No he didn't!

I am so pleased you found a good guy and are happy. It made me smile to see what he wrote you!

Markos, I agree. But he is not willing to listen. I am like Moses talking to Pharoah.

Why are you talking to him?

I don't get why you say "he is not willing to listen." Of course he is not willing to listen! We all know that! That's what we're telling YOU, Atlanta.

I wasn't suggesting you go try to persuade him.

I am not talking to him. These are things he said at last discussion where he agreed to terms and I met with him last week. We had a long discussion, most of which was comprised of him explaining to me that he doesn't see why he should listen to me tell him AGAIN about his effects on me, where his focus was about how he has to leave if I say anything. He insisted he was not in contact with his former co-worker and was not going to be. As far as his ex wife, I already know he just bumbles along there believing THAT stuff is none of my business and I shouldn't worry about it. Well, I do.

Obviously when he puts all of these things out there at me then he is not really agreeing to what I am asking. I went back to plan B and have not had contact with him since.

Most of the questions I am asking are coming out of that discussion with him and prior events from the last year.

He left that discussion telling me HE needs my consideration not to stress him because he is having a terrible time elsewhere, his nerves are destroyed, and HE is not going to talk about the past, answer questions or discuss the stuff about the co-worker because HE feels used by her and says she made him feel like a POS and if I have emotional upset I am to talk to someone else because HE can't handle my angst right now.

I just looked at him and said that I believe since he is the person who caused the upset, not someone else, it was his responsibility to properly address. And I could feel myself getting upset, so I excused myself and left.

I am not talking to him. I want to talk to him and tell him how upset and hurt and angry I feel. But I guess I am doing it wrong, and he doesn't actually care. He finds me tedious to deal with.

You could write a letter with everything you want to tell him and then burn it. If it helps you to write everything down.



Now you need to concentrate on you. What self-care do you have planned for you?

Atlanta,
I read your stich often and find your WH conduct very disturbing. He comes accross as a master manipulator yet even though you know this you fall for his manipulation tactics.

I learned the hard way I can't be my FWH councellor and wife at the same time especially when he had betrayed me. I handed the reins over to the Harley's and their coaching,

Have you considered letting one of the MB coaches deal with your WH?
My WH was acting like he was the victim and his life was hard after his A and I was expected to shut my feelings away and help him. That got me nowhere. I spent months being angry frustrated and a complete depressed mess.

After the first coaching session with Steve my WH got it. I was dumbstruck, Steve told my WH exactly the same things I has been saying for months but was being ignored but when Steve told my WH he got it.

I would make coaching with the Harley's a deal braker, if your WH agrees to it then see where it goes if not then I don't think there is any hope of recovering anything.

I appreciate all the patience being extended to me here. You guys really know how to hold a hand!

I joined a fitness center and now have a personal trainer for exercise and diet. I am optimistic about it improving my outlook.

Yes, NB, I have been trying to be counselor, at my expense. I realize I keep trying to suppress myself to please him so he feels better. It is a recipe for resentment

I am going to stick tight with Plan B and when I speak to him again, I will present the idea of a 3rd party. Maybe he and I are just too close to it to help each other right now.

I am glad you are going to go to Plan B, but if you want to receive the full protection benefits, I would suggest you don't speak to him again. Otherwise you'll lose most of the good that Plan B offers you.

Good! Keep it that way. I can't remember, are you divorced or even legally separated?






You're not saying it wrong. He's not listening and has no empathy. If you don't break away from him, you will spend the rest of your life trying to find the set of words and tone that will magically turn him empathetic and understanding. WON'T HAPPEN. If you could accept that he will NEVER see your side, and it doesn't really matter, you could set yourself free.

Again, you are spending too much time and effort in trying to get that one small validation from a man who has absolutely no respect for you and never will. That hurts, I know, but at least it's a finite hurt. Letting him in with a "I'm not having an affair now so you shouldn't be hurting now" will give you infinite hurt. On and on, over and over.

Stay in what they call a dark Plan B and make it a lifetime commitment.

The patient folks on this board held my hand for years. I see your thread now, and I can only imagine the frustration they must have felt. And probably still do, hehe.


This is great. Do you have any girlfriends you can do things with? Hobbies, lunches, shopping? Healthy distraction, around good people, will do wonders to take your mind off the elephant.


I remember that feeling all too well.

Speaking of counselors, of the 4 different types of counselors I saw during those 4 years of false recovery, 3 of them told me to divorce him (one was a marriage counselor) and the 4th one couldn't get exWH to commit to EP against other women for longer than a few months. Exwh gave up on counseling after that.

The desire to make the marriage work for both of us wasn't there. He wanted things his way.


With your H's attitude, I would make it a condition of recovery to counsel with Steve Harley for a few sessions before you have any kind of "discussions." You could do the same.

Personally, I hate even recommending anything to do with reconciliation in your situation, because I feel like I'm throwing false hope out there. If I were a betting woman, I'd be rich off betting against your husband. He is not going to be any different. Come to think of it, my exwh did talk to Steve and Jennifer for about 4 sessions and then quit. It all still turned out like it did. It just got progressively worse.

For your sake Atlanta, I would love to see your husband do a 180, but you can't recover on hope.

I don't know what he will do. He was a pretty amazing guy before all of this started up. You must realize for me to still be here, at one time he seemed pretty special.

Pretty sad

Yes, the fact that you cannot let him go despite all that he has done suggests that his account in your Love Bank still has credits in it from a huge lump sum that he deposited long ago.

I suspect that that is how he operates - all loving attention, devotion, hope for the future, TOTAL PASSION in the beginning and then when he's got the woman hooked, he lets the mask slip and the REAL him comes out.

My father, who married 5 times (as far as I know he could be on wife #7 now), was exactly like that and I saw him treat woman after woman like that. They all fell for him HARD, they thought he was such a catch, he made their heads spin. Wife #3 gushed to me, "your father is the most wonderful man I have ever met, I'm so lucky." Poor thing. He chucked her in 2 years, just like he chucked the others. He always "became tired of all the shouting" (never mind that the shouting was about his faithlessness, selfishness and rampant IB). The misery and suffering that man caused, oh my goodness.

You should realise that the real H is the man you see NOW. The passionate devoted husband he once was was probably an illusion.

It is likely that HE wanted to be that illusion - he wasn't tricking you deliberately, he genuinely hoped that this time, with dear lovely Atlanta, it would work out and he would be happy finally.

My father was always full of incandescent hope at the start of each marriage. But none of them could survive his destructive selfish behavior and his complete lack of REAL care for his wives. It was all about him. When things went wrong, it was always everyone else's fault.

You want to believe that inside this angry hurtful self-righteous gaslighting WH is the man you met and fell in love with. You think, "If only, if ONLY I could get through to him, make him SEE. Then we'd be happy again."

What if he never was that man who you fell in love with, Atlanta? What if it was a mask he put on?

I don't know. He may have once chance left with me. I need to think on it.

He knows that this sort of situation cannot be sustained any further.

I wouldn't even worry about that until until he starts to show you true actions of change.

This is exactly my xWH. He is a complete "charmer" but it is when he is trying to rope people in. Dr Harley even said that he had a "skill set" in terms of being able to get women's attention and make them fall in love with him and that it would be hard to get him to give it up.

You have to completely ignore that he was "pretty special" in the beginning -- most serial cheaters are this way.

Focus on the fact that he was never even close to being a buyer and almost your entire marriage you have suffered from his thoughtlessness and infidelity. Meeting your ENs, avoiding things that hurt you and taking your feelings into consideration when making decisions has never been on his radar (freeloader)..

And Dr Harley says a marriage to a freeloader is a disaster -- he says there is typically infidelity early on and neglect in the marriage and if he is unwilling to convert to a buyer then you would be better off divorcing.

If your WH approaches you to say he wants to reconcile again, please do not come out of Plan B. Tell him to post here on the forum or to call Dr Harley on the radio show and we will tell you if he is serious.

Your health cannot afford these Plan B breaks anymore -- your WH just continues to gaslight and abuse you and there is only so much a person can take.

Yes. He must show you by his ACTIONS that he wants to make you feel safe. At this point, he doesn't even TRY to make you feel safe with his WORDS. He's a long way off the mark. You deserve more than this arrogant laziness.

I agree. I keep saying it: protect yourself, dear.

Missed it, Melody already was emphasizing this point. Bingo!

I was reading BRF...when Dr Harley was discussing what a disaster marriage is to a freeloader, all I could think about was your situation.

Atlanta, please just go to Plan D. Anyone reading this thread can see how badly your WH has damaged you with his gaslighting and abuse. Do you know Dr Harley has said he has seen women who endure this kind of stress end up with long term immune problems that can affect you for years?

Focus on getting healthy and stop trying to analyze why he has done X, Y and Z. It is because he is a freeloader and not marriage material.