I ran across this thread in the MB forum, and I read through it. I am like the wife in that situation and I am disheartened to hear how that story turned out.
http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2082250

My husband and I recently completed the Marriage Builders eight week course--we finished it about two months ago.

My husband is a wonderful man. He's patient and kind and a wonderful father. I have wronged him terribly. I have never felt passion for him. I knew even before we were married that the feelings weren't there, but I thought that I could make myself fall in passionate love with him. It happens all the time in arranged marriages. Lest anyone think I am rewriting history, I remember a letter I wrote him after a fight when we were engaged. It is a breakup letter. In it I state something along the lines of that it's not just this one issue, it's just that this fight made me realize that I'm not that upset at the thought of us breaking up because the feelings aren't there. That letter was never given, he apologized and came to my side after the fight and sadly I am just terrible at asserting myself. Especially because he is such a wonderful, sweet man and I couldn't hurt his feelings. And he checked all the boxes. All of my family and friends think he's great. During the wedding I was thinking of someone else. Nobody in my life now, nobody I have a current interest in. Just someone whom I had felt that passion for.

I am well aware that all of my seeming generosity about sparing his feelings might have been the most heartless thing I've ever done.

We completed the MB course and things were a little better. I went from on the verge of divorce to loving him. I love him still. But I am not sexually attracted to him. It is a struggle to have sex, like I am kissing my brother. He is attractive, he is in good shape. But there is no physical chemistry. Even with the course, that was never created. It was never there in the first place. I was hoping the course could create it. But it seems that the course can only rekindle what was there in the first place.

I am not witholding sex. But it's repulsive to me and I have to think about other men in order to do it. Sometimes I'm good at hiding it, sometimes I'm not and he asks me why I'm so distant. I still have a sex drive but would prefer to service myself than have sex with him.

The Greeks talk about many forms of love. I love him in all those ways except for Eros. I wish we could have an open marriage and he could get sex elsewhere.

We've talked about it, radical honesty, but I just don't know why. It hurts him, and I am just tired of hurting him. He asks what he's doing wrong, how he can change. He is very frustrated that I tell him he's not doing anything wrong. He is convinced that this is just a "me" problem and there is no such thing as physical chemistry or incompatibility. That there must be a tanglible, fixable reason.

I hope he is right, but I don't know what to try next to pinpoint it and fix it.

I don't want to rob any more years of happiness if this is something that can't be overcome. But the thought of living the next 40 years of my life without erotic love is sickening.

I don't want to break up my family, I want a solution. Or hope. I can provide more information as needed.

Welcome, mte.
A little more info, please:
How long married? Any kids? Have you told him everything you've told us here?

How many hours of UA time do the two of you have every week?

How often do you fantasize/masturbate?

Do you have a habit of ogling other men?

Do you view porn? Read romance novels? Watch a lot of romance movies, and ogle the men in those movies?

We'll be celebrating our fifth anniversary next month. We have one 2 year old.

Yes, I've told him everything. He believes this is a case of me "rewriting history". He doesn't share my view that I've never felt passion for him. He thinks it's something I need to get over, since there I've told him there is nothing he can do differently to influence my feelings.

We are having some, how do you say, logistical conflicts when it comes to our careers and income. But these aren't easily fixable due to the job market. More importantly, I don't think fixing it, whatever that means, will fix this problem and it will cause him to stop doing a job he loves considerably (with no other lined up).

We hashed all of this out in the MB course and while we came to enthusiastic agreement about a course of action, the job market hasn't allowed us to pursue that and of course even when we came to that agreement I was happy and loved him and appreciated him, but still not feeling the romantic erotic love.

Sorry for the vagueness, I'm trying to be cognizant of the fact that this is a public forum. But I'm happy to provide further information.

I feel like over the course of our marriage it goes like this:
Me: I'm not happy in this marriage because the feelings aren't there.
Him: We need to fix it. What do we need to do?
Me: I don't know. The feelings aren't there. I guess I could use more [emotional need]
He does it and then I find that I am still not feeling the feelings, and feeling even more guilty because of the effort he puts forth. Then I identify something else that might be that elusive missing piece. And it's not it. And it keeps repeating.

If I were him I would be very frustrated and thinking "No matter what I do, I can't make her happy".

We have about 10 hours of UA each week. We don't have the financial resources to do anything except stay at home while the baby sleeps and talk or watch TV.

He is my best friend and I enjoy spending time with him. I just hate it when sex or talking about our relationship comes up.

1) A few times a week.
2) No, I don't have that habit. Attraction is more than physical attraction and seeing a man walking down the street, however handsome, is not that big of a deal. The attraction to other men I have are men that I have known in my life.

3) No porn or romance novels. The books I read are fiction with romantic themes but none of that explicit stuff. I watch some romance movies but am under no illusion that romantic love is like in the movies.

Restoration usually requires 25+ hours each week, maintainence requires 15+.

And, those hours are meant to be spent with just the 2 of you meeting the needs of Intimate Conversation, Recreational Companionship, Affection, and Sexual Fulfillment - though the last is a stumbling block, it should improve with the proper amount of time given to the other 3.

Yes, more hours, but use it to go out and have fun together. Work together to find some recreation out of the house. Do you have the recreational inventory? Have you filled it out?

Hm. Not enough. And don't count watching TV as UA time. It's more like parallel play. You'll need to up that to twice as much just to strike the spark. And you'll need to get out of the house. Babysitters - got some? Utilize them. Don't have some? Get them. They'll be worth their weight in gold as you become bonded to your H.

At this point it appears that your jobs are more important than your marriage. I'd suggest you revisit that agreement about which you both enthusiastically agreed regarding your jobs. It hasn't worked, so you'll need to come up with another plan.

That's managable, you only have one bad habit to deal with.

Standard advice would be to stop fantasizing and stop masturbating.

Both of those things create a contrast effect with sex with your husband.

One of the most basic rules is that your spouse should be the only one who meets the four Intimate Emotional Needs - and fantasizing and masturbating is a violation of that exculsivity.

Now, I'm not really going to sit here and tell you that masturbation is "bad," but I will tell you that it is harmful to your marriage.

I know. But we can't afford a babysitter. My husband has stopped trying to pursue our original agreement because he has found real happiness at a job that doesn't pay. We are on public assistance and I worry about making ends meet enough already.

I have been trying to think of ideas these past few days that don't require money.


Yes, I suspect this is a bigger factor than I've been giving it credit for. The only way out of our financial mess is for me to take any job, like it or not, where I can bring in all of the money, so that he can keep doing this job that he loves but I have little respect for as a career. And then our son will be in daycare, even though he's thrived so beautifully at home so far. Since he doesn't want any more children this is the only baby I will get to mother and I hate the idea of having to work full time when he's still so little.

I guess I'm just afraid of hashing it all out, telling him he needs to resume hunting for a real job or going back to school, when he loves his job so much. And what if I have him do all of that, we work on the marriage, and I still feel the same way about him? Then he would be giving up a job he loves for nothing.

So that's why I'm hesitant.

I think about other men who are financially secure, about how I could have more children if I remarried, but more children with my husband seems out of the question. So I guess that counts as fantasizing and I really need to stop.

You could also thinking about learning to talk to your husband respectfully.

People often have little respect for my career, even more so being a man. To hear it from my wife? It's rather disrespectful.

Then there is the whole "hunting for a real job" line. Again, disrespect the work and you also disrespect the man.

The real key here is that your need for Financial Support isn't being met, and that is what you need to address - and address it in a respectful manner.


What kind of work does your husband do?

Yes, I would never say I have no respect for it as a career to him. It's great as a part time job and it was really cool when he did it in college.

But the contempt probably comes through even when I don't say it. Thank you for pointing that out, I will try to pay attention to it.

But I do remember the class, and I try not to verbalize DJs. I always frame it as "this doesn't make enough money to make ends meet, what could we do to make that happen?" And the result is always me getting something, anything. However daycare is a huge expense and I really am trying to find something that will pay more than daycare.

Let's say the career is a surfing teacher, working for a company and not self-employed. There is not enough demand for starting a surf teaching company, but working as as surf teacher pays about $24K or less. We are in a high COL area because there are few places in the country where there are waves to surf.

(Sorry if that sounds silly, I am trying not to post too much identifying info).

It would appear the only way for him to meet my need for financial support would be to quit a job he loves and can't be happy doing anything else. Anytime that prospect comes up, or the prospect of cutting down his hours to take over DS so my son is not in daycare for too long, it's met with resistance.

Eros,

What does he love more ... you or the job?

Sometimes you simply have to put it to him point blank.

"I would love it if together we made enough money for us to make ends meet and get off of public assistance. I don't want to spend my entire M being the primary breadwinner. It is my dream to be there for our child as much as possible."