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Yes, Air Force, you're getting called out by a former OM here.

Because it sounds like you & I could have a good conversation, over a virtual coffee, about letting things get too close with a "ministry colleague" (which, I'm sorry to say, I know way too much about firsthand).

Three questions for you:
-- Since when do two wrongs make a right?
-- Is there some part of "no contact" that don't understand?
-- What are you going to do to bring about no-contact?

Look, I'm not here to chew you a new one (even though it sounds like you've earned it, and even though you don't score too much credit for merely getting caught a little further up the slippery slope than I was when my OW & I got caught). I don't get any jollies out of spending scarce free time on a Sunday night just to take verbal potshots at strangers in the virtual world, & for not a dime's worth of compensation to boot. I'm only here to help you guys fix your marriage & make it better, because what you've been lurching through these past few years obviously isn't good enough, is it?

So hit me up, brother.


Me: FWH, 50
My BW: Trust_Will_Come, 52, tall, beautiful & heart of gold
DD23, DS19
EA-then-PA Oct'08-Jan'09
Broke it off & confessed to BW (after OW's H found out) Jan.7 2009
Married 25 years & counting.
Grateful for forgiveness. Working to be a better husband.
"I wear the chain I forged in life... I made it link by link, and yard by yard" ~Jacob Marley's ghost, A Christmas Carol
"Do it again & you're out on your [bum]." ~My BW, Jan.7 2009
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Good post, GO. I'll find his thread and pass you a link. I posted there the other night hoping to get his attention. Have you seen him logged in?


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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GloveOil & markos

Thank you, gentlemen, for reaching out to me.

Thank you for all you have been doing to support FF in her "things I never thought of" thread. I read through that trail of posts tonight--FF specifically gave me permission to do so. She made me aware of the fact that you two were reaching out to me and asked me to come post. So here I am.

I screwed up and I know it. I have disclosed everything to FF. I hedged the first few days but kept waking up afraid of what other truth might yet come out. I decided if & when any other details became known, I wanted FF to have already heard them from me first. I sat down with her this past Thursday night and confessed everything. She has been more than gracious. She has also been resolute in squashing my affair through exposure and accountability. She has done nobly!

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Originally Posted by Learning2Cherish
GloveOil & markos

Thank you, gentlemen, for reaching out to me.

Thank you for all you have been doing to support FF in her "things I never thought of" thread. I read through that trail of posts tonight--FF specifically gave me permission to do so. She made me aware of the fact that you two were reaching out to me and asked me to come post. So here I am.

I screwed up and I know it. I have disclosed everything to FF. I hedged the first few days but kept waking up afraid of what other truth might yet come out. I decided if & when any other details became known, I wanted FF to have already heard them from me first. I sat down with her this past Thursday night and confessed everything. She has been more than gracious. She has also been resolute in squashing my affair through exposure and accountability. She has done nobly!
Did you send that six page NC letter?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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I will be completely transparent with you here. I welcome your rebuke / admonishment if you see any area in which I am being an idiot. I know I am still in the fog and I welcome the clarity you offer.

There are no excuses. But there are reasons. Let me fill you in on what has taken place since our last contact in December of 2011. The year 2012 was hell. I found out in May '12 that FF had gone back to her AP in Nov '11. I was devastated. I continued trying to reach out to her and to win her heart back--to fill up her love bank. It seemed no matter how hard I tried she kept me at arm�s length.

Early this year I began working on a ministry team at our church. I did have FF�s support to do that. She cared not to be involved but supported my doing so. My role had me communicating via e-mail frequently with the pastor�s admin assistant. I failed to maintain appropriate boundaries.

In March, we began e-mailing each other about non-ministry-related topics (e.g. the sermons we heard or devotionals we were reading or comments in mission newsletters.) I rationalized to myself this was acceptable because it was discussing spiritual things. I rationalized it was acceptable because we were never alone together and never spoke on the phone. But the truth is I was investing time and energy into another woman; I was allowing my heart to be drawn toward her and away from FF. Ultimately the OW and I expressed in writing to each other that if ever our current vows were completed, we would each seek the other out for the purpose of a shared, future ministry.

I realize now how messed up that is. What a fool I was to think for even a moment that a sense of hope for joy outside of a covenant made before God could ever possibly be of God. Yet I was so desperate for hope and to make sense of what felt like a complete failure on God�s part toward me that I found consolation in the idea that God had some other, �grander� plan. I know now how stupid and wrong this thinking was.

The result was not joy but sorrow and regret. I betrayed and grievously injured my wife, our children, another family and our church leadership. I have brought much heart ache to us all that will carry a life-time of consequences.

But I have hope. Where once I was proud and felt I deserved God�s blessing, I realize now I am nothing more than a sinner, more in need of grace than anyone I know! I knew better!!! Yet I walked that road and took that fall. I am now just another statistic. So who am I to expect anything good from God or from my FF? I am just thankful FF is willing to stand by my side and help me clean up my mess and help me comfort our children as they reap the consequences of Daddy�s choices.

He who is forgiven much loves much.

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Did you send that six page NC letter?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Did you send that six page NC letter?


Not sure about a six-pager??? I have sent no NC letter. That will be up to FF if and when anything is sent. I did speak with her tonight, though. I realize my draft is pretty much fog babble. I am depending on her to help me write a proper NC letter.

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Originally Posted by Learning2Cherish
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Did you send that six page NC letter?


Not sure about a six-pager??? I have sent no NC letter. That will be up to FF if and when anything is sent. I did speak with her tonight, though. I realize my draft is pretty much fog babble. I am depending on her to help me write a proper NC letter.

Do you have SAA?
Originally Posted by Dr Harley
My advice is to write a final letter in a way that the victimized spouse would agree to send it. It should begin with a statement of how selfish it was to cause those they loved so much pain, and while marital reconciliation cannot completely repay the offense, it's the right thing to do. A statement should be made about how much the unfaithful spouse cares about his spouse and family, and for their protection, has decided to completely end the relationship with the lover. He or she has promised never to see or communicate with the lover again in life, and asks the lover to respect that promise. Nothing should be said about how much the lover will be missed. After the letter is written, the victimized spouse should read and approve it before it is sent


[from SAA, pg 58]

OW, I want you to know that out of respect and love for my wife and children, I have come to realize that I must never see or talk to you again. My relationship with you was a cruel indulgence that BS did not deserve. While I cannot completely repay BS for the pain I caused her, I will do my best to become the husband she has been missing. I care a great deal for my family and I would not want to do anything to risk their happiness. I will not make any further contact with you and I do not want you to make any contact with me. Please respect my desire to end our relationship.

Sincerely, XXXXX


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Is the following all true?

Originally Posted by markos
I hope that we will soon see a post from you letting us know that you have ended contact with this woman for life and resigned from this ministry and that from now on your ministries will be performed in conjunction with your wife and that, from the endless ministry opportunities available, you will select only those that you are both enthusiastic about.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Originally Posted by Learning2Cherish
Early this year I began working on a ministry team at our church. I did have FF�s support to do that.

It was still a bad idea. Many married couples manage to agree enthusiastically to something that is a bad idea.

You need to only be involved in ministries with your wife. And there are many available.

Agreed?


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Originally Posted by Learning2Cherish
GloveOil & markos

Thank you, gentlemen, for reaching out to me.

Thank you for all you have been doing to support FF in her "things I never thought of" thread. I read through that trail of posts tonight--FF specifically gave me permission to do so. She made me aware of the fact that you two were reaching out to me and asked me to come post. So here I am.

I screwed up and I know it. I have disclosed everything to FF. I hedged the first few days but kept waking up afraid of what other truth might yet come out. I decided if & when any other details became known, I wanted FF to have already heard them from me first. I sat down with her this past Thursday night and confessed everything. She has been more than gracious. She has also been resolute in squashing my affair through exposure and accountability. She has done nobly!

So the purpose of your post was to persuade us that (a) you have finally come clean; (b) your affair is completely over; and (c) you have the highest regard for your BW. Think that will be enough to convince BW that she can cancel your polygraph appointment? Me neither.

I realize you spent a lot of time composing that "no-contact" letter, but you seemed oblivious to the fact that a truly repentent WS would be expressing concern for his BW, not the woman who backstabbed his BW. That "no contact letter" seemed like a shameless attempt to persuade the reader that you were merely guilty of being too concerned with OW's spiritual life. I'm afraid you are desperately trying to whitewash your affair so you can continue withholding information regarding it. Your affair wasn't some high-minded spiritual endeavor, and you didn't write a NC letter; you wrote a CYA letter.

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Originally Posted by Learning2Cherish
I will be completely transparent with you here. I welcome your rebuke / admonishment if you see any area in which I am being an idiot. I know I am still in the fog and I welcome the clarity you offer.

There are no excuses. But there are reasons. Let me fill you in on what has taken place since our last contact in December of 2011. The year 2012 was hell. I found out in May '12 that FF had gone back to her AP in Nov '11. I was devastated. I continued trying to reach out to her and to win her heart back--to fill up her love bank. It seemed no matter how hard I tried she kept me at arm�s length.

Early this year I began working on a ministry team at our church. I did have FF�s support to do that. That's not what she said. She cared not to be involved but supported my doing so. My role had me communicating via e-mail frequently with the pastor�s admin assistant. If your goal is to be completely transparent, why are you trying to create distance by referring to OW as "the pastor's admin assistant"? We already know this woman and her family were extremely close friends with your family. I failed to maintain appropriate boundaries.

In March, we began e-mailing each other about non-ministry-related topics (e.g. the sermons we heard or devotionals we were reading or comments in mission newsletters.) I rationalized to myself this was acceptable because it was discussing spiritual things. I rationalized it was acceptable because we were never alone together and never spoke on the phone. But the truth is I was investing time and energy into another woman; I was allowing my heart to be drawn toward her and away from FF. Ultimately the OW and I expressed in writing to each other that if ever our current vows were completed, we would each seek the other out for the purpose of a shared, future ministry. According to your BW, you and OW wanted to marry each other if your spouses weren't in the picture. You described the prospect of marrying your affair partner as "a shared future ministry." Wow.

I realize now how messed up that is. What a fool I was to think for even a moment that a sense of hope for joy outside of a covenant made before God could ever possibly be of God. Yet I was so desperate for hope and to make sense of what felt like a complete failure on God�s part toward me that I found consolation in the idea that God had some other, �grander� plan. I know now how stupid and wrong this thinking was.

The result was not joy but sorrow and regret. I betrayed and grievously injured my wife, our children, another family and our church leadership. I have brought much heart ache to us all that will carry a life-time of consequences.

But I have hope. Where once I was proud and felt I deserved God�s blessing, I realize now I am nothing more than a sinner, more in need of grace than anyone I know! I knew better!!! Yet I walked that road and took that fall. I am now just another statistic. So who am I to expect anything good from God or from my FF? I am just thankful FF is willing to stand by my side and help me clean up my mess and help me comfort our children as they reap the consequences of Daddy�s choices. Why are you so focused on yourself? Why is this all about you?

He who is forgiven much loves much.

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Originally Posted by BrainHurts
[from SAA, pg 58]

OW, I want you to know that out of respect and love for my wife and children, I have come to realize that I must never see or talk to you again. My relationship with you was a cruel indulgence that BS did not deserve. While I cannot completely repay BS for the pain I caused her, I will do my best to become the husband she has been missing. I care a great deal for my family and I would not want to do anything to risk their happiness. I will not make any further contact with you and I do not want you to make any contact with me. Please respect my desire to end our relationship.

Sincerely, XXXXX


Thank you for the reference, BrainHurts. This is good. I can write this with complete sincerity. I will start with this and work with FF to modify if she thinks need be.

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Originally Posted by markos
It was still a bad idea. Many married couples manage to agree enthusiastically to something that is a bad idea.

You need to only be involved in ministries with your wife. And there are many available.

Agreed?

Yes, markos. Agreed. I commit to this.

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Originally Posted by JessicaClaire
So the purpose of your post was to persuade us that (a) you have finally come clean; (b) your affair is completely over; and (c) you have the highest regard for your BW. Think that will be enough to convince BW that she can cancel your polygraph appointment? Me neither.

The purpose of my post was to come back to MB to seek help from others just like you--those who will call it like they see it. This helps me identify areas where I am still messed up in my thinking. This helps me chart a course that I hope will allow full reconciliation with FF. I want a good marriage. I want to a good life with FF and with our children.

(a) Yes. I have come clean.
(b) Yes. The affair is completely over.
(c) Yes. I have the highest regard for FF whom I have betrayed.

I don't want to cancel the poly. If taking the poly will give FF peace of mind to begin trusting me again and to begin healing, then I do not want to cancel.


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Originally Posted by Learning2Cherish
The result was not joy but sorrow and regret. I betrayed and grievously injured my wife, our children, another family and our church leadership. I have brought much heart ache to us all that will carry a life-time of consequences.
Your affair is a cautionary tale for other BSs of the increased risk they face for affairs of their own. It is important for all BSs to realize this, or they will compound the suffering in their marriage greatly. You speak of lifelong consequences. That is true, but the consequences need not be all negative. You can have a fantastic marriage. It will require dedication on your part.

You write about your zeal for seeking involvement in ministries for the Lord. There is no more basic ministry than marriage and family. The Lord entrusts us with the care of these most valuable souls. It is our first ministry. Without properly attending to this trust, we are in no position to branch out. We must first care for this, so that we will not have a log in our eye that prevents seeing clearly to help others.

You need to accept full responsibility for your first ministry being in shambles. I know you see all kinds of reasons why, and you seek to couch your actions in ennobling motives. Yet I have to tell you, your affair was totally vanilla. I serve as an elder in my church. We have dealt with staff issues involving inappropriate contact with members. I know the solution to this sort of situation. Both families need to seek new churches. Needless to say, retention of staff is impossible, no matter who apologizes. It is for the good of the families, since remaining in the same church is harmful to their marriages.

You need to concentrate on your first ministry, to the exclusion of other ones. You can expect to have to do this for at least two years. That is how long it will take. Any plan of branching out to help others before you set right the conditions in your own life are highly inappropriate, and certainly not from the Lord. So, are you up to this calling?


me-65
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DS - 38, autistic, lives at home
DD - 37, married and on her own
DS - 32, still living with us
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Originally Posted by markos
I hope that we will soon see a post from you letting us know that you have ended contact with this woman for life and resigned from this ministry and that from now on your ministries will be performed in conjunction with your wife and that, from the endless ministry opportunities available, you will select only those that you are both enthusiastic about.

markos,
Yes, I am committed to NC for life. Though I've yet to accomplish the NC letter. I'm working on that with FF.
Yes, I have already resigned from all the ministries in which I volunteered. I have explained to our pastors why this is necessary and have asked their forgiveness.
Yes, any ministry in the future (and that is years away) will be with FF and only if she is enthusiastic about it. My only ministry right now is my wife and children and repairing what I have torn down.

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Originally Posted by mrEureka
There is no more basic ministry than marriage and family. The Lord entrusts us with the care of these most valuable souls. It is our first ministry... You need to accept full responsibility for your first ministry being in shambles... You need to concentrate on your first ministry, to the exclusion of other ones. You can expect to have to do this for at least two years. That is how long it will take. Any plan of branching out to help others before you set right the conditions in your own life are highly inappropriate, and certainly not from the Lord. So, are you up to this calling?

I agree with all you have said, mrEureka. Yes--I am up to this. I do not know what counsel our pastor will give us tonight but I hear the wisdom in your counsel. I am willing to walk this path.

Originally Posted by mrEureka
I know the solution to this sort of situation. Both families need to seek new churches. Needless to say, retention of staff is impossible, no matter who apologizes. It is for the good of the families, since remaining in the same church is harmful to their marriages.

Thank you for sharing what you have seen done at your church. Again, I hear the wisdom in this.

Originally Posted by mrEureka
but the consequences need not be all negative. You can have a fantastic marriage. It will require dedication on your part.

Thank you for this encouragement. This IS what I want.


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L2C,

If your pastor encourages your wife to reconcile with / forgive OW, are you going to run the other way and leave that church?

I hope she doesn't go through the trauma of church leadership giving her a marriage-destroying message. Many do.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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