Well the ex-fiance/baby mother called me back and stated she doesn't want to get into the middle of it and wishes me best of luck. I told her if she wanted the information she could always contact me. I'm really tempted to just email/mail it to her anyways. Is this a good idea? I'm so torn on this issue.

TD,
Your e-mail exchange with your WW brings back a lot of bad memories. Been there, done that. I feel really bad for you. I know that that e-mail exchange will stay with you for awhile. It was very hurtful and mean spirited. You don't deserve it. I admire your conviction and your goodness.

Try not to argue with her in the future because it only drives the wedge deeper if the arguments get long. Keep your replies to her attacks succinct, but do wield the stick of plan a. For example, when she accused you of alienating her from DS, your reply needed to be a succinct, "Your actions have alienated him from you." And leave it at that. Don't go into long expositions about infidelity.

You wrote some beautiful things in your response, but you educated her too much. Waywards won't be educated. It actually works against you to educate. It's a big LB. Only after the fog lifts can they be educated, and the fog is pea soup around this one.

I think its time to start thinking of Plan B. I'm not suggesting getting into it now, but preparing for the day it will come. And that day is not too far off I think.

So while you are still in Plan A, I would:

1. Make a pledge not to argue or educate your WW.
2. Continue to do the things you've been doing that make your son and you happy and healthy.
3. Let her see you as happy, handsome, loving, secure, and confident. These things can only be conveyed through countenance and actions, not so much words.
Don't show her a hint of desperation. (It wasn't until I was divorced, thought it was 100% over, and started dating that my FWW came back.)
4. Seize opportunities to do kind things for her.

Finally, I would leave the former fiance alone. Respect her wishes and let her heal. She doesn't want the triggers and wants to get over this, it seems to me.

Just I agree with everything you said but the last part. I will send the fianc� the information via email and mail. She can do with it what she wants. Here's why, my WW called to speak with DS. She called 3 times and I missed them because I was in the gym and left my phone in the car. I immediately called her back, she asked for DS I explained to her DS wasn't with me and I just got out of the gym and was going to get ice cream for my best friend's wife's birthday. She became irate accusing me of keeping him from her.

I followed your advice Just and told her that her actions caused him to not want to speak with her. I then asked her how she was doing which made her angrier and she stated why not ask POSOM fianc� and she hung up. 10 minutes later she called back her reason being she wanted me to tell my best friend's wife happy birthday. I said sure and asked why she inquired about POSOM fianc�. She told me that the fianc� called her right after I talked to her. I don't believe this one bit. Then I asked how she was.

She told me she's fine and then she wanted to be "honest" with me. I said sure, she proceeded to talk about how she was never in love with me and she married me because she got pregnant (the pregnancy was something we agreed to do together). How she knew I loved her and she saw I was a nice guy, with a good job and was stable. How she just got out of a abusive relationship. I messed up and tried to educate her AGAIN!

I told her I will fight for our family and that she compared my bad traits to POSOM good traits. Asked her if being in love with her husband and father of her children would be a logical move and she agreed. I explained that she is addicted to this POSOM and she needs to detox by way of NC and the feelings she had of me will resurface. I brought up fond memories of our relationship, like the first time she told me she loved me, DS birth, etc. She then said she never cheated on me. I told her why move away from our son amd keep SS in PR? She opened up to me and said she moved to FL and things weren't working out the way she thought they were. I told her I'm sorry to hear that. Then she wanted to get off the phone and I thanked her for being honest with me.

She then sent me an email ten minutes ago asking if DS was awake. I asked DS if he wanted to talk to WW and he said no. He will talk to her tomorrow. I sent that reply and left it at that. I have a habit of educating her and I NEED to break it because it is a DJ. I think I handled it well. Oh I told her I didn't love her and that I care for her alot. However, love can be regained with time spent together and O&H.

So here my take on things POSOM isn't with either woman he's floating between the both of them. Fianc� told POSOM about my call and he got angry with WW to create space so he can do damage control with fianc�. Cause he now has my WW waiting on him hand and foot. That's what lifted the fog a bit because WW needs to (in his eyes) get me under control and stop talking to his "main girl". That gave her time to reflect how she messed up her life for nothing. That's why she opened up to me. That's why I plan on sending the evidence despite her claims, POSOM is gaslighting both women and cake eating his [censored] off. Also, she has the right to know she can do what she will with the information.

As you're still in Plan A...try to stop saying things like this. It will sound preachy to her, like you're trying to educate her.

Otherwise, you are doing great!

I also think you should send fiance/OMGF the information.

When WW starts rewriting history, don't listen to her.

TD other than the DJs/trying to educate her. You did really well.

Well, something's came to my mind that came up in the conversation. WW made it a point to keep saying she was single and that MIL told her she should work on the marriage with me because I am a nice guy and stable. That she will eventually fall back in love with me if she got rid of her distractions. I also told her that she is welcome back into the marriage and she UPSET! She said that things between us would be going good and then I would do something to mess it up. I asked for an example and she brought that up. Again, fogbabble IMO she was upset because I contacted the fianc� and that I avoid her argument baiting.

Edit: thought about the conversation today while I ran and had my best 5k time! 25 mins!

TD,
I did not realize the the POSOM's fiance was still in a relationship with him. I was under that impression she was completely out of the picture and had moved on. Since that's not the case carry on with feeding her information. Good that you did.

Understood Just, I think he's not committed to either woman he's just yo-yoing betweend the two of them. He's being gallant helping my WW while he helps himself to SF and gaslights the fianc� with the true relationship. Basically, he wants two women and no commitments, he's a playa looking for a cash cow to support him. My WW is working on her degree and he figured he can butter her up and at the same time hold on to the fianc� in case WW doesn't meet his expectations. WW knows this and it explains all the money spending and credit card debt she has now. Also, why she moved down there. On the other hand the fianc� or baby mama is oblivious if their affair. In other words they broke and now trying to recover but its a FR cause he is still "dating" my WW.

Did you ever get a response from OMGF/fiance about the information you sent her?

She hasn't received it yet.

Oh ok.

Boy the fireworks will be interesting to watch.

TD, have read quite abit of your story. Quite a few here have advised you to go to Plan B now, and I agree. Seems like the last several months the only reason she communicates with you is missing her son. She is simply using her privilege as a mother to bypass you for the purpose of the mother/son relationship. Basically TD, you are nothing more right now than a conduit to her son - nothing more, nothing less. To me this is abuse, so not understanding why you don't cut and get to B.

What I would be asking myself now is where do I want to be five years out - a fulfilling marriage or hoping. Your comment about her maybe having a FR with her lover is telling! Unfortunately, I think from what I read from your posts that they do love each other. Doubt she would have moved to be with him if she didn't. It tells that you're sitting back and tolerating this and no plan for YOUR future. Got news for ya - most men ( or most women for the matter) would not tolerate this.

I will say some prayers for you because you seem to be a very honest guy, and I promise to do that becaue sometimes prayer promise go unattended.

Tom

Tom,

TD was talking about a FR between the OM and the OM's GF/fiance because the OM is still cake eating between his GF/fiance (baby mama) and TD's WW, not between WW and OM.

Also, Dr. Harley said Plan A. I appreciate your response and your perspective. I think she is doing what you said to justify contact with me to POSOM. When she is alone she talks to me about tv shows and other stuff. However, when she is around POSOM she is angry and starts arguments. It sounds so fake and as her husband I do know her and her mannerisms even though she has a warped reality.

Package hasn't been received yet but I sent the emails today. WW called wanting to speak with DS and he didn't want to talk to her she heard him say it this time. POSOM bought her flowers after their fight (assumed) when I contacted his fianc�/baby mother. Talk to SS everyday and we watch a show together while I have him on the phone like we used to. MIL is seeing the light! I miss SS so much!

TD,
Do you say things to your son to discourage him from talking to his mom?

No I told him mommy has a boyfriend and husbands shouldn't have girlfriends and vice versa. He asked me where is mom was and I told him she is with POSOM in FL. That she tried to take SS and DS from me so she can be with POSOM. Also, that POSOM went to jail for touching girls private parts. Basically the truth of the whole situation. I do not lie to my sons, I let them know what's going on in kid language.

It's good that you do it, too. So many BHs or BWs don't want to tell the kids.

Our anniversary is coming up soon and I was thinking of sending her a bound book of poetry I have written, with a card and maybe some flowers. Any thoughts on this? I spoke with her again and she stated that she wants me to stop fighting for our marriage and reiterated things in her new place weren't going as she planned. She also said she never loved me and she isn't talking to me about this because I am "her shoulder to cry on" she wants me to understand how she feels. Fogbabble I'm sure, I just listened while she tried to bait me into an argument.

On the exposure front, emails were sent to the fiance/baby mother and I mailed off some photos. I mailed them to her work address and had return receipt and all that on it as well. I got the receipt showing she received it but I haven't heard anything from her at all. Honestly, was expecting her to call me and be an ally. Guess it takes time (sigh).

DS and I had an AWESOME time at his birthday party. WW called and he talked to her for about a minute before he had to go because he was busy playing. She sounded hurt when he said that and I wanted to comfort her but that wouldn't be a good thing in Plan A. Guess that stick hurts like hell! Court coming up soon and I will update you all on the outcome. Hopefully, its for me to have full and legal custody.

Also, I think WW filed her taxes as single despite the agreement between us regarding the income tax. She posted on her social media account about going shopping with POSOM and buying him clothes. That hurt bad but didn't destroy my resolve. Oh, on our son's birthday there wasn't anything on her social media about it. I emailed her some photos and videos from his birthday party. I thanked her for making me a father this day and wish she was here with us celebrating that fact.

Are you saving screen shots of her social media when she talks about OM?