Just so we can all deal with the same history of actions, permit me to maintain a current log.....

**EDIT**

WW does something (wastes $500 in casino). You object; she explodes. Issue gets dropped.

WW does something (refuses to drop i-phone). You object; she explodes. Issue gets dropped.

WW does something (obviously opens secret e-mail). You object; she explodes. Issue gets dropped.

WW does something (re-initiates facebook). You object; she explodes. Issue gets dropped.

WW does something (refuses to change phone number). You object; she explodes. Issue gets dropped.

WW does something (blames YOU for your needing to leave the rigs). You object; she explodes. Issue gets dropped.

WW does something (reneges on agreement to follow MB). You object; she explodes. Issue gets dropped

Plus les choses changent, plus elles restent les m�mes

RNR has expressed his desire to try to save his marriage.

Despite numerous edits & requests by the moderators to post ONLY helpful, encouraging Marriage Builders advice & concepts, we still have several that insist on discouraging.

To avoid a locked thread and/or suspensions, PLEASE refrain from posting if you can not be helpful

RNR,

Did you see Dr. H's response? Did you resend your email?

You can only control your and your actions. If your WW says or does something that makes you mad you need to not react back with an AO. What can we do to help you with this?

Please respond back to Dr. Harley.

There is at least one thing a person can do unilaterally that is good for any relationship: stop their own Lovebusters. You can stop yours RNR, regardless of what she does or does not do. Do not fight with her, no matter how justified you feel you are in sending a barb back to her.

Here's another good clip RNR for you to listen to (thanks MrAlias for the recommendation).

Radio Clip on Impulse Control

Tell us what you think.

I will be in contact with Dr. Harley this weekend.

Fantastic. Let us know what he says.

How are you doing with your AOs?

Sometimes a 2x4 is helpful.(metaphorically speaking, not physically)

I have a question about DJ. Me and my wife are reading through Love Busters, last night we were discussing disrespectful judgments. My wife feels that me not liking random text messages coming into her phone from unknown numbers with the same area code where the OM was last known to be is a disrespectful judgement on my part? One message said "we are watching you" the other said "hey, what's up?" Is me feeling this is highly suspicious a DJ on my part?

A DJ is when you try to impose your belief system on her. What do you think? Not liking random text messages has nothing to do with a DJ.

You SHOULD be highly suspicious. My gosh. What does she think? You should now trust her?? She is NOT trustworthy. Not even close! TOTAL transparency is not a negotiable EP. Has she given you JC and agreed to enter a program for recovery?


Disrespectful Judgments


When requests don't get you what you want, and demands don't work either, our instincts and habits often provide us with another controlling and abusive strategy -- disrespectful judgments. Without a doubt, demands are abusive, but disrespectful judgments often make demands seem merciful in comparison.

In the final analysis, disrespectful judgments represent an effort to force our spouses to give us what we want in marriage, but it's often cleverly disguised. Instead of making an outright demand, we present our problem as if it were really our spouse's personal shortcoming. We try to "straighten out" our spouse in an effort to get our way.

At the time we rationalize our disrespect by convincing ourselves that we're doing our spouses a big favor, to lift them from the darkness of their confusion into the light of our superior perspective. If they would only follow our advice, we tell ourselves, they could avoid many of life's pitfalls-and we would also get what we want.

A disrespectful judgment occurs whenever one spouse tries to impose a system of values and beliefs on the other. When a husband tries to force his point of view on his wife, he's just asking for trouble. When a wife assumes that her own views are right and her husband is woefully misguided -- and tells him so -- she enters a minefield.

In most cases, a disrespectful judgment is simply a sophisticated way of getting what one spouse wants from the other. But even when there are the purest motives, it's still a stupid and abusive strategy. It's stupid because it doesn't work, and it's abusive because it causes unhappiness. If we think we have the right -- even the responsibility -- to impose our view on our spouses, our efforts will almost invariably be interpreted as personally threatening, arrogant, rude, and incredibly disrespectful. That's when we make sizable withdrawals from the Love Bank.

me not liking random text messages coming into her phone...is a disrespectful judgement


edit***

The fact that she is resentful of your suspicions is all the evidence you need that your suspicions have a basis in fact!

She has stated that she wants all phone numbers changed tonight and she rewrote the NC letter yesterday and wants me to try sending it again today which I will do.

****edit****

My wife does seem like she is beginning to really try. She is very upset by so e of the comments so please ease up a little guys. I'm here looking for truth and I still don't know what to believe but time will tell the tale and I am not afraid to be divorced but I hope it doesn't go that way, I am givin her the opertunity to prove that she wants this.

My wife does seem like she is beginning to really try.

You can easily reconcile the statement above with the one below?

My wife feels that me not liking random text messages coming into
her phone from unknown numbers with the same area code where the
OM was last known to be is a disrespectful judgement on my part?

It really depends how you handle it.
Your feeling of suspicion is not a DJ.
But if you start making accusations based on that suspicion, it is very likely that you are DJing her.

If you are suspicious, then snoop. You do not need to discuss your suspicions with her.

I am very glad to hear that you two are finally reading through Lovebusters!

Feelings are not DJ's.

DJ's are beliefs.

If you feel vulnerable trusting her, that's not a DJ, that's how you feel.

If you believe she can never be trusted, that's a DJ.

I think that's a bullcrap comparison. MB concepts and principles aren't easy at first. They need to practice them. Her expressing a feeling (that it's a dj) and discussing her feelings with her husband is essential for recovery even if she's wrong. She needs to feel free to be wrong sometimes as they discuss things calmly and rationally. She can't get slapped down here and/or by extension at home every time she gets something wrong and RNR needs to be able to post and ask questions without everything being turned into another 2x4 at his wife.

I guess you could say that it's actually a DJ to imply that because she FELT it might be a dj to worry about random texts to her phone from OM's area code somehow makes her an unworthy "un-trying" forever wayward wife (not that NG is trying to fill her lovebank...but she is reading along). The question becomes...does RNR allow people/posters to continuously DJ his wife?


RNR...I'm sure you appreciate NG's participation on your thread. He's been a regular poster to you both for a long time but I think you need to stand up for your wife here and ask that NG refrain from posting to you or her any longer. I believe you have that right. It's your thread. Regardless of the circumstances...she is still your wife and you should protect her from his deliberately hurtful posts. Might be a nice love bank deposit you can make towards her??? You are in Plan A, right?

Just a suggestion.

Mr W

Me and my wife are in recovery. Pretty much past plan A and just workin forward.

Early recovery is, IMO, still Plan A time. My wife said and did some pretty fogged out things in early recovery that I, for the most part, ignored. Other times I'd point them out to her and we'd discuss them...calmly. Heck...I was learning this stuff too. We practiced together. I wasn't willing to give up progress over silly arguments about what constitutes a DJ and what doesn't. In Plan A...you just tend to be agreeable. You can always bring the question to the board...like you did to get an answer (without 2x4's preferably).

Question: did you get MAD discussing her feelings about the text messages being a DJ? I mean, someday, when she's in love with you again...she'll likely look back and realize how ridiculous it is to think you shouldn't be concerned about those text messages and she'll love you even more when she realizes you should have gotten mad about such...but didn't. That you cared enough about her and your marriage to discuss things with her and understand that she's gonna make mistakes and you won't punish her. These are just "feelings" after all (it would be worse if she said "This IS a DJ). I'm sure if your positions were reversed you might feel DJ'ed too, every time your intentions and actions were called into question. These are normal feelings that she needs to overcome using her rationality. The whole MB program is predicated on using logic and rationality versus relying on your feelings. Remember...FEELINGS LIE.

Mr. W