Thank you 20YH, I kept repeating this mantra "It makes ME happy, that's why I do it".

Yes, I definitely will continue working on my LBs. They were huge for him from what he described, he said he hated talking about ANYTHING with me cause of my reactions. .

As far as setbacks, thanks for the warning lol. I'm sure he is confused, sometimes he would pull back, so I would back off. It hurt, but I think I handled it well. I did not press for hugs or kisses, just simple touches that I KNOW he loves.

I did discover something though via reciepts, before the A took place he had downloaded dating apps. He does not know I know, but I'm guessing he really meant he was very unhappy? Do i bring this up or keep it for myself?

Thank you 20YH! You have seriously given me hope when I had none. So far what you have said has been right, so you are like a mentor lol.

ETA: the dating apps were on his phone, but he removed them all on July 18, a few days after DDay. I did not realize I had access to this much of his phone so I am thinking I should not reveal it.

Thanks TD, I am looking up all articles on my LBs, and books on anger management. Anything y'all recommend? As far as snooping, I will keep it to myself during Plan A.

So now it is plan A until 8-26, its first day of school for my son and I, and WH wants us to take him together. If no agreement on R has come yet, I will go to Plan B. Which sucks because I actually felt happy being with him yesterday for once in the last few years... Like singing our duets, made me forget everything for 5 minutes...

I/ We (hopefully), have serious work to do....

Several years ago I was that person full of LB's and destroyed all the love my W had for me. I can relate to your situation very much.

Although R has been a rocky road for us filled with challenges, I was able to win her heart back and now I treasure her love more than I ever have. I want that for you too. You have a son depending on his mommy and daddy. You have a lot to fight for.

The best thing you can give your child is a loving home. A home where mommy and daddy are happy and in love, setting an example for him to model his future after.

The future holds no guarantees but I know you are going to give it your best shot!
What else can you do? As Dr. Harley said, the ball is in his court.

No. Don't bring up anything like that at all right now. That would be a LB withdraw. You have to avoid those like the plague!

The more LB deposits you are able to make now the better chance you will have in 3 weeks when you have the serious discussion about what YOU need to continue with him. You have to get that LB balance up in your account! That is your main priority right now.

Can you reach out to the OW and ask her if they have had contact? Any way of finding out what is going on behind the scenes without asking him?

The reality of the situation is that people with piss poor boundaries that are also unhappy in their M do all sorts of very stupid and hurtful things.

Chances are, he has done many other things that you are unaware of. Don't focus on that right now. Ok? Just keep your eye on today and tomorrow.

Dr. Harley says to "Trust but verify." It's perfectly fine to snoop; as a matter of fact, it's a really good idea. The best way to snoop is by doing so by means unknown to your H. Of course, any passwords he shares with you is valuable information. But he can always hide the real info from you.

So keep this knowledge to yourself and snoop until you are bored with what you find. And even then, it's a good idea to check periodically.

Finally, betrayed spouses are often advised to secretly download a keylogger onto the unfaithful spouse's phone/computer. It's not considered going against the POJA, because it's for the benefit of the marriage - to verify the trustworthiness, or not, of the formerly wayward spouse.

You did a fantastic Plan A with him the other day. I haven't had a chance to listen to your show yet, but did you tell Dr. Harley that you and your WH aren't living together?

Is there anymore spyware you can put on his devices? Can you get a VAR in his vehicle?

Remember no expectations during Plan A. Continue to work on you and your love busters.

Did you listen to the anger management 101 clips yet?

Have you told your DS5 yet?

Well she deleted her FB once I exposed to her entire family, I did email her and reiterated the NC. I'm guessing she has blocked my number, but nothing a number change can't help. I emailed her the OW letter i found her on MB, and told her I still had a copy of all her contacts, and if she contacted him again I would continue exposing her to the 900+ friend list she had.

I really hate finding things out, drives me nuts but it is definitely helping keep my AO's in check.


Is there a way to remotely install a keylogger on his phone? I have absolutely no access to his phone, I have access to his account though via his email.

Yes, Dr. Harley knows we are living separately.

Nope, unless I can install remotely via an app or link. And I might try the VAR. I received a notice to bring our other car in for a recall inspection, so I'll see if I can get it then.


Yup, I have to constantly remind myself to not expect ANYTHING, even common courtesy! Lol

I am in the process of listening to them, reading SAA, reading LB, Negotiating when Emotional... I've got a long reading list to get me through the next 3 weeks.

I have not told DS5, I know I should but I just don't know how, and I feel guilty....

So WH picked up DS5 for the weekend. His new job said it may take up to 2 weeks to get him in.
We had a heavy makeout session, and some petting. When they were leaving I reminded him of the agreements we made.
To which he replied "Well I'll change the username, can't change the number now because I applied at a few other places and waiting on calls, and I know you are still checking the phone records and know I am not talking to her. If I wanted to talk to her I can just use any other phone but I don't want to and I think it is stupid"

I was beyond P.O. but I kept my cool and said "Well i told you how I would feel more comfortable having sex knowing her # is blocked. I am not going to block it unless you agree with me or do it yourself, but please do not expect me to be comfortable. It is all up to you."

They left and it felt a little sour so i text him this "You're right. I cannot make you do anything you don't want, it has never worked. I explained to you my comfort. Like you said you can get in touch with her whenever you want. You might already have. I will not bring it up anymore. And no my goal is not to control you, or tell you what to do. It was for my own comfort. I am not mad and hope we are still on good terms. You choose to do what you want. Goodnight.

P.S. that was great. But don't expect it all the time...

I feel insulted, mad beyond words, used, angry, sad and dirty all at the same time... He wants me to take his word and I don't think he understands his word has failed me before! I feel he is getting the best of all worlds, living single, semi SF from me, freedom, and a pleasant BW who is being extra nice and loving and keeoing her cool when all she wants to do is cry or punch him in the freaking face!!

It's called cake eating. You did to not AO and I think you handled it well. Just Remember what the stick of plan A is. Let him know what it will take to keep you in the marriage. You should tell your son before he does and trust me he will make you a devil woman. I exposed to my SS who is 10 and my DS who is 5. Now SS is living with POSOM and WW. He's making their life hell because he knows the truth and doesn't bite his tongue. DS 5 refuses to speak with WW until she comes home and is angry at her.

Edit: remember let the consequences of the affair fall freely on the WS. It's not your fault if your DS is angry at him for his bonehead actions its his own. Don't feel guilty your innocent as you want to recover and upheld your vows.

could just be me and i know in plan a you need stick and carrot but i think you should try to really sweeten him up when you see him/interact with him.

this thing is fragile. he's not living at home and most of what he remembers about you is unpleasant.

don't bring up stuff you know will trigger YOU to have an AO. you're doing great work. tease and flirt and be seductive and fun. be careful about choosing when to bring up your marital conditions for recovery.

if it were me, i'd do a little more carrot before breaking out the stick.

TD, I will definitely expose to DS5 on Sunday when I get him back. I have not said anything more regarding our M or Recovery because he has stood firmly by repeating "We are not getting back together, it will not be the same etc."

Zibbles, I was thinking the same. I was wondering if maybe I should have waited because we are only seeing each other about once a week, maybe twice in DS5 exchange. I don't he has seen enough of my good Plan A for him to think things will be different.
See I'm trying to see from his POV:
Day one after show:She has AO at night
Day two:We hang out shes is happy, i get carrassed
Day 3: She asks me to make changes when we are not even together.

Idk, maybe I am being too kind in trying to see his POV, but I have only been implementing my redone and rethought awesome Plan A for 3 days, now that I have spoken to Dr. Harley I see the first attempts sucked and it was more Plan C.

Should I drop absolutely ALL talk about us, R, M? The sex was not horrible the first time since the AO, but now he probably thinks I am trying to control him with sex?

I really need advice guys, I'm driving myself nuts lol.

i would drop relationship talk for now. he's going to keep reiterating that he doesn't want to come back which is frustrating and a trigger. just be the person he initially fell in love with. find her and bring her back!

know too that the work you're doing here is worthwhile whether or not he recommits. you are becoming a better partner and mother, learning great skills to carry forward. none of this is wasted no matter the outcome.

knowing this will help you stay motivated when he deflates your efforts and he will. the wayward in him needs to believe that you are mean and unchangeable in order for him to continue on with the destruction of your family. he WILL bait you.

not sure what to say about the sexual element. some have used sex as part of plan a successfully (neak) others would say no way. do not let your own sexual frustration drive you to actions you will later regret. if it were me, i'd keep it at flirtation and seduction without a lot of intense contact. you want to make him long for it. drive that man crazy.

plan a for three weeks (you might be at least a week in?) give it your all and then you might consider plan b. keep it light, flirty and fun. you are showing him what he's missing. this is your job right now. try to avoid the traps he sets where he gets to say he's NEVER coming back.

i said that wrong. sexual fulfillment is definitely part of plan a but is debatable when there's no reassurance that the affair has ended. neak used seduction to help pry her WH away from his affair partner and she did it artfully and strategically. if you search for her threads, she explains how she did it and the thinking behind it.

Yes, when I think of plan A, I think of Neak too. A strong, inspirational woman!

Here is one of Neak's threads just to get you started

A firm hand on the tiller

Zibbles and Rocket Queen, thank you both for the advice. Y'all helped me get through one of the low nights! I am still reading on Neak and other vets. They are STRONG, I was beyond amazed at their strength and I will use their experience to make me stronger!

OMG please any vets who are on in the AM I need emergency advice! Things went crazy today and it would take forever to write.

He is going crazy asking where I was, with who etc. I explained I went out with my sister and friends. I told him he had been on my mind all day and I couldn't wait to see him again for another session etc and he replied I wonder why and who made you think like that.

WTF?!?! He is now texting and calling me like crazy asking for proof that I am home. He said he was bring DS5, I said thats fine, then he said no lets meet up like we said we would. I said fine. He wants proof I am at home with pictures.
I said "H I don't understand you, you say be happy and move on. I am being happy but I am still hurting. I want us only if you do." Etc.

I am so confused and angry and sad and IDK what the freak to feel!!!

Then I said I refused to talk to him when he was very angry he said no he wants to settle now. But he went crazy again! I silenced my phone but he keeps texting me saying "I was starting to feel wanted but not anymore. You are confusing me and it makes me mad"

He had the freaking decency to threaten me by saying "I guess i will find someone else to text!!!!!!!"

WTF. I said DO NOT THREATEN ME after all the hurt you have caused, If you want to text anyone go ahead.

He replied but I want to text you but you decided today not to text me all day etc.

PLEASE someone give me advice, he is begging to meet at 12 tomorrow. IDK what to say or how to handle this. So many LB's in a matter of hours from both us!

He seriously does NOT see that he hurt me. I see no remorse it is all about HIM HIM HIM.

UGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH. I am so angry and needed to vent!

Don't meet with him while you are angry. Tell him that you need more time to cool down. Without controlling anger, the two of you will just dig in deeper with LBs.

It is very common for a wayward to flip the situation and accuse their BS. It makes little sense if you are the BS. I think for the wayward, they know from first hand experience how easy it all really is to fall into the infidelity trap.

Mr. E, thank you! I feel much more calmer than last night.

I had a panic attack before I went to bed.

My WH has NEVER been jealous. He always said he did not care about male friends or if I went out etc. I have never dealt with him being jealous.

It was always me questioning him and being jealous and snooping.

What is wrong with WS's? They betray, say they want nothing and encourage you to go out and be happy, do not agree to even slight idea of EP's and then when BS goes out (with family to the beach) they go crazy?!

How do I respond to his threat of texting someone else because I was refusing to talk to him while he was mad?
Or him wanting proof of my whereabouts?

I never thought I would be the one in this position in our relationship...

The answer is that EPs are for both of you. His jealousy should help him appreciate the advantage of this. You are both held equally accountable to each other. So, don't criticize his jealousy, rather, use it to your advantage to draw him into agreement with a MB-based recovery plan.