVER cheat on her again, still stands here, still faithful, with no emotional or other attachments to any other woman on this planet except my daughters.

I do not want her to leave. She is my best friend.

Any help.

I have been completely honest in this post...I don't know what else to say.

I still love my wife, and always will. Help me help her stay?

Thanks so much!

Delete your Facebook accounts.
Commit to no more female friends.
That's a start.

It's as simple as that. You don't need to debate whether you were right or wrong.

In fact, lecturing your wife as to what your intent was, or how faithful you really are, or why she shouldn't feel upset, is disrespectful.

Dr. Harley's position is that all of us can be trusted in some circumstances, and that in other circumstances none of us can be trusted! You apparently live in completely untrustworthy circumstances.

The Marriage Builders idea is to stay totally out of such circumstances. So, end your female friendships, and invite your wife to check up on that constantly to verify that they stay ended. End your individual recreational activities and find something fun to do with your wife for at least fifteen hours a week.

And stop lecturing your wife as to why she shouldn't be hurt!

Can you do these things?

That is not a problem - that is an improvement! She is now more educated about what she needs in order to be secure.

The only question is, are you going to give it to her?

You have a lot of work to do in order to learn how to build a good marriage with your wife.

Dig in:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi1000_video.html

If I were you, I would tell your wife that you will immediately end your female friendships and never have any again, that you will block facebook for life and gladly permit her to monitor all of your computers, phones, and communications, that you will stop lecturing her about why everything is okay and you would like to hear from her if she ever again feels you are disrespectful to her, and that you will stop having recreational activities that don't include her and will instead find new interests TOGETHER.

And then I would get professional help from Dr. Harley and his staff to build this new lifestyle:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi9000_courses.html

How many years have you been at this and you still haven't made it work and don't know the first thing Dr. Harley says about trust? It's time, jimbo!

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/mb.cfm/9/58

Jim,

The relationship was like a dad giving a daughter advice.

That is such a cliche pick up strategy for older guys looking for younger girls, I think men fool themselves into thinking it is true.

But anyway, I think your W never recovered from your first affair completely, does the OW live near by.

God Bless
Gamma

I want you to understand what a waste of your time it is to try to get us to "understand." Do you want your marriage, or not? Getting us to understand why you did it or how far it did or didn't go or whatever is a waste of our time and yours. It will not contribute to getting your wife back or having a good marriage. The important thing is that you now know these activities hurt her and are unacceptable, and you will stop them, right?

The Policy of Joint Agreement

This is so amazingly simple:
"Never do anything without an enthusiastic agreement between you and your spouse"

Your wife's not enthusiastic about it, you don't do it, end of story. So amazingly easy. There is nothing in there about having long painful discussions about what really happened, etc. It's just that she doesn't like it, so you knock it off.

Can you do that and not give her lectures and us long posts about what really happened? It's actually pretty easy, and it's the way to rebuild your marriage. If you need to sit around justifying yourself, you should do it in an empty room so you don't hurt her any more, and then when you should come out, you should simply stop doing the things she is unenthusiastic about, without another word.

Easy!

What you have described is terribly offensive, plain and simple.

Delete facebook. Simple solution.

These are Dr. Harley's Basic Concepts:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3000_intro.html

If you would like your marriage to survive, you need to learn these and put them into action. We help with that. We don't waste time listening to irrelevant discussions about why you thought something was okay. It wasn't okay with her, simple as that! We would be exactly the same way with her if the situation were the other way around, friend, because we want you to have a good marriage, and Dr. Harley knows how to do that with these concepts.

Read the concepts and watch the videos. You have been here too long to not know this stuff!!!

Delete Facebook.

Jim

BTW, Dana like the axles? Shilo like Hi Low on the transfer case?

God Bless
Gamma

That is what is scary about this whole thing. How do you think affairs start? They start just like this when you make friends with the opposite sex. This person is also is involved with your Jeep crowd so it is especially dangerous because she is involved with your FAVORITE RECREATION. And it should be noted that your FAVORITE RECREATION is not your wife.

You are destroying your marriage by cultivating a hobby outside of your marriage, cultivating opposite sex friendships outside of your marriage while your marriage dies on the vine.


There is nothing "creative" or healthy about a hobby that excludes your marriage. There is nothing healthy about a "social life" that EXCLUDES your wife. All of these efforts might be healthy for a SINGLE person, but they are detructive in a marriage. You have a very dysfunctional marriage and you won't have it for long if you don't knock it off.

I am sorry you and your wife never used the Marriage Builders program and actually recovered your marriage the last time. My suggestion would be to start actually using the program before your marriage dies completely. It is in the death throes now.

Apparently, he has been here for years without learning this!

How do you hang around Marriage Builders for years without learning this very first lesson?

How do Affairs Begin?

Anatomy of Adultery

chapter 13 of His Needs, Her Needs

It seems as if some of the advice given is done in a very harsh and condescending manner. I am looking for advice, but not to be made small.

I have no problem deleting the facebook account. I am a big boy, and understand the difference between real friends and facebook freinds, and could give or take the facebook friends.

So as far as the "OW"...problem solved.

Listen guys, you say I am justifying...i am not. I said she had a point. And ending the behavior...done.

All I am saying, is this was no more the "OW" than any other "W" that attended this occasion. There really was nothing more between her and I than any other casual conversation I had. It was the facebook thing that got it all misunderstood.

If the conversation was offensive, then perhaps I have to reflect on that. I did not feel I was flirting, but that is for me to look deeper at I suppose.

Here is what I don't get:

I have been building cars since I was 4 years old. I have always worked on cars. It is a joy of mine. I told my wife when I met her I wanted to restore a 64 Pontiac GTO....well I never became wealthy enough so I chose the Jeep Cherokee....cheap and fun. BUT...she new I was into cars.

My understanding from you is this: If my wife does not like working on cars, I should give up working on cars? If my wife does not want me to have friends, I should not have friends?

The Policy of Joint Agreement...when does it become irrational? I ask these questions not to be facetious, but I really want to know. When does it become that I have to give up everything I enjoy and only do everything she enjoys in order to have a relationship.

I only do the "Jeep Thing" one evening a week. I offer all the rest of my time to her and my kids. I am a good man. I work, I do not go to bars, do drugs, chase women. I am committed to my family. But I feel a little attacked here for asking for help, and I feel that that is an unhealthy way to feel.

I really am trying to understand.

I was not having my emotional needs met outside of my marriage. For christ's sake I met her once, in a group and had a five line conversation.

She never met ANY of my emotional needs, nor did I look to her to do so. I am also not drawn to her anymore than the other 1200 people I have made the acquaintance of through the Jeep thing. I have read the articles...I know the signs, and I know how affairs start. This is why I avoid any situation I can be in to allow that to happen.

If I were to help a lady in the grocery store parking lot and she liked my Jeep and I told her about this group I had on FB and had a 5 minute conversation with her about it then invited her to the FB group....would that be an affair too? Cause it happens. I market all my sponsors for the Jeep events through FB. It is like a job...my contribution to the club is event marketing and sponsorship acquisition.

So what am I missing?

Great, have you done it, yet? And is it okay with you if your wife monitors you so that she can feel secure?


I have a saying: if you are defending yourself, you're being defensive.


You should do it without reams of text, then.


See, that's the problem. You don't just do what needs to be done, you keep talking about it, jumping into territory that your wife feels is very disrespectful. It's best just to stop doing what offends her without trying to explain why you thought it was okay, etc. You can call that "jusifying" or not, but the point is, if you want a happy marriage, stop doing it!


It's disrespectful when you say your wife misunderstood. She sees it differently from you. That's not disrespectful. What you did is incredibly hurtful and offensive, no matter how you understand it. So just stop it and move on and quit talking about it. Don't try to straighten out your wife's "misunderstandings."



Yep, find something else that you both enjoy.


If you want a happy marriage, don't have friends that are offensive to your spouse. It's that simple. Find other friends. We quit seeing my parents for a couple of years because they were so disrespectful and offensive to my wife. And we became much happier!!


The POJA is a guideline to help you be a thoughtful person. When do you ever want to stop being thoughtful and start being selfish and obnoxious to live with? Because the minute you quit following it, you cease to be marriage material - you become someone who is a source of great pain to your spouse, a person who wants to gain your own happiness at the expense of your wife.


Find something you both enjoy.


What difference does it make? You started an opposite sex friendship there! You have to eliminate the conditions that lead to affairs, or you are not safe to live with.


Just stop the offensive behavior and start learning the material here so you guys can build a happy marriage. Don't you think you deserve it after all these years?

I guess you don't know what intimate converstion looks like then!

Did you read the links I posted? Are you going to get educated about Marriage Builders and how to use it, or is this just a waste of everyone's time?

Why on EARTH would you be doing that?

How much income does this job bring in?