Oh, man, knowing what I know now, I would have been much more respectful in my complaints. I would have stuck to the worksheets. I would have been much more patient, and much more willing to let go and not freak out when Prisca did not appear to immediately accept my complaints and be willing to address them. She was pretty nasty at times (at one point even letting my worksheet fall to the ground when I tried to hand it to her).

The biggest complaint was disrespect. Independent behavior was also a big thing. EPs tended to be a problem very early on, but if you review our history, you find that we were here for a year before the emotional affair even happened, so in that respect we don't exactly fit the normal timeline.

Oh, man, knowing what I know now, I would have been much more respectful in my complaints. I would have stuck to the worksheets. I would have been much more patient, and much more willing to let go and not freak out when Prisca did not appear to immediately accept my complaints and be willing to address them. She was pretty nasty at times (at one point even letting my worksheet fall to the ground when I tried to hand it to her).

The biggest complaint was disrespect. Independent behavior was also a big thing. EPs tended to be a problem very early on, but if you review our history, you find that we were here for a year before the emotional affair even happened, so in that respect we don't exactly fit the normal timeline.

I get the impression that when she is thinking rationally and unemotionally, mrs_cen very much wants to see most or all of the Marriage Builders recommendations put into practice. But because she is impulsive, she often is thinking only emotionally and only about the moment instead of the effects her actions are going to have on her husband.

Marriage Builders is a training program to fix that!

Oh, and regarding RNR's and mrs_cen's posts, one of the things we have noticed is that both of them are prone to not report everything that the other would report. Most people are like that to some extent, but for this couple it really pays to remember that you are usually not hearing all of the story.

Surely you coach was coaching you based on your specific situation.

Do you think there should be a difference in how complaints are handled?

What I mean is...there is a difference in someone having a 1-2 mo EA vs. a situation like mine, 9mo EA/PA with a 9mo FR. We are all wired differently on how we react to trauma.

ie..the severity and nature of the crime. Our legal system has a much different procedure of a misdemeanor vs. a Class A Felony.


I think I would look at my situation with my FWW different if the nature of the crime would have been 'less severe'. Not downplaying anyone else's experience..just speaking for myself.

However you slice it up, she is LB'ing all over the place. He is supposed to just complain and drop it? She knows she can do whatever the heck she wants to do with no ramifications. She simply doesn't care.

RNR, why don't you guys consider Dr. Harley's online program, where one of his coaches will be assigned to you to help the two of you start following the Marriage Builders principles? Kim was assigned to us and was fantastic (and fantastically patient); Dr. Harley's other coach is Sandy and I have heard rave reviews about her as well. You also get access to Dr. Harley himself on his private board on this forum.

Since these things keep happening, one might conclude that you need to try professional help to get your message through.

To summarize your post:

mrs_cen violates the POJA (impulse problem - bad)
RNR objects (complaint - good!!)
mrs_cen explodes (love buster - angry outburst - bad)
issue dropped (GOOD - FIGHT STOPPED!!! THIS IS CORRECT)
At this point, mrs_cen has the choice to start acting on RNR's complaints, getting reinforcement each time that she needs to start considering RNR's feelings in her decisions or continuing to act as a spoiled, self-entitled adolescent (ME superseding WE in every action), indefinitely, becasue she doesn't give a goddamn about his feelings!

...if your spouse breaks the MB rules, don't respond by breaking the MB rules...

Well said, and true if applied universally.

So let's review the "Rule" of Just Compensation, shall we? If RNR is not the recipient of JC, according to MB teachings, he is selling himself short on his agreeing to attempt reconciliation, right?

Like it or not, as written ON THIS SITE the concept of Just Compensation is a fair exchange of desirables by the ruptured spouses. (WW: "Please don't discard me like the unfaithful spouse I've been." BH: "Okay, but I want something in return.")

JC is a stool of three legs. Remove any one, and you fall on your....assumed recovery. Let's discuss this case using the facts and events as they have occurred, okay?

1 - VERIFIABLY GIVE UP THE AP VIA (most usually) A NO-CONTACT LETTER! Well, THAT sure as HELL did not happen, did it?

2 - ESTABLISH EP'S IN CONCERT WITH THE EXPECTATIONS OF THE BS! It would seem that establishing them was no problem; it was this cases's WW's adherence to them that has been laughable!

3 - THE WS WILL ENDEAVOR TO REBUILD A BETTER (MB-grounded) MARITAL RELATIONSHIP! It would seem Mrs Cen has gone 0-for-3 in her JC performance.

Net/net: If MB rules stated that agreeing to attempted reconciliation was predicated on the receiving of JC, then NOT receiving JC would suggest that, following the MB rules, the proper course would be acknowledging that reconciliation is not to be pursued.

Q.E.D.

For the most part you guys are right. I told my wife tonight that she can either show me that she is in this by providing me with JC and come into this with me full force or she can make other preparations. I can no longer be the glue that holds this together, she needs to come into this with me or it will never work. I have finally woken up to this reality. I do not want my marriage to end but prolonging this when she does not want this is just insane on my part. She can show me her true colours now, I'm tired of being the only one jumping through hoops while she says she will but never follows through.

RNR2013:

I didn't get your email for some reason. Email Joyce at mbradio@marriagebuilders.com and let her know what's been going on with both of you lately. We'd love to have you both on the radio again, but if either of you are reluctant, we would be happy to help you through email.

Best wishes,
Dr. Harley

Today everything is gone all to hell again. My W states that our financial troubles are my fault because I quit the rigs. I quit for her and our marriage! I may be returning soon.

Once an abusive reaction is made, unless a couple does something to stop it, the "process" of abuse begins.ﾠ The first benign form of abuse triggers a more hurtful response by the other spouse.ﾠ That, in turn, leads to an even more negative reaction.ﾠ As the reactions of each spouse move further and further up the abuse continuum, eventually a response is triggered that we would all agree is abuse.ﾠ But by then it's too late.ﾠ Both spouses are in the thick of battle and fighting to the death.

That's why I have chosen to call each hurtful event in the escalating sequence, "abuse."ﾠ It seems to work for those couples who struggle with the problem.ﾠ If they see abuse as a process that begins with more benign forms of disrespect and demands, they can learn to cut it off before it becomes painfully destructive.ﾠ When one spouse decides not to react to abuse with abuse, the process usually comes to an end.ﾠ But the best outcome is for both spouses to see it coming and both agree to stop the process.ﾠ Such a couple has learned to valuable lesson of avoiding fights and arguments.ﾠ In the place of those ineffective problem-solving strategies, they can learn to solve problems in a way that increases their love for each other -- instead of ruining their love for each other.

But even though she made an abusive remark, you can end the cycle of abuse before it begins if you don't accelerate negativity (that means, matching her abuse with abuse of your own). What you should do is ignore the abuse on her side, and in your own mind re-translate what she said to be "I would prefer it if you would dry the dishes this way, instead of the way you are drying them."

However, if you are offended by the comment she made, and most people are offended by abuse, then you will be very tempted to come back with, "fine, dry them yourself next time." That is abusive because it's a demand (you are telling her what to do). Or you might be tempted to say, "you don't dry them any better that I do." That's abusive because it's disrespectful (you are judging her dish washing behavior). Or you might be tempted to let her have it with, "What a stupid thing to say -- you sure are full of stupid comments today." That's an angry outburst because what you say is intended to punish her for the comment she made to you. As soon as you respond to your wife's abusive comment with an abusive comment of your own, you have created a cycle of abuse where you are both abusing each other.

Your wife might then respond to your abuse with more abuse. It may be a selfish demand, it may be a disrespectful judgment, or it may be an angry outburst. That will escalate negativity even more. Then you respond with more abuse, she responds again, and on and on. Every argument is abusive, and whenever you argue or fight, think to yourself, "we are being abusive to each other. I must somehow stop this cycle of abuse."

When you argue, it will be easy to see how the other person is being abusive, but it's very difficult to see how you are being abusive. However, if you actually argue with your wife, you are being just as abusive as she. You may not be able to stop your wife's abusive behavior, because only she can do that, but you can stop your abusive behavior, and that will end all of your arguments and fights. It doesn't mean you will stop talking to each other, it simply means you will not respond to her abuse with your own abuse.

Quite frankly, if only one of you avoids abuse -- you, for example -- it will make it much easier for the other to avoid it.