Married 25 years, both high-earning professionals. Wife's an engineer, I'm a scientist. Empty nesters.

I've done the research, and maybe I'm missing something. My wife and I took the Needs Questions and I really dug deep to give her my whole heart in my answers. She read all the basics and took it, and her scores were... of the 10 Needs, zeros for 6, 1's for 4. Basically, she agrees she has no emotional needs. I didn't say she hasn't been being fulfilled, nor that she is totally satisfied. She Has. No. Needs.

Any suggestions?


I feel like all I've done with this exercise is show her that I'm unhappy, and that's not true. I just want to be valued.

How independent of each other have you been?

It sounds like she is in the state of withdrawal. It's not that she doesn't have any emotional needs, she just doesn't have a desire for you to meet them.

How many hours alone are you getting together? Have you read about Undivided Attention (UA)?

Basically, the two of you need to be getting out of the house together 4 times a week, for four hour dates. On these dates you should be focused on each other, meeting the 4 Intimate Emotional Needs: Affection, Intimate Conversation, Recreational Companionship, and ending with Sexual Fulfillment.

Hello, and welcome to MB!

The reason you can't find anything about a person having no EN's is because that is not the case. She DOES have EN's. It may be that she is so withdrawn that she feels that she isn't interested in having you meet them, or that you simply can't, or she may be getting her needs met outside of your marriage.

This could indicate an affair, or that she gets her needs met from her friends and family.

When my H and I first took the EN test, our marriage was in terrible shape and I was very withdrawn. I didn't include any needs that I have like conversation, RC, admiration, etc. because I wasn't happy with the way he met any of those needs, and wanted to continue having them met by friends and family.

we are alone together 8-10 hours a day. she doesn't want to go out. she will make my meals but eat something else (our diets are different.) a 4 hour date would find me trying to get her to speak more than one-word answers for 4 hours. she has no outside interests, no female friends (she finds women in general emotional and illogical.) she loves me. I love her. She has no interest in anything I do, and she has no hobbies of her own. I'm looking for an "in", a way to engage her. Her opinion is "nothing's wrong...what do you need?" So she reaches out to meet my needs, but gives me nothing to identify hers...because, I'm not needed. She does sex because it makes me happy. She could care less. "Feels fine" she says, but not a need. Affection? Nope, not a need. Conversation? About what? We don't fight or argue. In the categories of need where she scored a "1", she also stated "don't care if you do or don't try to meet them, they just aren't that big of a deal."

She's not withdrawn. She's been this person for 25 years. I just thought I'd been doing it wrong all this time...men are generally wrong and suck at this stuff...that's what I thought.

I'm curious if there are others with spouses like this?

Just to be clear here, I didn't mean to suggest that you actually can't meet her EN'S, but that she may feel that you are not capable of doing so.

What if it honestly is the case? She isn't deceptive or cagey...she tells me everything, honestly to the bone. There's literally no opportunity for an affair. She's never where she isn't supposed to be. She works in a secure vault! We drive in and go home together every day. We drive 45 min each way every day without a radio or a conversation...not because we're angry, just nothing to say!
Family? All out of state. We have 3 granddaughters...we've seen 2 of them about 4 times total in the last 7 years...one we never met. We have 4 grown and married kids, one of our kids lives in town and our son works in the same building as she...and we only see them weekly in church, sitting in another row usually. We aren't mad or hateful, just respect our kids adult lives with privacy.

She would get on here right next to the keyboard and type "you're wrong...I love my husband and desire to please him in every way...but I don't need anything! Why should I have to?"

You say she has no hobbies or interests, hmmmm she must have some. What does she do at home around the house? I am sure she doesn't just sit in a dark room.

perhaps she believes that I can't possibly meet her ENs...but why, if we're in agreement that we'd like to improve our marriage, would she say sincerely that she had none?

If she had even one...wouldn't you think that in 25 years she might have reached a frustration level that would have presented itself in something besides a loving servant and devoted wife?

Why would she agree to want to work and improve the marriage if everything was already going great?

Would your wife come here to post herself?

she does laundry. dishes. cooks. cleans. reads books. goes to work. repeat.

in fact, she likes historical romance novels. skips the sex parts...boring and unnecessary for the story line. occasionally asks me if women I know are "really that stupid".

Cannot communicate with other women well. Doesn't understand them.

We read together. If I watch a movie, which I love to do, she'll sleep beside me. We love to take trips to Disneyworld...we own on-property time shares. We drive down (14 hours), stay a week. Eat, make love, hardly leave the room. Read a lot. Might speak a dozen words. Drive back.

I'm wondering what retirement might look like in 5 years.

I guess you need to clearly define "independent".
We're both capable of being completely independent, financially, together or alone. We don't need each other's money. I crave her time, but if I go on a hunting trip without her (or any activity she's not interested in) she doesn't care if I call her or not. She stays busy while I'm gone. She's there when I'm back. Like I never left. She doesn't "miss" me as I do her. I honestly think she could lock herself in the house for a month and not notice the time had passed.
Her mother trained her to "never rely on a man for anything...have your own career and money." She is strongly independent.
I am capable of doing almost anything short of surgery. So is she. We built a house together...not "had it built"...we drew the drawing, poured the cement, stood the walls, plumbing, electrical...everything. But it's easy to see, although we are in love with each other, I have nothing that she really needs...because she needs nothing.

I find it interesting that she enjoys reading historical romance novels, but is not interested in romance. That sounds off to me.

Maybe your wife doesn't want to admit that she has EN's because she would view this as a weakness, or would make her feel vulnerable.

What needs do you have that you feel are not being met by your wife?

we've been together as I type this, and discussing as the replies come in. Her response to "would she post" was "about what? What would I have to say that you haven't said?" Then she laughed at the idea of an affair...impossible in her work area. I've been trying to think of a moment where she could have even had a lurid phone call with anyone. We share a single flip-type cell phone that stays in the car (we don't text or Facebook, etc, and don't use half of our 400 monthly minutes.) It's not like she's driving around looking for stuff to do...
She did just mention she talks to her mom and dad once a month or so to see if they're still alive...

I think she's trying to understand romance. She's more interested in the history than the romance.

You may be close with the "weakness/vulnerable" aspects... she hates to be considered not in control of her emotions. She does not cry often. (3-4 times in 25 years?) She doesn't argue...she just shuts down until I'm done trying to make my point. When I realize its a one-sided discussion, I stop.


My top 5 ENs in order (NEED: evaluation of her meeting):

Affection (5:-1)
Recreational Comp (6:-2)
Intimate Conv (5:-2)
Sexual Fulfillment (6:1)
Honesty and Openness (3:2)

The sex thing was hard to answer. She rarely tells me "no", but when she's not into it, I kinda miss the point...which leads us to our typical discussion of "why do I (she) have to want to do it? Can't I just do it because you need it?"
Always complex...

oh, sometimes she DOES just sit in a dark room.
...but she sees there's always cleaning and chores to do... even when I hired a maid she cleaned before the lady got here.

Many years ago we went to a marriage seminar based on "love languages" at our church.
I went up to the couple to ask "OK, my wife is a servant. If, as you teach, we respond to our own love language the best... how does one serve a servant who does not wish to be served?"

The official response:
"That's really hard, honey. True servants are notorious for rejecting service. Good luck!"

...Thanks.

In case anyone is still curious as to why were both here, it's probably my fault. I love her, and I know she loves me, but there was never any real "romance" or dating. We just felt so comfortable together our marriage was a natural occurrence. We did it over lunch one day and went back to work.
I've always had the desire to have my mate desire and need me. She loves me, and that might have to be enough... but through two visits through Marriage Encounters and lots of other books and seminars, I've come to realize my wife is unique in her personality. She's my best friend and I hers. I just continue to hold out hope that there's a spark in there, and it may only be an LED.

I have the weakness/vulnerability issues myself. I need a good bit of "me" time and tend to feel crowded (or suffocated) easily.

This is a tough issue. I am (and have been) working on this for a while.

I try to just remember that I trust myself to be able to handle anything that comes my way, including the risk of being hurt, when I allow myself to be vulnerable.

I know she needs her space. She's a classic introvert and is a hard charger at work all day, so she comes home having spent all "her words". I'm a guy, I have hobbies, I know how to stay out of her way. I just wish for more. I have a dream of a life with someone who really needs and wants me, and wants to be showered with love, gifts, money, time, conversation, travel, experiences... I get the creeping sensation I'm in for a long and quiet 30 years or so on this couch.


Is it possible she has ENs that aren't on the list of 10? I know she really likes it when I finish a task I start...
{I'm more of a "I'll get there eventually" and she's a "what's your plan for completion?")

I think that would fall under DS category.

Most EN will fall under the categories Dr. Harley has mapped, sometimes they just are not obvious.

I remember thinking that admiration was silly and certainly NOT something I required. I was thinking in terms of needing people to fall all over with praise, or blowing my own horn etc. I discovered that it is actually a top need of mine because I hate to be criticized (and tend to believe I am always right haha)