Dr. Harley suggests that if he wants sex three times a week, then he makes sure to schedule 3 blocks of 4 hour dates for UA time. If he wants it five times a week, then 5 blocks of 4 hour dates. And the UA time is to be for you, too. He should be using UA time to meet your needs and help you get in the mood. There is hardly anything more charging to a woman's libido than to feel her husband appreciates his wife, is not disrespectful or critical to her, and lets her know through conversation that he cares for and loves her and is there for her.

Have you two read the article "Question of the Ages?" Dr. Harley suggests that you talk about it if it can be done without Lovebusters.

He also said that sometimes sex can be spontaneous (that is, without the preliminaries the wife needs) but he didn't suggest it to be often; it shouldn't become a habit, and that's only after the two have a romantic marriage firmly established.

Yes, I enjoy it most of the time on those days

Somewhere, MelodyLane has a great post summarizing the two things Dr. Harley says a woman needs to enjoy a sexual relationship with her husband:

1) she needs to feel bonded to him
2) she needs to have the prospect of enjoyment - i.e., it needs to be likely that sex is going to be engaged in in a way she finds enjoyable

You're working hard to achieve that emotional bond, and I think when the conversation gets tuned up and the criticism goes away and the UA stays consistent (tune it up by doing more of it out of the house!) you will find it arriving.

Dr. Harley suggests that when one spouse has a higher need than the other, the need should be met as often as the higher need spouse wants, but in a way that the lower need spouse likes. What would that mean for you? (More preliminary time of conversation and connection?)

Here's a good show.
Radio Clip
Segment #2
Segment #3

What would that mean for you? (More preliminary time of conversation and connection?) [/quote]

I'm not sure how to make it more enjoyable other than being into him more. Maybe you're right and it will come after the UA time and the LBs gone. I just can't see myself having sex more than I am right now. I always dread sex nights

I could've written this word for word just a few months ago.
I hated sex. And I hated markos. The thought of having to have sex as often as he wanted disgusted me. He would ask me what he could do to make it enjoyable for me, and I'd just laugh and roll my eyes.

BUT ... as soon as he actually eliminated his lovebusters, and as soon as we started getting enough UA, I couldn't help but fall in love with him. Now I eagerly have sex with him as much as he wants (never thought I'd hear my self say that!).

Here's the formula:

1) you need to feel bonded to him (UA + NO LOVEBUSTERS!)
2) you need to have the prospect of enjoyment - it needs to be done in a way you enjoy, and not just whatever he wants.

That's what I'm hoping for and what keeps me going. The good thing about FTF is that he is willing to make it enjoyable for me. I just don't know what to say

You'll make it if you keep following the program.
How is your UA? How many hours? Is it enjoyable?
How are the lovebusters? Are they less frequent/intense? Are you reporting them to each other so that you know what work needs to be done?

We need to work on UA time the most. Last week we only got 9.5hrs. We usually just go out to eat but occasionally we will do something fun. Sometimes it's hard to have fun when you know you're just going to have to go home and have sex again when you really don't want to

Feuillecouleur,

What traits did OM have that you found irresistible that your BH does not have.

God Bless
Gamma

I agree with you. You are not getting near enough hours to fill your lovebank.
Nothing else will work if you do not get those hours.
There really is, indeed, something magically about the 15th hour.

Go out and focus on the fun time together. Do a lot of talking.

I don't think the answer to this question will be constructive at all.


I can answer, in general, for all WW's from the beginning of time as to what makes an OM attractive;


Due to lack of opportunity, he didn't commit many, if any, Love Busters.


For a WH the OW would be attractive because the same, and... because she willingly and enthusiastically met some needs.


Let's not encourage ruminating about affair partners in the guise of it "helping" a marital recovery.

PoUA, PoRH, and PoJA will make her husband attractive again.

HHH,

I don't think the answer to this question will be constructive at all.

Funny in some of the Dr. Harleys radios shows he says that the BH has to out-compete the OM, do whatever the OM was doing only better.

God Bless
Gamma

Yes, but we've already established the problems here: not enough UA time, conversation not enjoyable enough, criticism (DJs).

Add enough UA time and make the conversation enjoyable enough and things will probably be great.

And HHH is right - typically what the OP did was meet the most important emotional needs and abstain from love busters. I like the comment about "for lack of opportunity."

FightTheFight will absolute be outcompeting once he gets his wife to fall in love with him.

It is and it isn't. One cannot very well do the same things or do things better than another person if one does not know what that other person did in the first place. So, all BS's are left doing back flips and trapeze moves (figuratively, not literally, or maybe both) trying to "replace" the OP by fulfilling the needs of our WS in the same way that OP fulfilled them, but the WS never seems to want to tell us what way that was. (Step right up and claim your magic wand and too bad you did not p/u your crystal ball before this whole mess began.)


Opportunity is a good word of choice. Too bad all WS's and OPs do not move-in together the minute they begin an affair. I knew that if WS bought that season pass to Disneyland and went every single day, all day long and had to find out that sometimes the ride breaks just before it is your turn, sometimes it is so hot and miserable and sometimes the combination of food and movement make you very ill. But, if you have taken "extraordinary precautions" to only go to Disneyland on fair weather days, on days when the lines are guaranteed to be short, the rides cannot break and you eat a sensible lunch so that you won't vomit - you will always love Disneyland.

In reality, a BS cannot try to do whatever the OP did anymore than you can make a car fly over the road while spinning around in circles as they can at Disneyland. BS's have to avoid LB's and make lots of deposits to the WS's love banks while dealing with the bills, the children, the laundry, different schedules, food allergies, special needs, etc. An OP does not have to deal with any of those real life challenges with the WS, so there is no "opportunity" to love bust. Every minute that AP's are together, they are in a perpetual honeymoon state.

It's a habit here when attempting to help along a BS to refer to the environment of an affair as "fantasy."

While this is correct, it isn't quite a Frodo-walking-the-one-ring-to-Mordor type fantasy. It is a fantasy because the SSL the affair exists in is one in which needs like FS, FC, and DS are not required to be met, where child-rearing is not a focus, where the mortgage and light bill are never a matter of discussion, where no arguments erupt over an impending visit from the in-laws.

It is, again, an environment that is rather free from Love Busters, and largely free from even the opportunity to Love Bust.

The "fantasy bubble" of an affair is a world that exists solely for the exchange of meeting emotional needs.

This means that even the needs that are met, don't even have to be met expertly. They have to meet a minimal satisfactory level, and due to the lack of LB$ withdrawals... Romantic Love and attraction develop.

It's also why when left to stand on their own, without a BS supporting from either side, the affair eventually disintegrates in 2-3 years.


In closing, and addressing the "compete with the AP" advice - sure. We tell people to compete with an AP when a wayward is in contact, the affair is active, and the wayward is cake eating. It is also backed by something else Dr. Harley notes; the BS is usually at advantage when there is a long marital history, and mutual children; these things are something an AP CAN NOT bring to the table, and by a BS shoring up the meeting of Emotional Needs, they will always out-compete an AP.

Digging into what made affair-sex exciting is a waste of time, a distraction, and an exercise in bringing the past into the present. What makes affair-sex enjoyable (other than an off-shore LB$ account) is; novelty, and fear - it's shop-lifted nookie. Shoplifting is fun... until you get caught.

Is your H adamant that you have SF as a part of date nights?

In a place where a spouse is trying to entice back their partner by filling ENs I can certainly see SF being a requirement in trying to create romantic loving feelings. In this situation feuillecouleur still does not have those feelings yet. So is making SF a requirement necessary? Is this possibly something her and her H could negotiate?

There are no affairs in our M but her and I are trying to do the things that keep our romantic feelings around. Making SF be something she has to do is a turn off for her. I am very patient with her and we generally have SF when we are both in the mood. We don�t schedule it despite it being a strong suggestion of many on this board. Dr Chalmers never suggested to Mrs Alias and I to schedule it.

If her H is OK with not making it a requirement meaning it sounds like it will make the rest of their UA time more enjoyable for her, hence helping her develop loving feelings quicker and maybe more intensely, would taking SF as a requirement off the board be a good thing � the right thing to suggest?

Again this would be totally dependent on his ability to maintain his love for her.

My thinking is that Dr. Harley would urge feuillecouleur to agree to making sex a part of date nights. It builds the association between a good time and sex.

I've heard him give other recommendations in situations where a wife absolutely would not agree to sex at first, but she has.

FightTheFight indicated yesterday he had emailed the radio show, so hopefully they can get a specific recommendation soon.


I don't get the impression from Dr. Harley that scheduling sex is a hard and fast rule, but this couple needs to work on this specific issue, and that's one of his usual recommendations.

Given the UA time number she posted, there's a very good chance that when they start getting that magical 15th hour on a regular basis, things will change for her. That would be the first cause to look at as to why her feelings about sex haven't changed. Making changes to try to make 9 hours more enjoyable won't possibly do what getting 15 hours will do.

I think she should shoot for 20, I never been through recovery but its recommended to get 15-20 a week isn't it? Also, when was the last time you and your husband took a vacation? Just the two of you. IIRC the good doctor has stated a 2-3 week vacation is recommend to prime the pump of the UA sessions.