Hello Board,
I am divorced father of 2, who had been dating long term a divorced mother of two. Recently she has broken it off with me, because I didn't make her feel loved enough.

What she needed was expressions of my undying love. I withheld that because it wasn't 100% certain. In order to commit in that way, I needed her to encounter MB principles with me and to have us work together, POJA, meet emotional needs and avoid lovebusters.

Based on what she says/said, I did a good job of meeting her emotional needs excepting affection (my interpretation, not her words). She did a good job of meeting my emotional needs, which is why I want to save the relationship if it is possible. What she also did in meeting my ENs, was a heavy dose of disrespectful judgements. I got repeatedly told what I was thinking, what I was feeling, what my motivations were. None of those DJs were accurate, and so I tried to encounter the MB concepts with her, but something so analytical did not mesh with her view of how ROMANCE works, she didn't want to "read a book with me to make me love her".

So I thought that she needed time to come around, to build trust, and that I could be patient and gentle and caring. She saw this as being satisfied with the status quo. She now wants to see if there is someone out there, "who will love her for her", meaning pass all the tests without even knowing what they are.

We are completely compatible other than how we view we should care for our romantic partner, I believe in the "science" of MB, she believes in the "magic" of destiny.

So my dilemma is what do I do? She has asked for "time" and "space". I'd like to PlanA her, but if I honor her request there is no opportunity to do so. I believe that honoring her request will just permit her to detach further. I also do not want to be a "stalker" but at the same time wonder if this is another TEST to see if I care enough to continue to pursue her in the face of all the obstacles, and PROVE my love. The self doubt is killing me. I know that I am not objective and the lack of clear or contradictory messages from her makes it worse, so I am hoping that the board can help me clarify my thinking...

WHAT DO I DO?!?!

Have you read the book Buyers Renters and Freeloaders?
Her statement about "accepting her for who she is" is right out of the book: It's the freeloaders creed.

I suggest you use this opportunity to date other women.
Look for women that have a philosphy of marriage and life similar to yours, instead of trying to educate one

Agreed with Jedi.

Also, how long is "long term"? It sounds like she was tired of waiting to see if this was going to lead to marriage or not.

If you aren't certain after a long term (ie. 2 years or more) and there are DJs, not to mention a blended family, then it seems wise to date other women and find one that already fits the bill, rather than try and mold this one.

Thank you boardmembers that have replied, I don't know that I am thinking clearly so having a sanity check helps.

I don't want to "educate" her or "mold" since that is a DJ on my part, and mostly why I have tread so lightly on that subject.

I guess I feel disloyal if I "give up". I am not sure I emotionally understand the diifference between giving up and accepting the facts.

Please read.
Buyers, Renters and Freeloaders

You love her because she does a good job of meeting your needs.

But you also need to look logically at many other things to see if she is a good candidate for marriage.

The five points of compatibility is one test she should pass to be a good candidate.

The other is - is she likely to be buyer? A renter who is looking to become a buyer within marriage is what you want.

Based on your description, she sounds like a freeloader. She doesn't want to put in any real effort, not now not ever. The general way you spot a freeloader is someone likely to say: "If you don't love me without my making any effort - then you are not right for me".

Freeloaders believe in unconditional love - you should love them no matter what they do, like the way a baby is loved by a parent.

Being a freeloader is a good thing on a first date, when you SHOULDN'T be trying too hard. On a first date you want someone who initially 'loves you for you' as there will be enough work to do later.

However being in a marriage with a freeloader is a disaster as they have no interest in pleasing you and get upset if you don�t love them for their lack of care.

You could try introducing MB concepts to her without the books - i.e. Will you always be brutally honest? Will we agree on joint solutions?

But I think she's a die-hard freeloader who believes the magic of love will always do the work for her.

Theres a good test in Buyers, Renters and Freeloaders which will tell you how to spot them.

The waiting-game does not work in relationships...
I guess I 'waited' for my ex to re-negotiate our relationship.
Waited for her to negotiate long-term solutions instead of patchwork... Did not happen. Result: she cheated and got herself an exit-affair.

People will not change themselves as long as the status-quo remains unfortunatly.

I am pretty sure that she already found that certain "someone out there", and is now exploring that relationship. She just wants you as a backup plan - time to move on.

AGG

I've heard Dr Harley say: "Don't work too hard on dating relationships"

They are an interview for marriage. If you were hiring someone for a job, you wouldn't bother reeducating and coaching them if they weren't suitable, would you?

Hi Board, checking in again and wanted to reply to some comments that I missed above and some of the new contributions since I checked in:

Alis:
==>Also, how long is "long term"? It sounds like she was tired of waiting to see if this was going to lead to marriage or not.

answer: 5 yrs, sure I agree she gave up on it leading to a marriage that she envisioned. We weren't able to get to discussing a marriage that WE envisioned.

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BrainHurts, Indie, Gerold ==> The only reason I am hesitant to write her off as a freeloader is that she is not lazy or uninterested in any other area of her life. She is kind of close-minded, and it does take her a looooongg time to try or adopt new ideas. Once she has given them a chance, she ends up loving them. I think it is her attachment to the idea that there is this one magical thing out there. That may very well be insurmountable, I get that.

I think she would completely be a buyer if she gave MB a chance. We are compatible in virtually every other way than how we care for each other and a relationship.

I tried at first without the books, but figured I was doing a bad job of presenting MB myself, so asked her to read them with me so DrH could tell the story in his words. In hindsight, I probably wasn't doing as bad as I thought, it was the ingrained resistance.

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Indie==>
Theres a good test in Buyers, Renters and Freeloaders which will tell you how to spot them.
==> I will revisit to look at the test.

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AGG ==> yes, I agree, and I am 97% sure I know who etc. I think that she became emotionally attached to him (or the idea of him) while detaching from me. Don't think she "acted" on it until we were split up, still may not have acted as the romantic ideal mindset she has includes her being asked, not her asking.

The moving on part is where I am breaking down.

Intellectually I understand you are all right, emotionally I am struggling to pull the cord.

Thank you.

That is a very long time! If you haven't progressed and seen eye to eye by now.... you never will. And it is disrespectful to keep trying to change people. Let them be who they are and look for what you want elsewhere.

On my third date with my boyfriend we were discussing POJA and RH in layman's terms and it was clear to me we had the same approach to life. It really is not that difficult to find out how people view relationships. If you read B,R and FL's you will become an expert on how to do this.



That is not what Freeloader means. A person with a freeloader approach to relationships may very well be busy and successful in other areas of life. They expect to work on some areas of life. But relationships are an area of life they don't want to view as 'work'

The definition is:
"A Freeloader is unwilling to put much effort into the care of his or her partner in a romantic relationship. He or she does only what comes naturally and expects only what comes naturally."

They view working on a relationship as unromantic. They often have a passionately held belief that they should find an undying love which is so strong that no work will be necessary.

There is actually a lot to be said for the freeloader approach. Since they want a natural and easy match they usually find someone with whom they are highly compatible.

However when the relationship becomes more serious, work will be required and that's when they must either up their game and become a renter or the freeloader in them decides the relationship is too much work.


It really is not your place to tell her how to think, just because you want to convert her. I am sure the legnthy discussions about MB have been very arduous to someone with her beliefs. If she wants to believe love is magical and does not need work, she is a single woman who is free to believe what she wants. It is your place to say: "Well what I want is something completely different, so I think we are not well matched. i think you are amazing though and best of luck". If she changes her mind on her own later, she knows how to reach you and tell you so.


It will be very hard after five years, but you must be true to what you want in life, and let others be true to what they want. You will be OK

I agree with the others, and want to add that breaking up after 5 years is painful, but it's way more painful to break up after 10 or 15 years with a house and kids.

I was married to a girl that was a complete freeloader, turned renter, back to freeloader. Basically, she figured that our relationship should be easy, but at the same time was disappointed when I didn't care for her like she thought I should. Little did I know that I was secretly being compared to an old boyfriend (fantasy) that she believed would be perfect in every way, and therefor romanticized the freeloader approach.

As you probably guessed: that didn't ultimately work out and it sucked big time. I tried to talk her into MB principles, but she HATED how practical they are. Now we are divorced and she is cruising through boyfriends like cookies.

Don't do what I did, identify the renters/freeloaders in the first month and if they aren't on board, then move on.

ak

Ak1, thanks. Your empathy and sharing of circumstances that so similarly paralell mine, help me to know
1) This is not me screwing up because I am a loser, it just happens sometimes that the best intentions are not enough.
2) The risks associated with clinging to an ideal that just won't ever materialize. I mean, me, you and your ex. We three have managed to make it worse than it needed to be for our own selves.

Again,
Thank you board.