Seriously?!? When Christ was approached by the rich young ruler He didn't say, "Dude, your just a selfish, arrogant, jerk. I don't even think your serious about this salvation thing." did he? He said (knowing that nobody can) that he should obey the commandments. The ruler lied and said he kept them since he was young. Jesus didn't say, "Liar, you can't keep the commandments. You're going to be judged for your lies one day!!" rather he pointed out his sin by asking him to sell everything (not be greedy and selfish). The ruler was sad and walked away to shouts from Christ himself "loser, I knew you weren't serious!!" No, Christ was more sad than the ruler was.

Jesus was gentle (point out where he wasn't and I will concede) with all who would listen and was harsh only with those who would not.

As i said. You are blind to what a Christian really is.

That being established.

What can we do for you? Are you here to argue with the experts or are you here to learn how to possibly dig out of this mess you have created? If its to argue than we have other hurting people here who we can help and will leave you to your misery.

If you want help than its best to not bite the hand feeding you.

Your choice.

agapelover, here is some more scripture for you:
Matt. 7:5
You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.

Really? You have self righteously decided that ML's harsh comments to you are "sin". Yet you do not find that LYING to your children about their mother's adulterous lifestyle. CONDONING her actions (semantics, you enabled her knowing that she was an adulteress, there is your intent) Here is the definition of the word CONDONE for arguments sake.


If everyone knows the truth about your situation (except your children) Then you have been a horrible model for christianity. "Love does not delight in evil but rejoices in the truth" You have directly disobeyed the word of God..see Matthew 18 on how you should deal with a sinner. And as we know disobedience is the original sin.

So let's stop pointing fingers at Melody Lane. You would be classed with the scribes and pharisees at this point. Whether or not Melody lane's comments were judgemental or not are specks compared to the SIN you are living in sir.

I suggest you leave ML specks alone and concentrate on the beams that you have to remove.

Furthermore, you've landed in the right place to help you get a grip on your marriage... or whatever it is you call it.

And to the pharisees he said "you generation of vipers".... ummmm... you're more like a pharisee than a rich young ruler

OK ~~~ enough with the posturing.

Let us get back to marriage building

I can't believe this is happening. If you are here to help does that mean you are without need yourself? I didn't come here to create a problem, but I did see one as soon as I did come. Should I ignore something I see as sin because I'm too new to do so? I don't want to argue who is most like Christ here. I want to save my broken marriage and I thought you did too. I merely pointed out a sin that, when corrected, may save hundreds more broken marriages than those already being saved. How is that me being unlike Christ? It's not. It's me fulfilling His calling. Seriously, wake up people. Am I here to save my marriage or did God send me to save you? I hope both, but I'm really hurting here and I DO want help. I want you to help others too by limiting harsh judgement and loving others as yourselves. I'm not asking that you not point out error, I'm asking that you speak the truth in love. at this point I am finding it easier to speak spiritual truth to my wife who is camping out at hell's gate then to talk about Christ to those who should already know this simple truth. It's ALL about love people. That's why we are here, that is why God designed marriage in the first place, to illustrate his Love for us. If you must know, much of the reason behind my wife leaving was my judgmental attitudes toward her. She was right!! I was a pharisee's pharisee. She was wrong for cheating and wrong for leaving and wrong for a multitude of other things, but she was absolutely right when she spoke of my Judgement and also the judgement of the church as a whole. My how far we have fallen. God forgive us all for contributing to the spiritual deaths of others.

How about we help him with marriage building instead of arguing about who is the better Christian? He admitted he has been doing it wrong. Or we can continue this pissing match because we are all so hurt and drive him away to try this on his own. Can we focus?

I am sorry, Berlin. I truly am. I really do just want help for my marriage. Please go back and read all the messages here and let someone do so with an open mind. We can help so many more people with the right attitudes. I say we delete this whole thread and start again. You are the moderator. I defer to you and your authority.

Sorry about that. Melody Lane and the other veteran posters can really help you. You need to be open to her advice.

I believe you can still save your marriage if you start from the beginning. That is following plan A and plan B.

Have you read those concepts on this site?

Dr. Harley usually says after two years of an affair, after trying his concepts then you should give up. You haven't been doing it the marriage builders way.

You should start with plan A. That would mean that you expose your affair formally to your friends and family and to the OMs friends and family.

Read up on the carrot and stick of plan A. The carrot and stick of plan A

I defer to the veteran posters though. Some may recommend plan B.

Also advisable writing in to the radio show directly. Dr. Harley will answer your questions.

I said nothing about saving your marriage. I spoke of saving your children and yourself from the limbo hell you are in. If you are a marriage at all cost kind of person, then I doubt you will listen to anything I have to say...or anyone else for that matter. Your ears may be open, but are you listening to what people are telling you?


And I'm a she

Also your wife's depression/anxiety issues are as a direct result of her adulterous lifestyle, once she has given that up, she will be miraculously cured.

ok. whew. I'm am not up to speed on the shortcuts. Is OM "other man"? and I am open to almost anyone's advice if it will help me. I have read the concepts but there is a lot there so I will likely read them several times before I move on. thank you Betrayed, I really appreciate it.

Raven,
you did though, you told me to tell my children, which may cause her to leave the OM, which may cause her to agree to our plan which will then (if we can get through the "may's" tee hee) likely save my marriage. And yes, of course I will listen. You guys are funny... you think that because someone pushed one of my buttons (one of God's buttons actually) that I'm not going to listen to great advice? Of course I'm listening. Sorry about the "he" though, in all the commotion I lost my bearings.

Oh, sorry, her depression was present from being a child in a very abusive home. She had depression well before adultery was even a concept to her. I might except generational curse, because depression does run in her family. I do believe, however, that there is healing for her that would not likely come before she turns from her sin.

just a side note... I don't want to start another argument. When He said first remove the log in your own eye before the speck I think the intention was that the sin in your life will ALWAYS be bigger than the sin in someone else's. therefore, if anyone were to assume they only had a speck in their eye they would already be in trouble from the get-go. for me personally, when I started ocular surgery on myself I was only removing specks. each time realizing the next speck was bigger than the last. As we are sanctified through Christ we realize that our specks are in fact logs and having a bigger log is often indicative of having a more accurate perspective on sin itself. I'm happy to remove my log and the next one too... there will always be another... that's the point.

going to bed now. round two tomorrow if I'm not working. I love you guys. I thought for sure I was going to get kicked on my first day. :P I'm glad you let me stay.

Are you ready to get to work and leave the enabling behind?

The point of the whole verse is to not judge hypocritically. It doesn't say that the sin in your life is "always bigger than the sin in someone else's." it tells us HOW to judge, it does not say DON'T judge.

And if you are broadening the "speck" to include ALL sin, rather than the true meaning of hypocrisy, then that makes no sense at all since we are ALL sinners. if God intended that broadened definition of speck, he would just say "don't judge." But the Bible doesn't say that; it tells us HOW to judge.

i couldn't let that stand unaddressed.

agape,
The best examples of Christ I know--they are living saints--have hearts full of love, but are also disciplined in the fire of the faith. They understand boundaries and accountability and consequences, but they also understand forgiveness. They are both forgiving but also understand the truth of tough love.

Your concern about improper judgment is symptomatic of the very issues that have led to your enabling behavior. You use your wife's past and her current state of fragility to bale her out. You, yourself, have said that you've written about what true love really is and that you've not applied those principles in your situation. Your intentions may have been heartfelt, but as they say, "The path to hell is paved with good intentions."
So apply the principles you have written about now.

A lot of damage has been done because of decisions you have made. You can do your best to fix that damage. Show your children that you have learned from their mistakes. Honestly, agape, it sounds like you are a great dad. You set limits with your children, but haven't done so with your wife. They must be very confused by this. Oh, and stop calling the POSOM her "friend." He is the devil to your family and they need to know that.

You can go into plan a, with a stick, or plan b.

If you stay in plan A, she still has to leave, and you have meet her needs away from the house until she is willing to end contact for life with her affair partner.

You need to meet with your attorney to change the current 'nesting' arrangement, which is disastrous.

Seems to me that because this has gone on for 2 years and she is not willing to change, plan b is your best option. You can write here a loving plan b letter. Being removed from her will eliminate you from enabling her.

Have you seen this?
Conflict Avoidance is the Kiss of Death

Also here.
Acroynoms and Abbreviations