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#2745140 07/24/13 03:57 PM
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Have you guys seen this video? http://gawker.com/temper-tantrum-wife-speaks-out-claims-husband-had-be-896965566

I thought he was a bully right off...the laughing at her, the superiority he displayed, his self-importance. I'm working on a radio show now, and the crew was of the opinion that the wife was just a spoiled brat, but ANYONE who has been around a psychopathic-leaning spouse can see the crazy-making. So far, seems the wife is filing, but the husband claims to have moved out.

*waves to the MB crew, my faves even when I'm away, God bless you folks, you blessed me, so thankful for you*


Marriage is the triumph of imagination over intelligence. Second marriage is the triumph of hope over experience.
(Oscar Wilde)
CWMI #2745144 07/24/13 04:13 PM
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I thought of posting a link to the video yesterday, but did not want to bring forward this sad case (in whatever form) without background story support.

You have no such compunction?

So on one hand, we have video evidence of wifey acting violently psychotic, and offsetting that we have...her self-serving, damage-controlling, otherwise-unsupported claims? Given that balance, I side with your radio crew.

By the way, how do you feel about her license being suspended (which is the proximate cause of her relying on hubby for transport) for DUI?

NeverGuessed #2745147 07/24/13 04:42 PM
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Sorry. The husband said he made the video to refute her claims that he was a bad guy. That's in the video. He said he had no regrets about putting the video online, and reportedly moved out.

Why couldn't he do that without laughing at his wife in a viral video? Yeah, she's bonkers, but as someone who has thrown a phone in the toilet because my husband treated it as more precious than me and insisted that it take precedence over me at all times regardless of plans, I *get* her tantrum, as I was bonkers, too, when dealing with that kind of crap. Tires rotated? Time with wife? I highly HIGHLY doubt that this was the first time (or fiftieth--they were married a year and a half) that this husband ran his own agenda without regard for his wife or POJA.

We get fed up with that, and some of us don't yet know about Plan B. Making a video is fine for counseling or court, but making one without your spouse knowing and then posting it online is a d**k move, and more damaging to a human soul than her hissy fit. It's a betrayal.


Marriage is the triumph of imagination over intelligence. Second marriage is the triumph of hope over experience.
(Oscar Wilde)
CWMI #2745151 07/24/13 04:48 PM
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As far as her interlock, I think her husband should either help her or leave her. Mocking her does what, exactly?

ETA: You said license suspended, and I said interlock. They are different things. When a license is suspended, you are not supposed to drive. When you have an interlock on your car, you have to blow into it in order to start it, and she said in the video that she had an interlock. You don't get an interlock unless you have some form of license. Very likely, she had a work/home permit to go with the interlock. Thing is, the folks at the shop ALSO have to blow in it to start it, and she probably wasn't licensed to drive anywhere but work/home. I don't know.


Marriage is the triumph of imagination over intelligence. Second marriage is the triumph of hope over experience.
(Oscar Wilde)
CWMI #2745162 07/24/13 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by CWMI
So far, seems the wife is filing, but the husband claims to have moved out.

He follows up the reason that he moved out:

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Didn�t promise anything at all. In fact, I had worked 60 hours that week and told her all week that saturday was my day to get stuff done around the house. But as usual she threw a fit about it. She has broken doors off the jambs at our house�That was the last day I lived in our house. I have moved out and filed a restraining order against her.

It doesn't surprise me that she has broken things in the house. She is completely out of control in this video and seems to think there is justification for that type of behavior (when there is not, she is responsible for controlling her own AOs, period.)



Ddays 2007 and 2011
Plan B 6/21/11
Divorced July 2012
2 kids
How to Plan B Correctly
Parallel Parenting in Plan B
SusieQ #2745166 07/24/13 05:57 PM
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From the private forum regarding AOs:

Originally Posted by Dr. Harley
I regard angry outbursts as the worst Love Buster. That's because it's not only physically and emotionally dangerous to the other spouse, but it completely eliminates the possibility of marital problem solving. For most couples we try to help, if they can't stop their angry outbursts, nothing else works. They can't follow the Policy of Joint Agreement and they can't follow the Policy of Undivided Attention. Without those two rules in place, there's no hope for a satisfying marriage.

So you must do everything in your power to stop all angry outbursts completely. Attend anger management training if you can't seem to follow the steps in Love Busters. When angry outbursts have been completely eliminated (along with disrespectful judgments), you are in a position to tackle just about anything that comes your way.

In some cases, I've recommended separation when one spouse doesn't take their angry outbursts seriously. For those who have not experienced physical abuse, they often feel that separation is too extreme. But I know for a fact as a clinical psychologist that angry outbursts are a form of temporary insanity, and most people who have angry outbursts cannot control what they do. In some cases, the very first angry outburst that became physical resulted in permanently injured or even death. The angry spouse has no idea that they would hurt their spouse so badly until it had already happened. Then they are grief-stricken at what took place. Angry outbursts must be completely eliminated in marriage, or the marriage is too dangerous to continue.

Of course, there are far less serious problems with an angry outburst that causes the loss of love in marriage. But even if that's all it was, a loss of love, it would be worth taking so seriously that a separation would not seem extreme.




Ddays 2007 and 2011
Plan B 6/21/11
Divorced July 2012
2 kids
How to Plan B Correctly
Parallel Parenting in Plan B
CWMI #2745212 07/24/13 07:31 PM
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Originally Posted by CWMI
Sorry. The husband said he made the video to refute her claims that he was a bad guy. That's in the video. He said he had no regrets about putting the video online, and reportedly moved out.

They are both bad guys. He is disrespectful. And neglectful in the extreme (60 hour work week? and on his only day off his priority is chores instead of his wife?) She is angry and violent.

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Making a video is fine for counseling or court, but making one without your spouse knowing and then posting it online is a d**k move, and more damaging to a human soul than her hissy fit. It's a betrayal.

I have heard some waywards say the exact same thing about exposing an affair. Almost down to the word. Betrayal, human soul, etc.

The bottom line is that no matter what he did, he does not deserve that kind of abuse, and he does have the right to go tell people and seek help and support. He has the right to ask people what they think about this nastiness and hear people confirm that, yes, it is nastiness. Moreover, as violently as she was raging, I think he probably should've called the police.

Dr. Harley has often said, regarding angry outbursts, that it would be great if we all had a recorder on us all the time, 24/7. Those of us who have angry outbursts would be amazed to see ourselves. It's a great way to understand that an angry outburst is temporary insanity.

Exposure is therapeutic.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
markos #2745256 07/24/13 10:31 PM
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It's not like the guy posted it online KNOWING it would go viral.

Her temper can never be justified. The video does it's job by destroying any and all credibility she may have to say otherwise. She brought this upon herself and would be better served taking full responsibility and apologizing.


A reminder to most but here's Dr. Harley's newsletter regarding over emotionality.

Originally Posted by Dr. Harley
How to Negotiate When You Are an Emotional Person

Which of the following best describes the way you and your spouse handle a conflict?

You calmly and respectfully discuss the conflict until you find a mutually agreeable resolution.
The one who screams the loudest wins the argument.

If you and your spouse are closer to the screaming type, you've probably noticed that your conflicts are piling up. Instead of resolving them, your fights are adding new ones to the pile.

You've tried to avoid fighting because you know that it doesn't really solve anything. But you get so upset by the way your spouse treats you, or ignores you, that you can't help yourself. Besides, even if you wanted to solve your problems calmly and respectfully, you wouldn't have a negotiating partner. Your spouse only takes you seriously when you're screaming. Otherwise your problems are swept under the rug and never discussed. Does that describe your situation?

It's a vicious circle. The problems you face in your marriage upset you terribly. They can't wait for negotiation. They must be solved now. And yet, the tactics you use to get the job done in a timely manner -- demands, disrespect, and anger -- drive your spouse away from you. Instead of seeing the urgency of your problems, your spouse comes to believe that nothing you discuss can be resolved rationally. Instead of addressing your problems when you're both calm and rational, your spouse ignores them until you become so upset that he or she can't ignore them any longer.

The primary advantage to being emotional in marriage is that problems are rarely ignored. They keep getting addressed during nasty fights. But the primary disadvantage is that the problems are rarely solved. So how can an emotional person every hope to have a marriage that works. How can such a person be happily married when they can't seem to solve any of their problems?

Well I have good news. Emotional people can solve their marital problems. Here's how it's done.

Begin with the assumption that marital problems can be solved only when spouses discuss their problems calmly and rationally, looking for solutions that they can both accept. Also assume that they will not be solved by screaming. Finally, assume that you, and you only can control your emotional reactions - no one else can do it for you. These assumptions lead to the conclusion that your emotional reactions are self-defeating when you face a marital problem. You hurt your own cause by letting yourself get so upset that you're unable to find a solution to your problem.

Let's stop here to think this through for a moment. If you don't agree with these three assumptions and its conclusion, you're not ready for my plan. Unless you take full responsibility for your emotional reactions, and don't blame them on anyone else, you will not be able to develop the right frame of mind to tackle the conflicts that are common in marriage.

But if you accept these assumptions and their conclusion, your first step toward becoming an expert marital problem-solver will be to learn to be calm in the midst of frustration. That will take plenty of practice.

So it all begins with emotional control when you face a conflict. If marital problems upset you, you'll never be able to resolve them the right way.

But can an emotionally reactive person actually learn to control his or her reactions? Of course they can! I've witnessed thousands of highly emotional people learn how to relax in the face of adversity.

An angry outburst is only one of many emotional reactions to frustration, and I've not only helped train others to completely eliminate them, but I've also learned how to eliminate them myself. When I was young, I had a very bad temper, as did most of the other members of my family. But when I came to realize that my anger was self-defeating, and that no one made me lose my temper, I set out to eliminate it completely. In spite of some very frustrating experiences I've had in life, I have not lost my temper in over 50 years.

If you're familiar with the procedure I recommend to overcome angry outbursts, you'll see that the way to overcome any emotional reaction is very similar. It begins with the realization that no one makes you react emotionally. Whether it's an angry outburst or any other intense emotional reaction, it's yours and you are completely responsible for it. Your spouse can't control your emotional reactions. Only you can control them.

Most intense emotional reactions are neurologically similar. An angry outburst and a panic attack have many of the same features-and the way to overcome them is essentially the same.

When faced with a threat, we react with fight or flight. Either we stand up to the threat and defeat it, or we run for cover. If you fight, you'll have an angry reaction, and if you flee, you'll have an anxiety reaction. But in either case, it's the adrenaline in your system that magnifies the reaction.

So the best way to control an angry outburst, or a panic attack, is to reduce the adrenaline in your bloodstream. While there are many dietary and medical ways to help achieve that objective, or prevent it from happening in the first place, one of the simplest approaches to control your emotional reactions is to learn to relax, and to be able to do it almost instantly. Effective relaxation techniques can be learned within a few days if they are practiced often enough. And if they are practiced while thinking about some of your most frustrating situations, you prepare yourself for effective negotiation.

Just as you might prepare for a marathon, by training your body to run ever-longer distances, you can train your brain to approach frustrating situations with intelligence rather than emotion. Every frustrating situation you find yourself in is a training opportunity. By relaxing instead of attacking (or fleeing), you create an opportunity to approach the situation with thoughtfulness.

While most of us know if we're tense or relaxed, some people find it helpful to use some form of biofeedback to help them quantify their efforts. A simple galvanic response meter can do the trick and they can be purchased on Amazon for between $50 and $100. A CD often accompanies the meter that teaches relaxation techniques. The GSR2 Biofeedback Relaxation System with CD by Bio-Medical Instruments, Inc. is about $75.

The purpose of relaxation training using a biofeedback meter is to learn to relax under conditions of high stress. At first, you simply learn to raise and lower the meter by changing your thoughts. Think of an unpleasant stressful situation, and the meter rises; think of a pleasant non-stressful situation, and the meter lowers. After you can manipulate the meter by simply thinking stressful and non-stressful thoughts, your next challenge is to keep the meter low even when thinking about a stressful situation. You do that by deliberately relaxing every muscle in your body, thereby flushing out all of the adrenaline. With practice, your relaxation can be demonstrated on the biofeedback meter in a matter of seconds.

When you have mastered relaxation while alone, the next challenge is to keep the biofeedback meter low when you discuss a problem with your spouse. At first, you may think that all of your training doesn't work when applied to real-life situations. But with some practice, you will be just as successful with your spouse present as you were while alone.

By keeping the biofeedback meter low, you are controlling your emotional reactions, giving your brain a chance to think of real solutions to your problems. When you become emotional, your creative ability is seriously downgraded, leaving you with few ideas that are worth considering.

If both you and your spouse can guarantee that your discussion will not lead to an emotional outburst, you will not only be far more creative and successful in finding solutions, but you will be more likely to raise problems with each other. Joyce and I tackle conflicts as they arise, and at least one will arise just about every hour we're together. Obviously, if we did not handle our conflicts the right way, our lives would be filled with arguments. Or we would not be dealing with them at all.

By controlling our emotional reactions, Joyce and I follow the first guideline for successful negotiation in marriage: to make the discussion safe and enjoyable. You are to avoid making any demands, avoid showing any disrespect, and avoid becoming angry. In other words, you're to avoid becoming emotional.

If you can't control your emotional reaction, you can't follow the second guideline: understanding the conflict and its possible resolutions from each others perspectives with profound respect for each other -- something terribly missing when spouses become emotional.

The third guideline, brainstorming solutions with the goal of making both spouses happy with the outcome, is impossible to follow without the second guideline in place.

And finally, the fourth guideline, selecting a resolution that makes both spouses happy, can't be followed if the third guideline isn't followed.

So it all comes down to knowing how to control your emotional reactions. If you can learn how to relax, keeping your emotional reactions at bay while discussing marital conflict, you'll have a much easier time resolving your conflicts. But if you can't control them, your problems will remain unsolved. It's that simple.

If you take my challenge to learn how to gain emotional control in helping you solve your marital problems, let me know about your effort, and any problems you may encounter along the way. Write to Joyce and me through the Marriage Builders radio program, mbradio@marriagebuilders.com, and we will help guide you through the process.


FBH(me)-51 FWW-49 (MrsWondering)
DD19 DS 22 Dday-2005-Recovered

"agree to disagree" = Used when one wants to reject the objective reality of the situation and hopefully replace it with their own.
MrWondering #2745260 07/24/13 10:43 PM
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I find this discussion interesting. But from an MB standpoint it's pretty open and shut. No AO, ever. Period.

kerala #2745284 07/25/13 12:12 AM
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Markos covered it pretty clearly; the husband's behavior was the wrong thing to do while she was having an AO. And, if that is how he behaves while she is doing that, he probably behaves that way all the time.

It was rather unsafe for him to be on the road driving with someone in that emotional condition as well... Dude, get your wife a smoke and some chill time.


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
HoldHerHand #2745290 07/25/13 12:29 AM
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Originally Posted by HoldHerHand
Markos covered it pretty clearly; the husband's behavior was the wrong thing to do while she was having an AO. And, if that is how he behaves while she is doing that, he probably behaves that way all the time.

It was rather unsafe for him to be on the road driving with someone in that emotional condition as well... Dude, get your wife a smoke and some chill time.
HHH will you look in on the 101 poster with the wife who is dx BPD, please?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



BrainHurts #2745302 07/25/13 01:18 AM
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I got the impression that she would tell her friends how bad she was. He gave her a taste of her own medicine and stepped it up a bit.

Neither one wins any awards for MB approved behavior.

Enlightened_Ex #2745381 07/25/13 12:21 PM
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What I meant to say was she would tell her friends how bad he was.

Enlightened_Ex #2745394 07/25/13 01:11 PM
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EE, could it then be assumed that these "friends" would uncritically accept her version, nod sagely, and recite, "As always, it is the husband's fault! Poor thing!" Seems like there is a lot of that in today's culture, to the detriment of the preferable "equality" in marital relations.

I actually salute the video-recording hubby in his MB-consistency:

- He engaged in no AOs.
- He did not "educate". ("Your behavior is immature and, well, stupid!")
- He evidently maintained PORH. ("I believe having the planned work done on my truck precludes driving to the lake.")

In truth, POJA was NOT served by this couple, but rationally negotiating with a screaming, kicking banshee would stump most spouses.

NeverGuessed #2745405 07/25/13 01:49 PM
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It's easier to "behave" when you know you are on camera.

We only have an unfiltered view of her. It's not unreasonable to think that he could be "self editing" as he knows about the recording.

Like I said, no candidates for MB'er of the year in that clip.

NeverGuessed #2745450 07/25/13 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by NeverGuessed
I actually salute the video-recording hubby in his MB-consistency:

- He engaged in no AOs.
- He did not "educate". ("Your behavior is immature and, well, stupid!")
- He evidently maintained PORH. ("I believe having the planned work done on my truck precludes driving to the lake.")

In truth, POJA was NOT served by this couple, but rationally negotiating with a screaming, kicking banshee would stump most spouses.

Yeah, you can't negotiate with someone flipping out like that. But he *did* educate: he told her, on the video, that she was acting like an 11-year-old and that he was being responsible.

If mocking and acting superior are MB-sanctioned ways to behave, that's news to me! smile





Marriage is the triumph of imagination over intelligence. Second marriage is the triumph of hope over experience.
(Oscar Wilde)
CWMI #2745455 07/25/13 05:17 PM
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Where I think this guy failed was in posting ONE video of her behavior if, as he maintains, this was her predictable reaction to what would have to be classified as a minor disappointment. (What? The lake is going to disappear if they don't go TODAY?)

We can infer that this was predictable based on his prepared ability to record it. However, two, three, four, five instances of her "wigging out", giving her no "spin" opportunity, might have been the "cold water" that may have been enough to convince her that she needed SERIOUS help!

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Hi there CWMI! Long time no see.....how are you? smile

tismeagain #2745786 07/27/13 07:21 AM
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Hi cwmi! That video got my attention, too. I remember those days. My AOs weren't as obvious or whatever but my internal self-talk was awful "My life is run by idiots!" and left me depressed. I never killed a cell phone but I can totally see how that stuff happens. My low point was the day I unplugged the cable from the back of the TV because somehow I thought that was the reason we couldn't get along.

I really like that article Mr. W. posted. Once the AOer stops the AOs, it gets a lot more obvious whether the couple has what it takes to negotiate fairly and successfully together on their own or whether they need more help and support. Back in the day, we didn't have that article, but we had a pretty good thread about how folks were working to disengage from the passive-agressive dance.

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=621401


Me 40, OD 18 and YD 13
Married 15 years, Divorced 10/2010
NewEveryDay #2748951 08/13/13 09:51 AM
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Are AOs the only option when you don't know any MB tactics and your marriage is miserable?

Well, no. Even without any MB education at all, you still know you are HURTING someone when you scream and rant and rave.

I was a world class AO-er.

Yet the minute I decided to stop, I just stopped. Proving I was in the driving seat all along.

There's an article were Dr Harley says some spouses anger causes some low level pain, while others are more like nuclear missiles. I had no problem recognising myself in latter category.

I am quite eloquent and I have a temper so I could make a very effective weapon out of deeply cutting words delivered in high fury. My spouse would be deeply hurt and do almost anything to avoid it.

I knew this. Sure I didn't think about it that deeply, but that's only because I didn't want to.

I had a powerful weapon which could force my spouse to hop to my tune. Job done.

Did it matter that he was gaslighting me and cheating me and purposefully provoking my AOs?

No. On my side of things, I KNEW what I was doing and I have to own that.

Exposure via an online video would have done me the world of good too, if MB had not.




What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.


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