zam. You are failing to see the ADDICTIVE nature of affairs. Your husband will not be honest with you as long as he is addicted to this OW. And this OW sounds very aggressive.

You need to get evidence so that you can expose this OW and stop her assault on your marriage.


That is true in any relationship but MB will teach you how to set up EP's (precautions) to eliminate the conditions that allowed the affair to happen to prevent further affairs.

The first step is to KILL the affair.

zam, you realize it is almost certain that this was a full blown PA, right? This is what Dr Harley says about opposite sex friendships.



You mentioned this OW is married and also has a boyfriend?

I sure hope you stop sticking your head in the sand, get the proof you need, and then demand that your H take an STD test -- and in the meantime, I would think about using protection.

All-
Let me clarify some things.
The initial D-day for me was 2/26/2011. I brought up the texts and how closed off he was. I did not ask for cutting off all contact because I knew it wouldn't happen anyways and I still wasn't certain lines were crossed.
For all of 2011 things were rough. I couldn't bring anything up without him getting upset. That's when I felt he was irrationally explosive.
Eventually he would calm down. He started sharing that she did ask him questions about her attractiveness and how her marriage counseling had gone and I told him I didn't feel comfortable with that. He asked for specifics and that's when I came up with my boundaries. No meeting alone. No personal discussions. No responding to perpetual requests for help. A few others. I didn't want to have to put them in writing but he asked me to. He said he began setting those boundaries and for example steering the conversation away from personal topics etc. The hard one he admitted was not doing lunch or breaks alone. He said she was very hurt by that.
2012 got better that's when they both got transferred to other departments.
Still the texts persisted. He let me look at most of them but every so often there would be one in the phone log missing, so yes, that does happen. He also shared his e-mail password(or at least one account) and sometimes she sends him pictures of herself and coworkers. He deletes those eventually.
This year he got the new job and we started getting together with his ex-coworkers(including her) but then that fell apart cause she or someone would cancel.
He says she was frustrated and so wanted to just get together with him for lunch every two weeks. My husband asked if that was ok and I said "Sure if Kevin's there." This year we have been doing really well. No more explosions. Feeling a lot closer, greater intimacy.
Maybe I'm fooling myself but here's what I think: He did not think about boundaries in the beginning and so things evolved to the point that she's just very attached. He says he knows she's hurt by the distancing but she no longer brings up personal stuff(just her kids who she's so proud of). I don't think that's completely true but he doesn't know how to put the genie back in the bottle so he deletes those texts. She's forever panicking that someone doesn't like her, etc. One time he skipped work and she texted:"Where are you?" He responded the next day...And now she seems to be pushing ever harder to go out to lunch with him.

So this last time he did go out to lunch with just her. He had been saying no for a month he said and didn't think it would hurt.
He told me about it after the fact though and after leading me to believe that Kevin was there. That's what hurts so much and why I'm so confused. He has been honest in a way.
This is just to clarify timelines. Obviously the story is not over.

Zam, are you reading our posts?

Honestly, we don't need any more backstory. We get it completely. We just need you to get it and start taking next steps.

Yes, you are in denial. Sorry.

All you have to do is look at the quotes that were provided by Dr Harley to see that lovebank deposits were made and that this is an affair. The fact that there was secrecy with the texting confirms it. People who have nothing to hide, don't hide. Period.

All of us who have been on these forums have read your story over and over and over again. It's an affair.

Besides, if you really believed what you said, then you would have no problem with the snooping because what you would find would exonerate your husband and end all this "confusion".

No some of you still think he's explosive, not sharing which has not been the case. I understand we have a ways to go but I will take it a day at a time. I'm still not sure if any relationship is worth becoming Cheater's anonymous or Sherlock Holmes. Not saying you're not correct.

Every marriage is worth digging out an affair and killing it if that saves the marriage. I can't believe that you really believe your marriage is not "worth it." Most of us here saved our own marriages using these techniques. You can't fix a marriage if you don't look under the hood.

Do you want to save your marriage? Or do you want to ignore the problem for a few more years?

Thanks all. I am feeling better, more rational. I value your opinions.

I love my husband. I truly do....but I love myself too. Women tend to turn themselves into pretzels trying to correct a man's faults. Is it always our job to keep them on the straight and narrow? I do not want to become someone I do not know. Sorry.

listen to melodylane
she is an expert at turning your life around, do you want this to be your life for ever or would you like to feel completely safe in your marriage, snoop, get the facts then come back for advice on how to proceed........
you can have a great marriage but you can't bail now........
read all you can on this site and see if some of it sounds familiar......or possible in your life.......none of us thought it could happen in our marriages either......blind faith is what happened to all of us, don't let it happen to you......

Btw does Dr Harley talk about spying anywhere? Please direct me. Thanks.

yes he does, there is an investigation thread available......

Hi Jessi: I am sure it can happen and it may...but I'll survive.

Huh? What are you talking about? Where has anyone said anything about becoming a full time detective?

My sister came here a few years ago, got advice on some snooping and was able to get the proof she needed w/n a week's time.

After being gaslit and lied to for months, she was finally able to get somewhere with fixing the real problem in her marriage, an affair.

The marriage is now recovered BTW.

Thanks Jessi. I didn't mean a forum. I mean a book or article. Thanks.

If you truly loved yourself, why would you tolerate this kind of shabby, disrespectful behavior from your husband? Do you respect yourself too?

I don't understand what you mean by this. You are turning yourself into a pretzel by allowing this affair to go on all this time AND DOING NOTHING ABOUT IT! Aren't you the kind of woman who wants to save her marriage when it is in trouble? If you had not ignored the problem all these years, you might be in fully recovered, honest, open marriage just like us.

I seriously will consider everything said here seriously.
I agree 100% that you cannot solve what you don't know so I will go to the Investigation thread next. We do not have children and I make good money and am not young. My attitude would be quite different if we had children. Even so we have a lot to fight for! You are right there.

Snooping: Is it wrong? Or, is it the right thing to do in marriage?

Good girl!!