FYI, Dr Harley has said many times that if the affair has not ended in 2 years that the BS should move on because the marriage is unsalvagable. He doesn't recommend extending Plan A beyond 2 years for a man. (A woman should not go beyond 3-4 weeks)

Agape: If you haven't already done so, I would suggest that you start regularly listening to the radio show, and also that you consider writing to mbradio@marriagebuilders.com about your situation. The Harleys are great at cutting through all the layers of a problem and reducing it to good plan of action. I, for one, would like to hear how Dr. Harley would address a situation that is as entrenched as yours.

Just curious. Why is nesting such a bad option? It seemed so logical to me at the time. Not shuttling children back an forth between homes and giving them the security of waking up in the same bed every morning. I do see why it conflicts with this plan, but why is it bad if we were irreconcilable? regardless, I'm pretty sure the nesting agreement was on its way out anyway, I am just curious though.

My concern about improper judgement comes from my personal witness at work and hearing time after time after time about the holier than thou attitudes causing church members to leave the faith or causing sinners to stay away. The Bible tells us to speak the "Truth in Love". It is a delicate balance that we, as Christians miss far too often (delicate both in general and on a case by case basis that requires the Holy Spirit's guidance). Most Christians fail Pharisaical --that is to say they speak truth (often just assumptions of truth) without fully considering Love. This leads to harsh judgement (or even FALSE judgement) and will most often lead a person to shutdown or shutout whatever you say to them. My error with my WW is the opposite of that. I spoke in love without delivering truth to it's fullness (permissive and enabling), expecting that "love" would win the day. "Tough Love" is often an excuse (NOT in this case mind you) to Judge first and ask questions later. It causes people to run from God and the worse part is when we blame them for not wanting it bad enough or desiring to live in sin. That is most often not the case. In the case of harsh judgement, the pain of changing seems greater to the sinner than the pain of staying the same and therefore they prefer the latter and it IS that way because of the Truth being delivered without love. I read a great book by Philip Yancey called "what's so amazing about grace" It really did change my perspective a lot, but it was only through my struggles at home that I really started to get it. My problem with my spouse to this point is simply that I didn't recognize the damage I was doing by giving in to her and had even been convinced that I wasn't. I didn't even think that I was until I began reading this website before even posting here. What led to my enabling behavior is similar to a codependent relationship. If she felt happy, I felt loved by her and when she was unhappy I did not (I call it Storge gone wild). This is exactly where I violated my own words and am remedying that currently.

In any case I'm pretty sure I already knew where I was failing for the most part(though the telling kids thing is still quite a shock to me... I must have really been indoctrinated by the system in MD as even church friends and staff told me not to) and I am still reading up on both plan A and plan B and will have to decide soon which plan to start with. I'm thinking I will still start with Plan A, but I can't imagine that lasting a month like what I thought I read was originally suggested. Plan B may be quickly forthcoming regardless, but I really need to get moving on this. Thanks for your help everyone.

thank you Eureka. where can I hear the radio show?

If I make a signature line how should it read? I don't know what they mean yet. Is D-Day "divorce date"? we were separated in Feb 2011 I'm assuming DS=dear son and DD=Dear Daughter. is there a list of these somewhere?

Nesting is a disaster when there has been an affair because it gives the wayward spouse the benefit of a married person while behaving like a single person. It is very tough mentally on the betrayed spouse.

As far as judgement goes, we are commanded to love in deed and TRUTH. That is what you have recieved here. I am not going to read your long paragraph because I view that discussion as a distraction to the main issue.

Did you read our posts about exposure to your children?

Also hit the "Listen Now" at the top right of the MB website to listen to the show.


Email your questions to Joyce Harley at mbradio@marriagebuilders.com. When your email question is chosen to be answered on the radio show, you will be notified by email directing you to listen to the rebroadcast. If you would like to consider being a caller, include your telephone number. You will be called by us to explain the procedure to you. Every caller will receive a complementary book by Dr. Harley that addresses their question.

On the homepage, www.marriagebuilders.com, right hand column. For that matter, it appears on the right hand side of *this* page! You can listen either from the web links or by getting the free mobile app that is appropriate for the type of phone you have. I like to listen from my iPhone while I am in my car.

oh, I could never be a caller. they wouldn't understand my question through my sobs. email will work just fine.

agape,
I am glad you are going to e-mail Dr. Harley. You won't regret it.

I hear what you are saying about Pharisaical thinking. It is the biggest pox on our Church today. But you have not encountered that here. What you have been met with here are people who are interested in helping you through this very difficult period. Consider it metaphorically the Bishop's slap across the face at Confirmation, but this slap awakens you to being a witness of sound marriage principles for you and your family.

There is clarity in the program. It works.

Read all the materials on this site. Read Surviving an Affair. And above all, contact Dr. Harley by e-mail.

Perhaps you would want to consider giving yourself a good shake, yanking up your socks and getting on the phone?

If I were committed to a cause, I certainly wouldn't let my emotions get in the way of me. Especially if my 'cause' was my marriage.

Mske the call, agage.

I just wrote the program and we will see where it goes from there. I actually feel a sense of excitement going forward. I really do feel like this is the right place to be. I appreciate all the help i've been given so far.


with regard to your statement (Idk how to do the quote thing)about pharisaical thinking. I'll tell you what happened, though I don't wish to start the argument going again. I don't have a problem with harsh truths in any way, shape or form. What I DO have a problem with is assumptions and subsequent judgement. I have no bad feelings concerning the many accurate accounts of my failings. I'm actually quite grateful for them. With that said I was told that I was just making excuses when I was actually just trying to bring more detail to my story jic it had bearing on the matter, I was told I was not being "christian" as if I purposely contributed to my problem when actually I was just ignorant. That statement is actually partially true because none of us are "Christian" but that certainly didn't fly in my response to that and if ignorance was what she was referring to than that statement can be made to everyone on this site, including Dr Harley (I'm sure I REALLY stepped in it there). I "sacrificed" (a word requiring intent) my children when my ideas were (though misguided)always with them first in my mind. I was told she didn't need to keep hearing my excuses even though I was still just trying to elaborate and give as much detail as was necessary, therefore, a statement telling me I was sharing too much would have been sufficient. The straw that broke the camel's back was being told I wasn't serious. If I wasn't serious I wouldn't have been pouring my heart out in great detail as I was. I was willing to discuss, confess, change, etc ANYTHING and yet, without knowing, I was told I was lazy and not serious. All from one person. Only one person out of a multitude of accurate and even harsh criticisms, only one person spoke outside of the truth and Judged. Rather than consider what had occurred everyone else circled the wagons around a respected loving woman. I see that she is respected, I understand that she is full of Love. I can see that in other posts I have read from her. She DOES seem like a wonderful lady and I love that about her, but refusal to admit any fault whatsoever is a deal breaker for someone like me who has to trust their most cherished relationships with them. If I can't admit fault I cannot help my marriage. How then can a counselor (I know she isn't technically a counselor) expect to help someone elses marriage, if they cannot own up to mistakes they have made while attempting to do so?

Then don't.

Sorry you are so upset, agapelover, but I stand behind what I said and regret not a word. It is not a sin to diasagree with you and I still disagree with you.

However, debating about it is a distraction to finding solutions. For your sake, I hope that you drop it so we can focus on solutions.

Are you ready to stop (EDIT) and listen to the most experienced, kind, helpful and truthful person on this site?

agape,

I'm glad you wrote to the program. You will find Dr. Harley's answers illuminating and clear. Be aware that his solutions can often be coutnerintuitive and may surprise you.


Time to let go of the hurt feelings. You are going to get what we call 2x4's here. Happens to many. Just listen to the good advice of the forum members and know that it comes from the best of intentions.

MODERATOR'S NOTE: PLEASE CONTACT THE MODERATORS IF YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH OTHER POSTERS.


first you are acting like I'm carrying hurt feelings. I assure you, I am not. My concern isn't even for myself. ***EDIT*** Give me every 2x4 I deserve... Please. I'm sorry if I've upset your apple cart, I'm sorry if I offended anyone by pointing out what I see as a major problem with some examples of "tough love". I don't have a problem saying that I am sorry. I am sorry that I let my situation get so out of control. I am sorry that I've been verbally abusive to my spouse. I am sorry that I once had an addiction to pornography that I felt to guilty to expose to my own church leadership until recently. I am sorry. ***EDIT*** God will restore my marriage if that is His will and I want help from everyone He has in line with regard to accomplishing that. Perhaps Dr Harley will chose to step in personally through the radio show and I would be so very grateful if he does. ***EDIT***

You do not realise one thing: your situation is not special. We've all seen every element of your story many times before. When you read more about MB and read some of the threads here, you will come to realise this too. I think you may find peace in what you will learn.

We sympathize and empathize with you. We all are/have been stumbling fools ourselves in our marriages and the only reason we are here on the board is because we are grateful that our marriages and/or sanity were saved by MB principles. We want to pass the favor forward.

MelodyLane was cutting through the emotional fog that you are in to access your reason. That fog is thick and choking and it's confusing you.

Listen, read, and learn. We are here to help you.

Have you exposed to your kids yet?

Please don't disrupt this forum with endless complaints about other members. If you have an issue with a poster, please notify the moderators and let us handle it.