Hi all dear friends,

Its so fantastic to read everyone's experiences and the support given here, you have no idea how important its been for me.

Admittedly I've been at my wits' end trying to figure out what to do, so many what ifs, that I'm sure the community can give me some direction.

Just a brief summary....

I'm Asian and my wife is Asian too, I'm 35 and she's 29. We got married 6 months after knowing each other 8 years ago (yes i know, bad sign), and migrated here to Australia from our home country 5 years ago. We have no kids.

In short, she moved out (without my consent or any discussion) 4 months ago, and is staying with a female colleague from work. Her reasons:

1) Gradual neglect over many years
2) Living like room mates rather than spouses
3) She wanted to start a family but I kept putting it off, in favour of building our finances
4) She suspected some sort of indiscretion on my part (but nothing happened)
5) i had a sever porn addiction which i am aware off, but in recent times has gotten worse.


Right now, she is waiting for me to take action to dissolve our assets however is firm about not coming back, nor working on our marriage. In her words, she is "done".

On my part, we used to support our house mortgage together but now, I'm left holding the fort...I can do this indefinitely even though it means I can't save and all my resources go into the mortgage.

In these months, I've taken extreme steps...I've gone for psychological counselling on the porn, and am undergoing Christian marital counselling (by myself) as a born again Christian. This she knows of, but refuses to participate (my pastor has called her), she is firm on the separation and divorce. Apparently she has thought of this for many months.

Currently my contact with her is limited to the occasional phone call and sms regarding financial matters (we still have joint assets, transactions, her mail still comes to the house which I forward to her office). She has refused to tell me her address so I am lost there....I only know her work details, and her mobile.

Initially in the first couple of weeks of her leaving I tried everything...going to her workplace, getting our families involved, and nothing worked. So its now at a stalemate where she's waiting for me to give up, and talk to her about the division of assets, and I'm holding on, waiting for her to soften her hard stance.

Throughout these few months I've done my own soul searching and I know i can do better...my Church is very supportive and I've been really busy helping in Church activities, building more of a social circle etc.

I know I need to do something to change the status quo, but what? Like a shock to the system...I have Divorce Remedy but I can't really understand a 180 from my situation...if I go No Contact (this drives her crazy, the last time I did this-I was REALLY busy-she called multiple times one day to pressurize me to take action on the house) it still doesnt lead me anywhere. Besides, 1 of the reasons she cited was neglect....won't No Contact just be an extension of that?

Ultimately, I know what she feels is right in her eyes, I just want to find a way to SHOW her the changes I've gone through, our limited communication makes this hard.

I'll add other details as we go along...but for now, I would really appreciate any feedback.

Thanks everyone...I'm chugging along as best as I can.

Hello BornAgain, welcome to Marriage Builders

The good news is: you have a very good chance of winning your wife back.

Have you read the basic concepts yet? And have you read about Plan A?

I would suggest that you click notify on the bottom of your post and ask the mods to move your thread to MB101 -- you will get more help there.

Also, just to be sure, have you snooped to confirm there is no affair? It is best to rule that possibility out.

Hi, BornAgain. Welcome to Marriage Builders. I am sorry for what brings you here.

There is a good chance that Dr. Harley's approach to saving marriages can probably help your situation, but it will be hard to implement at first because your wife is so dead-set on ending the marriage. I would have to agree on her right to end your marriage over porn, as that is a horrible blow to deal to her. I gave my wife that same right several years ago, but thankfully we have recovered our marriage.

Have you read Dr. Harley's Basic Concepts? Read through this article on his approach so the posts and articles here will make sense to you: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3100_how.html

Basically what you need to do to save your marriage is to get your wife to fall in love with you again. You can do that using the help on this site. I promise you that if she is in love with you, she will not want to divorce you. But you will have to make some changes to bring that about.

When I say "love," I am talking about romantic love, the feeling of romantic attraction and desire that couples usually begin a marriage with. You may hear from some sources that this feeling fades over time, but according to Dr. Harley about 20% of marriages are able to sustain this feeling for a lifetime by doing the right things.

This brings me to Divorce Remedy and the 180 - I agree with your instincts and I think Dr. Harley would, too, that not having contact with your wife would be a very bad idea. Dr. Harley does not recommend these plans at all. You need to be having conversation with your wife in order to bring about the feeling of romantic love, and you need to be spending as much pleasurable time with her as possible (as much as she will allow). "The 180" appeals to some people who are mad and want their spouses to fix the problem, but it doesn't fix neglect and usually just torpedoes a marriage.

Let's get you started reading through the material on this site so that you can learn to save your marriage by getting your wife to fall in love with you again:
Dr. Harley's Basic Concepts
Marriage Builders Videos
Marriage Builders Radio (this was and is my daily source of support in recovering my marriage) (archives)

Thanks you all for your comments..it is very encouraging.

While I have not really done snooping I am sure it is not due to an affair.

Where I am (Australia) it takes at least a year of separation before one can file for a divorce...so far I am slightly more than 4 months in.

I would not say I am 100% rid of my demons but due to my new found Christian faith I am at least a significant amount of the way there.

I am building myself up socially too, more friends, being active in my Church which can only be good for my mental well-being. I now feel more like the person my wife fell in love with (I realize I changed due to the excessive porn, reclusive and bitter over small things).

My contact with her is so limited:

1) I don't know exactly where she lives as she does not want to reveal

2) I have email, mobile, sms, whatsapp contact

3) I have the details of her workplace.

This is what makes it so challenging as I am the person who is trying to prove myself that I am being more of the "old" me, but yet whenever she initiates contact, it is for financial or monetary things, and when I do, I can't help letting it delve into our problems.

I just wish she would take some time to monitor and observe my changes for herself.

I did read the basic concepts and also plan A, however am still a little confused as to how to apply it in this case?

Hi Everyone,

Just a small update.

Wife has again been asking me to tell her when I want to talk about our assets - she wants to discuss how to divide them.

I have never wanted to give up so politely (but firmly) emailed back saying that there is nothing to talk regarding the house and that i was not considering any action (even though I am essentially supporting the house myself now, but I consider it a necessary evil).

Besides, my Christian faith does not allow me to do anything negative towards the marriage.

Strangely enough....I felt good while doing it. It felt as though I was standing up for my beliefs and that this all meant something.

Have you thought about emailing Dr. Harley?


Email your questions to Joyce Harley at mbradio@marriagebuilders.com. When your email question is chosen to be answered on the radio show, you will be notified by email directing you to listen to the rebroadcast. If you would like to consider being a caller, include your telephone number. You will be called by us to explain the procedure to you. Every caller will receive a complementary book by Dr. Harley that addresses their question.

Not all of the concepts fall in line with His word so pay close attention. Be still.

Well, I would completely disagree with that. Dr. Harley is a Christian and has drawn his concepts from Christianity, for use in any marriage.

There are some differences of opinion about the Word of God, you know.

wipedout, if you have objections to anything Dr. Harley presents, it's considered bad form to present those objections on the thread of someone else seeking help. That is distracting to people who came here to learn Marriage Builders. The terms in the announcements section of the board says to discuss your objections in other topics, on your own thread.

For the record, I believe that Jesus is the Son of God, and I believe that the Bible is infallibly the Word of God, and I don't believe that I see any discord between Dr. Harley's concepts and the Bible or Christianity.

And if you pick and choose which parts of Marriage Builders you want to use, it won't work.

Pretty defensive markos.... I did not try to discuss it with BA23, I'm sure he is intelligent enough to do his own research. I also came here for help too. My husband left me when we were trying to follow the MB concepts. I am waiting in limbo for my husband to contact me. (Following Steve Harley's advice) Be still is what I am doing.

I have not picked and chosen from the program, I simply have included God in my plan. The MB concepts do not include God at the center. While I can understand that might deter individuals seeking help, we are called to honor God. Leaving Him out of the equasion is more reckless than not following all parts of the MB program.

Have you ever looked closely at the MB logo?


But it's not honoring to God to dishonor people's wishes about their property, is it? I just nicely explained the policy on the forum, but if you don't want to follow it, I can notify the mods. If you don't like the way the forum is run, you should take it up with the people who own it, not just break the rules.

I find Matthew 22 helpful in relation to these types of questions:

36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

I've always understood the MB program as being very grounded in this idea of love thy neighbor as thyself: no lovebusters, especially no demands, disrespect, or anger; extraordinary care; consideration of your spouse's feelings and sensitivities in all that you do.

You do know that the Harleys are Christians, correct?

Have you really looked at the MB logo?

DO NOT disrupt this new posters thread any further with your issues.

Start your own thread!

Please continue helping this new member with recovering his marriage.

Thank you,,,,

Is this your call?
Radio Clip
Segment #2
Segment #3
Segment #4

Indeed it is....some great suggestions offered.

There has been some small changes since:

Just this past Friday there has been some small but significant (at least to me) change.

After almost 3 months of not seeing my separated wife I I was able to meet with her (I asked) for a quick dinner. We did not talk about the separation but rather kept it light, talked about the weather and daily life topics, no heavy topics or signs to show I that angling for her to come back. She didn't bring up the separation nor talked about pressuring me to move forward with divorce.

I was also able to dop her to where she parked her car and was able to buy some groceries for her, she even thanked me afterwards.

In my eyes there is at least some communication going on now however I seem to be at a standstill as to how to proceed next, I hope to build something out of this small change which would lead to her coming back, by showing how I have changed for the better these few months. I don't want to scare her off again, but do not want to be so neutral as not to get anywhere.

Thoughts anyone? Would be extremely useful..