Continuing that thought...

Feelings lie...

That's where, I think NG is misguiding you. He's hammering on the FEELINGS of justice and compensation that every BH endures. These are FEELINGS. They aren't part of the MB process.

You AND your wife do MB because you both want a better marriage. There is a payoff for both of you. At her core, She doesn't do MB as compensation. The MB process promises both of you a better marriage if you stick to it for a year. The end result should be you BOTH fall in love with one another again. At that point, once she loves you again...she'll be better able to look back and see with new loving sympathetic eyes what she did to you and her empathy can and will be expressed with, perhaps, extra-ordinary just compensation. It was a great reward to me when my wife, once again, looked upon me with the same loving expression she had from when we were first dating and then married. It was an easy expression to recognize and it'd been gone for a long time.

These are just some of my own thoughts (MB in spirit but I don't know how precise they are when it comes to just compensation) ...you are, of course, free to ask ME not to post on your thread anymore too. I'm not around near as much as NG and I don't want to scare him off your thread.

Mr. W

This is very good advice, RNR.
I heard Dr. Harley say the other day that the most important part of Plan A is "No Lovebusters." And this is what you really need to be concentrating on right now. Keep calm and don't lovebust, even if she slips up and makes a mistake. Keep calm. Don't lovebust.

Yup...you said yourself..."she's trying"

Believe it. She's trying. If she's really not...that will come to fruition all on it's own.

Try to focus on whether YOU are trying and what she does and doesn't do becomes irrelevant.

Mr W

Trying huh?

My W tells me she's trying all the time. For years I�ve posted here and posted her statements over and over again. Some wise posters told me the same thing over and over again � there�s trying and then there�s doing.

Ugh I cringe every time I hear her say it because I know it means nothing will change.

It means she wants it to change and is going to keep putting forth effort to try to make it change. Unfortunately she will be unsuccessful. These issues do get in the way from time to time. I appease her as much as I can but they affect our R. I have pushed and I will continue to push for her to improve her quality of life by seeking professional help for these issues. Trying isn�t cutting it.

RNR, Dr Harley asked your W to get some help for her impulse control. This isn't something she's going to be able to fix herself. She�ll try and try and try and you�ll see the same, the same, and the same. I think her seeking help for this is going to be extremely helpful to your M. I would list it as one of the conditions of your recovery.

Did you listen to the radio clip that BH posted?

I also think you two need a referee. Someone that helps each of you keep things in proper focus so that you don�t continue to LB each other at every turn. You two seem to set each other off and neither brings a behavior to a situation that leads to resolution. Instead it�s finger pointing on how the other person is to blame for all your struggles.

You need help learning how to resolve your differences. Will you two get some help?

Can you see all the DJ's that have found their way into what you posted?

Maybe,

But I'm not going to distract this thread by discussing it.

Point being RNR and Mrs_Cen need some help. I'm encouraged that they're making efforts to educate themselves on Dr Harley's principles.

I'm of the opinion they'll need more than simple reading to change the dynamic of their relationship. Someone to keep them moving in the right direction.

Dr Harley offered his help. I suggest they take him up on the offer.

That is a good thing, and most of what you said is just fine. But the biggest problem for this couple is controlling their LBs and avoiding fighting. Validating DJs that you believe you have in common with them doesn't accomplish this, rather it encourages more DJs and more LBs. They need to put more effort into controlling the LBs, including DJs. Perhaps you do, too.

A few years back me and my wife gave a car to a friend of her sisters. Turns out it was him. I really feel like garbage now, never before have I felt more like givin up on this whole thing as I do right now actually.

RNR - Did you write down a list of all of your Q's, sit her down and get all of them answered?

If no, do it now. Be done with it. If yes, you HAVE to start living in today. I have had to learn this lesson the hard way. Trust me.

Every time you bring up the past and new information is revealed, you are going to live this all over again. It is painful every time. Every time.

You know the past is ugly. Right? I could choose to continually dig into my FWW's past for nuances and more specifics but I really don't care now. I know enough..not sure I could handle more!

Now, I really don't even like talking about what happened last month. I am focusing so much on Today and Tomorrow.

This has been extraordinarily helpful. You gotta stay in the 'now'. This plus focusing on UA time.

The only thing that you get out of talking about the past = more pain.

How can you stay in the 'now'?

Have you read up on Friends and Enemies of Good Conversation?

Yeah it hurt but I have noticed something has changed. It really doesn't bother me that much right now! I'm going to take this as a good thing for the time being. The NC letter that was never delivered or picked up is sitting on the front seat of my truck right now. I've decided I'm not giving another cent to this so I am not going to bother sending it. My WW reprinted it this weekend to resend it to the same address where the first was never picked up so I figure there's no point now, it won't happen. I'm not giving another nine bucks to this.

RNR- Mrs. Cen received 40+ pages over several months of wonderful posts of what she could be doing to help restore the M.

Dr. Harley gave her specific suggestions himself as to what he thought would make the most difference. In fact, I can't find where she actually had taken action to find help for her impulse control. Did I miss something?

It was mostly rejected. Some of us, including myself, said we did not see signs that she was actually serious about doing her part to help R your M.

Now, it sounds like you might think she isn't doing her part. I can tell you that at least in my experience, I have had moments in which my feelings will sway from Optimism to Despair and everything in between.

Feel bad for you...I know you wanted this to work out. Maybe it still will. Either way, I know this must be very hard on you...she has continued to disappoint you at every turn.

I was shocked yesterday that at over 3 months of having been exposed to MB, she didn't even KNOW what Just Compensation was, which is STEP 1 of the program!...this was a sign that indeed she was not taking MB seriously. Too bad...it works.



ETA: no one can force her to do anything. Maybe one day when she actually hits rock bottom, the true reality of the pain she has caused you is realized and she finds some Humility and Empathy for you...you two can give this a real try. Unfortunately, that day may never come or if it does, be too late.

I wouldn't be shocked - there are many many people who have been here for years and still don't know what Just Compensation is. Some people are just here to punish waywards, which isn't Just Compensation at all.

yeah, but that this is exactly why I can understand his frustrations in that she isn't doing all she can do!

How hard is it to spend 45 minutes reading up on the basic concepts for recovery on this site to learn the first steps? Just Compensation is spelled out clearly. Pretty easy if you are motivated at all.

What has she done to help curb her impulse control? I don't see one single shred of evidence (I hope I missed it somewhere!) that she is doing anything to help herself which was Dr. Harley's main advice for her!

She is not serious. Proof positive. I don't blame him.

Also, the NC letter was never taken serious! Another strike.

I�m sorry you feel that way. It is certainly within your right to call it quits if you feel you cannot get over what she did to your M.

I am still a little confused about you and her. I read both of your threads and it seems you two are never of the same mindset nor are seeing the picture the same way. I�ll read one thread and think things are moving forward and then read the next and the sky is falling.

You two are lost. Clueless on how to truly save this M. Both stuck in your own world of hurts. Neither of you can get yourself out of your old poor marital patterns.

I am going to continue to keep saying this over and over. You need help. A plan, a referee, a coach. Neither one of you knows how to salvage this M. You both have some poor behaviors that need to be fixed (regardless of WHO you are married to). The two of you are making efforts by trying to follow this program but you�re trying to do it by yourselves � and you both just continue to bring forward the same old poor marital behaviors. I don�t see that changing for you without some outside assistance.

Your latest comment about her not understanding what JC really means and that she should know and your statement of using that as reasons why this M isn�t going to work. That�s just your gut reaction to your anger. There is nothing truthful in that statement. JC comes from you. You define what it is and ask her to follow it. She doesn�t know what it is then you explain it to her over and over again! You hold her accountable. Work with her to find solutions that make you both enthusiastic. It is a never ending task because a M is work. Harder at first when you don�t know how to do it but easier as times goes on.

You can save this M. Your W, despite her inability to make you see she really wants to recover this M, I believe wants to see it recover. Any situation is solvable if both parties are interested in making it work and are willing to do the work. You just need a clear defined path and help in recognizing your poor behaviors and changing them to something good.

We here can all testify to the benefit and success of this program. We aren�t just making assumptions. We�ve all experienced it firsthand. It�s time to step up and truly follow the program. Sign up for some outside assistance.

The problem is he is tasked with keeping her accountable and does a poor job. He lets her off when it comes to JC tasks. Like the smartphones, etc.

There is no doubt she has a lot to fix in herself. But that doesn�t mean he should give up just because she�s floundering. She isn�t intentionally trying to destroy this M. She just hasn�t learned how to fix what gets in their way.

There is plenty of blame to pass around for both of these parties. The problem is that citing blame, creating commitment tests, etc - these are all examples of allowing emotions to drive the recovery bus. MB is all about using your intellect to override your emotions. Your emotions will make you do all the wrong things. Your intellect will bring you to rational plans of action that can really work.

The present situation where this couple comes to the forum with "he said - she said" accusations, while wanting the forum to act as fight referees, is doomed to failure. It doesn't matter who is right or wrong anymore. What is important is to stop fighting and to start dealing with these situations with their intellect and not with their emotions.

I couldn't agree more. If this couple can learn to negotiate and stop fighting, I know they can make it though R. They have a lot to fight for to save this M.


I guess the rub comes in when (as has been posted through RNR's eyes) the Action and Attitude isn't what is acceptable for him to continue to R this M.

Surely we don't have all the information as to the day to day dynamics of what is going on behind the scenes. All we can go off of is what has been posted.

Not tying to destroy the M? An A is the Ultimate Betrayal and she clearly intended to destroy their M. Wouldn't you say? The question is IF that attitude has changed or not.

Actions speak louder than words.


Very true on all other points. In my personal experience, one of the most important aspects to continue R with my FWW from day one has been her heart attitude. We both know that each of us WANT a great M together and are willing to DO the things to get there even though we still struggle at times the Willingness is there.

I have never expected perfection from her or myself but what has kept us going is that we both know that we are doing our best in working the MB program. In the end, that is all we can do. I know that Clearmind is doing her best. I know I am. Will we both make mistakes? Absolutely. It takes a long time and a lot of practice to get all the MB concepts perfected. Years.

Based on what Mrs. Cen has posted I don't see this.

RNR - Do you have this same thought process? Do you think her heart is in the right place and she is doing her best?