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Thanks BH!
That makes so much sense! He has been gaslighting me forever!
Anytime something suspicious would happen he would say I was crazy, I was the FBI, we can't move forward because I don't trust him, he even said I was obsessed with him.
GRR. At one point I actually started to believe maybe I was obsessed, maybe I was crazy... Nope it wasn't and isn't you at all. Waywards follow the same sorry script. Keep educating yourself because that's your best ammunition on how to deal with him. It isn't you and don't believe his Fog Babble.
FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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I will keep reading. It has always been a hobby of mine, now all I read is MB materials lol.
BH, I'm not sure if there is a thread like this but I want to continue on Plan A, the biggest problem is the fact that we are separated and he is NOT welcome at my fathers.
How can I implement Plan A with such distance?
BW: 23
FWH: 24
Married: 3 years, together 7.
DS: 6
D-Day: 7/15/2013
Separated since 7/15/13
Recovering since 8/26/2013
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I'll do you one better. Here are some radio clips on Plan A from afar. It's difficult to find a Plan A from afar for BWs, but take a listen. Radio Clip of Chitenator's Show Segment #2 Segment #3 Segment #4
FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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Lol using my radio clips huh. But wouldn't getting a guys attention be different then a womans? When you guys where dating what did he liked about you? I would take a step back and try to remember what made him attracted to you.
Married for 3 years
And going through a seperation.
me bh 33
her ww 34
2 kids
her dd 14
my ds 8
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FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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Lol using my radio clips huh. But wouldn't getting a guys attention be different then a womans? When you guys where dating what did he liked about you? I would take a step back and try to remember what made him attracted to you. Yup. Not a lot of Plan A from afar for BWs because usually BWs aren't separated until Plan B. I'll keep looking.
FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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I know there's a radio clip or two, also, where Dr. Harley states he doesn't advise betrayed wives to try to win their wayward husbands back, most especially if the husband has moved out. You are going to hurt yourself trying to pursue him and win him back. I am about to go read your whole thread, but just this page alone prompts me to think you should just implement the whole of Plan B.
If he's not willing to pursue you and convince you with behavior that he's the best man for you, then no matter how much you do for him, he'll not treat you with the care you need.
xFWW(me)-48
Married-14 years
D-Day~23-May-11
NC- 14-Apr-11
1 DS 15
Online course July '11 to July '12
17 sessions with S. Harley Feb '12 to Sep '12
Divorced Jan 21, 2013
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I still stand by what I said after reading the whole thread.
My point of view is this guy is really bad news. His babble is more than WW talk. Your implementation of Plan A doesn't have to be perfect in order to get a commitment to recovery. As far as I can see, you didn't have an angry outburst when you told him you didn't feel excited about being insulted by his manipulative tactic when you told him "no" on the nude pictures.
xFWW(me)-48
Married-14 years
D-Day~23-May-11
NC- 14-Apr-11
1 DS 15
Online course July '11 to July '12
17 sessions with S. Harley Feb '12 to Sep '12
Divorced Jan 21, 2013
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I still stand by what I said after reading the whole thread.
My point of view is this guy is really bad news. His babble is more than WW talk. Your implementation of Plan A doesn't have to be perfect in order to get a commitment to recovery. As far as I can see, you didn't have an angry outburst when you told him you didn't feel excited about being insulted by his manipulative tactic when you told him "no" on the nude pictures. This poster was advised directly by Dr. H on the radio show last week. Summarizing: She is free to go into plan B at any time, but due to her young age, he advises that she plan A for three weeks from the date of her last AO. If she were older, he said he would advise her to plan B now.
me-65
wife-61
married for 40 years
DS - 38, autistic, lives at home
DD - 37, married and on her own
DS - 32, still living with us
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Okay, I won't argue.
I'll be thinking of some things that could help Plan A under these conditions, then.
xFWW(me)-48
Married-14 years
D-Day~23-May-11
NC- 14-Apr-11
1 DS 15
Online course July '11 to July '12
17 sessions with S. Harley Feb '12 to Sep '12
Divorced Jan 21, 2013
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Lol using my radio clips huh. But wouldn't getting a guys attention be different then a womans? When you guys where dating what did he liked about you? I would take a step back and try to remember what made him attracted to you. Hmm H.S. years, this is our story: I met WH as a sophomore and him a junior. He saw a picture of me through a friends phone. His words "I knew I had to have you." I was interested in his friend, so thought I would use WHs friendship to get closer lol. WH ended up calling me every night and within the month we were dating. We dated for 6 months, into the summer (H.S. years means not a lot of visiting or seeing each other). I lost my virginity to him 4 months in and when we came back to school he said "We need time apart, I'm a senior and want to have fun" He ended up screwing the biggest whore in school. I cried and begged the first month, but after that I GAL and started dating someone else 2 months after the breakup. People kept telling me WH looked like crap, he got very bad acne, he was not laughing or being playful like everyone knew. I did not care, I was finally done crying and having fun. One random day a common friend of ours asked me to come over so I did. It was a trap to get us to talk. I refused and tried to leave as soon as I saw his face in the window. He begged and cried and said he realized his mistake and he could not live his life without me. It took another month, where I was between 2 guys (NO SEX, its only been WH). In my mind I came back to him with a plan for revenge. I kept a lot from him and treated him like crap. We dated another year, he graduated. I was going to be a senior! My plan was to break up with him using his same line, but my period was late and I knew I was preggo. I still called him and said we were over, I never wanted to see him again because I wanted to enjoy my senior year. 30 minutes later he was there at my house begging and wanting to know why. I told him I was preggo and he said we are keeping the baby, I love you we will be okay. Pregnancy and H.S., your own apt at 17 one part time worker at McD's and H.S. student= disaster. Every year since then I have either semi strayed, but never had sex with anyone else more like EAs.He would also but I could catch him. I never knew there was more than one PA. There have been 2 other separations that played out the same way. Me begging him leaving. This time I did not do any of it and made him leave, or in his words "I wanted to leave a long time ago." I know, our relationship has been crap from the get go. And I now see why, because we had no idea what a marriage was supposed to be. Here I am now, more mature and past the wanting attention from others. I want a great marriage. He always said he loved my smile, my butt lol. He said I used to laugh at his jokes. We used to like the same music. I know I am partly to blame because I have not also been 100% with him either. That's why I am wanting this one chance from BOTH of us to give it 100% and if it still does not work, I will leave knowing I tried everything. Sorry it is so long. I feel like WH keeps being the bad guy
BW: 23
FWH: 24
Married: 3 years, together 7.
DS: 6
D-Day: 7/15/2013
Separated since 7/15/13
Recovering since 8/26/2013
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When your a teenage mom there often isn't a guidebook thrown at you on how to live or parent or have a marriage.
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BH, thank you for the segments. I've been listening and definitely get the no AOs ever again. So far I think I am doing good, I handled the news yesterday as calmly as possible.
My big mistake, that has been repeated, is I went in there with expectations of some miraculous change because he was all of a sudden wanting to know what I was up to, who I was with, and wanting to know why I am so happy.
You must understand this guy has NEVER been jealous, has ALWAYS said I'm not jealous I know you are mine only, you can have male friends, everyone knows you're beautiful and you are mine etc.
Not once in 7 years has he ever reacted this way... I just don't know what to think of it.
I have obviously depleted whatever I deposited because he is not responding to my text anymore.
He sent me this "U made me feel wanted and I wanted to talk and text and want everything with you nut now I am just mad and confused"
I think what HHH said about him finally realizing he is an addict is true.
Thanks guys. I am working on Plan B letter and should put it up here soon.
BW: 23
FWH: 24
Married: 3 years, together 7.
DS: 6
D-Day: 7/15/2013
Separated since 7/15/13
Recovering since 8/26/2013
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When your a teenage mom there often isn't a guidebook thrown at you on how to live or parent or have a marriage. Trust me, I have learned that as I go. Lol. And I would not change my DS5, he is amazing and lights up my world. I am lucky because both of my parents, although divorced, supported us as much as possible.
BW: 23
FWH: 24
Married: 3 years, together 7.
DS: 6
D-Day: 7/15/2013
Separated since 7/15/13
Recovering since 8/26/2013
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Plan A will not work for you if you go in to it with
ANY EXPECTATIONS
that you
will
should
could
get YOUR own EN's met....
that's is the formula for failure...
set up to fail by the BS....
I have said it a hundred times...
PLAN A must have a time frame for ending BEFORE it begins....
so that the person entering it...realizes that they will be giving and doing things that go against...
societies advice...drop em dump em slam em....
friends and family who love you and CAN NOT stand to see you hurt.....
and even your gut instincts....IT'S NOT FAIR... that I the BS do this when the WS doessn't deserve it...
again and again and again...
the deep seeded rationalization it takes for a person to engage in an affair...
is the complete compartimentalization of reality
and has been building in their thought long before the affair 'officially began"
you must
must
must...
be willing to accept that the BS has been mentally villified to
excuse
justify
and
rationalize affair actions.......
PLAN A is allll about and in my opinion....
opening up communication
in tiny tiny avenues
always giving the WS exactly what they don't EXPECT
this is NOT door matt behavior....but like PEP once BRILLIANTLY concluded...
a WELCOME HOME MATT
love that cerebral picture....
you know what exactly feeds in to the WS justification...
behaving in a way that gives them the weapon to aim at you...
PLAN A is not grandiose fix it now
PLAN A is not about addressing deep marital issues....
that is also set up to fail as the WS is in total
justification mode....
PLAN A is NOT long drawn out talks that go way in to the night.....
When you pick your end date...the FIRST step in plan A....
then you build a road map...of all the things you can do that get the WS attention...
small verbal interchanges
small gestures....
WS spouses are drawn to say that even when the affair relationship is failing.....
that there is too much damage done already to fix the marriage....
there is great fear in facing their actions.....
and forcing them to do so when they are in this mode is also setting up for failure...
push for the apologies...and woe to you who get it without true meaning because you will not have true remorse...
but remorse that will again become the weapon....
PLAN A is full of hope and NOT about fixing things in the marriage in that the WS needs to address...
THAT is what recovery is for...
PLAN A is never ever about getting a committment from the WS to do something....
again hand the weapon
you will hear...
you made me
you forced me
you controlled me....
PLAN A is about setting your boundaries....that are full of actions for the BS and NONE for the WS
in a good plan A you can say...
I didn't make you choose anything...
I just refuse to be part of a triangle...period...
you my dear WS will make your own choice as well....
and then add....
with a warm smile...
remember my love....
doing nothing is a choice as well......
People that do plan A well find great freedom and creativity in the doing and giving and meeting of ENs...
people that expect their needs to be met...
flounder and get crushed....
please please please use the board here to ground yourself in plan A....
digging deep for its short term actions........of great sacrifice.......knowing the payoff is down the line.....
NOT while in plan A....
never in plan A....
I could go on and on and on about this......
If you don't understand this...use this board....
ARK This is amazing, really clears up what YOU all have been saying to me. Stop wanting and just give for the next few weeks.
BW: 23
FWH: 24
Married: 3 years, together 7.
DS: 6
D-Day: 7/15/2013
Separated since 7/15/13
Recovering since 8/26/2013
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So now his eyes are opening up, huh?
One of the hardest things about Plan A is doing so without any expectations. It is natural to want to see your WH respond in a positive way.
Things are actually moving very quickly between you two. You may not see it from your standpoint but they are! What you are doing is having its desired effects.
The fact that he is reacting the way that he is GOOD. He is in conflict with himself and trying to be in conflict with YOU. The way you are handling yourself is confusing to him. He is having a hard time now blaming you for anything now.
In a way it would be easier for him if you went psycho so he could justify in his own mind what he has done.
BUT you aren't! You are not giving him ANY ammo to use against you...so, the consequences of his actions are falling on HIS shoulders.
You have to show him that you have changed. Tell him you want a relationship of honesty and that is exactly what you are doing. I really think that if you can give this the full 3 weeks like you are, much is going to happen.
Who cares if he acted jealous! This means he DOES care for you.
Try to relax if you can. I know it is hard. Don't get sucked into heavy conversations and his drama. That is all he is doing now...just creating drama and blowing smoke.
This is absolutely WS reactions 101. Very typical. He is now becoming very aware of how his choices have been affecting both of you. Let him stew on this for a while.
Maintain that Happy and positive attitude! If more things come out in the near future that are crushing to you, it might change how you view wanting to R your M. However, the prescription for 1 A vs. 5 is exactly the same if you want to R your M.
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So now his eyes are opening up, huh?
One of the hardest things about Plan A is doing so without any expectations. It is natural to want to see your WH respond in a positive way.
Things are actually moving very quickly between you two. You may not see it from your standpoint but they are! What you are doing is having its desired effects.
The fact that he is reacting the way that he is GOOD. He is in conflict with himself and trying to be in conflict with YOU. The way you are handling yourself is confusing to him. He is having a hard time now blaming you for anything now.
In a way it would be easier for him if you went psycho so he could justify in his own mind what he has done.
BUT you aren't! You are not giving him ANY ammo to use against you...so, the consequences of his actions are falling on HIS shoulders.
You have to show him that you have changed. Tell him you want a relationship of honesty and that is exactly what you are doing. I really think that if you can give this the full 3 weeks like you are, much is going to happen.
Who cares if he acted jealous! This means he DOES care for you.
Try to relax if you can. I know it is hard. Don't get sucked into heavy conversations and his drama. That is all he is doing now...just creating drama and blowing smoke.
This is absolutely WS reactions 101. Very typical. He is now becoming very aware of how his choices have been affecting both of you. Let him stew on this for a while.
Maintain that Happy and positive attitude! If more things come out in the near future that are crushing to you, it might change how you view wanting to R your M. However, the prescription for 1 A vs. 5 is exactly the same if you want to R your M. 20YH, I guess because you have seen this before you know more than I do what is happening with him. I'm just beyond confused. And I really am terrified of what I will hear. I still don't believe he is wanting to clear his guilt because of me, more like for himself. I don't think he will ever change. I am beginning to see him as someone new, someone I have never known. Someone who sweet talked me into a relationship.. I know I am being pessimistic, but I prefer here than in the real world, where everyone is amazed at my weight loss and how relaxed I look. In reality my insides are on fire, my mind is running constantly. Where can I find the conflict material you are talking about? I was searching but no luck. I thought that serial cheaters are treated differently? Sometimes there is no hope? What's the idea here on MB? Thank you 20YH, you really don't understand how grateful I am that someone else has better insight and more hope than I do.
BW: 23
FWH: 24
Married: 3 years, together 7.
DS: 6
D-Day: 7/15/2013
Separated since 7/15/13
Recovering since 8/26/2013
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I'm just beyond confused. And I really am terrified of what I will hear. I still don't believe he is wanting to clear his guilt because of me, more like for himself.
I don't think he will ever change. I am beginning to see him as someone new, someone I have never known. Someone who sweet talked me into a relationship.. Your reactions are 100% normal. Trying to figure out a wayward spouse using LOGIC is ....well a total waste of time! and very emotionally taxing. Just let it roll off your back and stay on course. You have a Plan! He doesn't. He is just floundering. Can't you see that? When you learn to completely let go of tying to predict him or having expectations, life will get much easier for you. Of course he can change! That is something completely within his power IF he wants to. The person you fell in love with is still in there, just buried deep side. Or, maybe his true personality is now coming out. Having a strong M with you requires you both to make radical changes in your life. He will have to become a willing participant. You both have to learn how to take each other's feelings into consideration with every decision. Your journey is just beginning. Marathon not a sprint. One day at a time. Your destiny is not defined by yesterday. Again, it is a serious of events. ____________________ If someone who has a long history of dishonesty and thoughtlessness agrees to follow the Policy of Radical Honesty and the Policy of Joint Agreement, that person is on his or her way to becoming trustworthy, in spite of past history. As he or she learns how to be honest and thoughtful, and proves it again and again whenever conflicts arise, it's only a matter of time before trust is restored. How can you ever be certain that your spouse will not have another affair? How can you ever trust him or her again? If you build your relationship on the Policy of Joint Agreement and the Policy of Radical Honesty, you'll find that your trust will be based on the solid foundation of experience. You'll learn to be honest with each other about every detail of your lives, and you'll be firmly committed to taking each other's feelings into account with every decision you make. By doing those things, you make another affair impossible.
Trust can be achieved in marriage, even after an affair. When honesty and thoughtfulness has been proven over a period of time (usually about two years), trust is created that does not have to be demanded. It comes naturally and effortlessly. And when it does, you have more reason to trust your spouse than you did before the affair took place.
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In the articles section of this site the are some fantastic information on how to Survive Infidelity which is all in SAA.
Take some time to read through these and you will be able to see what you are both going through such as Withdraw and Conflict.
You are both going through these now!
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