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Not sure about that. I agree it is not a 'technical requirement in MB' for R. Yes, I have heard Dr. Harley say remorse is not always necessary. But I would argue the point that in human nature the heart attitude sure makes a difference in how we Perceive our spouse and the wiliness of the BS to continue with R. Argue it with Dr. Harley, then, not here. It is Dr. Harley you are disagreeing with. I have heard Dr. Harley discuss the human element of recovery many times. To infer that my statements are in conflict with him on this issue is incorrect. Are you saying that Dr. Harley's position is that a remorseful WS does not help the BS recover easier then without? Again, I understand that Remorse is not A REQUIREMENT for recovery. I absolutely believe that each us can Judge our WS's progress through R based on their actions. How else can we determine if R is working or not? We have to judge them. I agree it is impossible to read minds concerning 'heart attitude'. But actions don't lie. Facts don't lie. Hey, maybe Marcos could R with you not being remorseful. Good for you two. Not me. It is up to each BS to determine what they can and cannot accept from their WS to R. Agreeing to a plan for Recovery such as MB is a part of that. So are you going to help this couple with Marriage Builders concepts, or continue to make this thread about you, 20year? What would Dr. Harley tell this couple if he were on the phone with them? Shouldn't that guide our posting?
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Each BS has to determine what is acceptable during recovery. Recovery IS in the present.
You and Prisca were able to R without it. Some of us can't. Okay, great but the purpose of this board is not for you to go around suggesting that people not recover. I think the moderator already spoke to this issue: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2745443#Post2745443If RNR does not want to recover his marriage, that's an easy choice to make and he doesn't need help from any of us with that. RNR has expressed his desire to try to save his marriage.
Despite numerous edits & requests by the moderators to post ONLY helpful, encouraging Marriage Builders advice & concepts, we still have several that insist on discouraging.
To avoid a locked thread and/or suspensions, PLEASE refrain from posting if you can not be helpful But if he does want to recover, some of us know just how to do that and can help him. Please stop getting in our way.
Last edited by markos; 08/01/13 10:37 AM.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Yes, I have heard Dr. Harley say remorse is not always necessary. Since we are talking about problems of the PRESENT, not the PAST, why would remorse even be an issue? Each BS has to determine what is acceptable during recovery. Recovery IS in the present. You and Prisca were able to R without it. Some of us can't. Do I want Clearmind to always be remorseful? I guess a part of me does..not in the respect that I bring up the A. I don't. We are living in the now. Remorse to me is that she is 'remorseful' for the pain an suffering she has put our family through. I don't want her to wear it like a yoke around her neck. Not at all. But, to think that when she reflects back on the past, she isn't remorseful...well..that is just hurtful. Why is that? You see, if she reflects on the past, and it is on having a romantic, loving marriage - why would she be remorseful? If the tragedy was the death of a child, would you want her constantly reflecting on that death? Besides, if you improve your marriage, it doesn't erase the worst moment in it, but it can make it less of a presence in the present... AND THAT'S THE POINT OF RECOVERY.
"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr
"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer
"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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So are you going to help this couple with Marriage Builders concepts, or continue to make this thread about you, 20year?
What would Dr. Harley tell this couple if he were on the phone with them? Shouldn't that guide our posting? Don't each of our stories have helpful components and insight for those looking for guidance here? You have posted many aspects of your and Prica's journey that are most insightful which are not 'straight MB textbook concepts'. Sharing of ideas that coincide with MB principles I believe are very helpful. They have always been for me. I believe I have posted numerous MB concepts for this couple to consider.
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You see, if she reflects on the past, and it is on having a romantic, loving marriage - why would she be remorseful?
If the tragedy was the death of a child, would you want her constantly reflecting on that death?
Besides, if you improve your marriage, it doesn't erase the worst moment in it, but it can make it less of a presence in the present... AND THAT'S THE POINT OF RECOVERY. So if someone murdered your child and they were in prison for it, they went through the system..found god...got an education.. came out 'reformed'..and since they are 'reformed' you would be 'ok' with the thought that this person has lost his remorse of killing your child? Doesn't the past hold a place for all of us in helping us make different decisions in the future? I'm not talking about dwelling on the past. I am talking about the relevance of lessons learned.
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But if he does want to recover, some of us know just how to do that and can help him. Please stop getting in our way. He said he was done and didn't want to R. Granted that might change. As you told me, you might want to check the postings before you state such things. Sure, Markos. Proceed. 
Last edited by 20YearHistory; 08/01/13 11:07 AM.
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You see, if she reflects on the past, and it is on having a romantic, loving marriage - why would she be remorseful?
If the tragedy was the death of a child, would you want her constantly reflecting on that death?
Besides, if you improve your marriage, it doesn't erase the worst moment in it, but it can make it less of a presence in the present... AND THAT'S THE POINT OF RECOVERY. So if someone murdered your child and they were in prison for it, they went through the system..found god...got an education.. came out 'reformed'..and since they are 'reformed' you would be 'ok' with the thought that this person has lost his remorse of killing your child? Doesn't the past hold a place for all of us in helping us make different decisions in the future? I'm not talking about dwelling on the past. I am talking about the relevance of lessons learned. Hyperbole. You aren't looking for a lifelong penance here, not remorse. I would look at time served, and life changes made as a demonstration of remorse. So, let's take your example; let's say this person was a young man who was at the time of transgression a gang member, and as part of their reformation afterwards they became a youth outreach worker. I would say that person is living their penance in a healthy and productive manner. This would be similar to a FWS actively participating in recovery and a loving, romantic marriage. Their daily actions demonstrate that remorse - even if they don't regularly dwell on it, they live it.
"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr
"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer
"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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This would be similar to a FWS actively participating in recovery and a loving, romantic marriage. Their daily actions demonstrate that remorse - even if they don't regularly dwell on it, they live it. I can see what you are saying. Great analogy. Just as RNR must do, in the end, we all have to individually look at our world through our own eyes and determine these things on our own.
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I believe I have posted numerous MB concepts for this couple to consider. Suggesting RNR judge whether her heart is in the right place is not one of them.
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Discontinue the debate on this thread, and get back to helping RNR consistent with Marriage Builders principles.
Last edited by MBSync; 08/01/13 11:33 AM.
MBSync - moderator
mbsync100@gmail.com
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At no time did I tell my WW that I wanted a divorce. I am not entirely sure how she came to that conclusion from me tellin her that she is not following through on her promises. At no time did I mention divorce to her, however it is something that is in no way off the table yet. She continues to hide things, I went online to deactivate some accounts today and I found that her Twitter account is still active and she became very defensive and upset when questioned about it.
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Could you describe "defensive and upset" in more detail, please? What reasons did she give for still having the account?
Have the two of you agreed to go through and deactivate the accounts together? Did you follow through on this? Did she go back and reactivate the account?
BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
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Did you manage to avoid fighting with her, despite her poor response?
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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I went on to deactivate a twitter account that I had setup using our shared email because she asked me to. When I was doing this I noticed that her account is still active using one of her old email accounts that she said was her sons but today she simply described as "his" email. She said she has not been online with it or the email. She just clams up and her answers to my questions are very short and boarder on making light of the whole thing. She then just goes and hides in the bedroom where she is right now.
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Yeah, there is no fighting. I won't engage in that nonsense anymore, I have no control of her and her actions and wants so ill just let the pieces fall into place themselves wherever they may lay.
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What about the online course? Have y'all signed up for that?
Me: 30
Him: 39
Together 5 years
Married the very best man in the world 04/06/2013 after being common law for too long. I'm a lucky woman.
7 Cats - Viscount Ashley of Leftfield, Pawkie Petunia, The Timinator, Leo the Lionheart, Fruit Snack, Cloud, and Barret
And our very lucky pony, Starbucks
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My W actually thinks we should. I think we should also. Coming up with the money right now is the difficult part of our situation.
She does things that make me think she is so serious about this and then something suddenly just pops up that just slaps everything right back to day one for me.
Last edited by RNR2013; 08/05/13 10:12 AM.
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My W actually thinks we should. I think we should also. Coming up with the money right now is the difficult part of our situation. Finding the money for this is probably the best thing you can do for your marriage at the moment.
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Yeah, there is no fighting. I won't engage in that nonsense anymore, I have no control of her and her actions and wants so ill just let the pieces fall into place themselves wherever they may lay. That's good to hear!
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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She does things that make me think she is so serious about this and then something suddenly just pops up that just slaps everything right back to day one for me. Impulse control, man, impulse control. You (and she) will probably never understand why she tends to do this. But in time she should become more comfortable with the idea of running her actions by you and only taking actions that do not have a negative effect on you.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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