I am now 1 month post Dday with my second marriage now almost 17 years. My first marriage ended 20 years ago with a serial cheater and I thought I had found my Mr. True Blue. Sadly the only part of the Blue was his issues with recurring depression and anxiety which runs in both sides of his family. Not known to me during our dating and courting phase. He was on top of the world of course. Roses constantly and cards and never ending attention. Then almost right after we tied the knot, he disconnected. He said he did not see intimacy in his parents lives (Dad had affair come to find out-big red flag now) And due to these issues, he has struggled with intimacy, attachment and social anxiety when placed in large settings.

I have worked hard to show love and be supportive through his issues. He has been an excellent provider and very supportive as I cared for my aging and dying parents for the good part of our marriage from the start. I also helped him with his only son who suffered from extreme anger issues due to a biological mother who was not involved at all for many years, due to her own depression and emotional issues. She went on with multiple marriages and children from each spouse, leaving no time for her son. I was blessed to share in co-parenting him and now watched him blossom after many difficult years into a wonderful caring young man and now husband and father of his own child.

Well at last when the nest was empty and our son was gone and raised (my two children were already out of the house early on) and my parents are sadly deceased, my Mr. Not so True Blue has an affair with his massage therapist who barely speaks English. I put together all the pieces over the past couple months, missing cash in large sums, separate credit card, false identity, found the Target "pay for minutes cell phone" with their love texts, pictures and calls, and new email alerts from Gucci and Tiffanys. He never bought me anything from those kinds of places, I am lucky to get a bottle of perfume anymore for a birthday and have to ask for it. The week prior to Dday, I was smelling the coffee and remembering the signs of my past cheater and his devious ways, not ready to believe I was reliving it again, with a man who was so upstanding and a church leader and pillar in the community by all outward appearances. Week before D day he denied everything and gave me, the "I love you but I am not in love with you talk".... My first marriage was with a gigolo almost from day one, this one is more scary and sinister in a way as to take and fake an identity to misled her and carry on a dual life and not leave a trail or so he thought! I confronted him 1 month ago now with the evidence and he said he had met with his counselor and was formulating a plan on how to cut it off and I could talk with him and he would confirm that. He was "feeling guilty" or feeling my heat as I was getting closer to the A fire and preparing to throw water on the burning flames! Note, the counselor who not confirm this with me as he told my spouse, he has no way of knowing if he is lying or not and will not get involved with these matters, that is for MC. I am following the MB advice and he is still living in our home in an attempt to heal this, in addition, his son and wife were here in the midst (but didn't reveal) though I was dying, then my sister and her family came right after. Didn't want to rock the boat with all the family drama and guests. But I was so despondent they had to know I was not myself. I am doing all the items suggested and the avoiding the LB but I am just not feeling any real love or connection from him. I suggest doing the videos or programs but I am the once taking all the initiative? That is not building back a life together, that is me hoping for reconciliation and doing all the work from what I see?

He said he does not want to throw away our 17 years of marriage and he is completely guilty and it had nothing to do with me. He was "just really lonely and depressed in a way he had never felt before". And "I should have not allowed this outside attention to draw me in." It was just, "an EA that lead to a PA" as they all seem to do. I do not want to ramble on here but I am so confused. How can I begin to track someone whose work is in technology and he knows all the ways to get around me and had not evidence on his cell or computers? He was keeping a secret identity with a phone that cannot be traced. That phone he destroyed in front of me but I took pictures of all the communication I could copy for evidence. I can buy a tracker for his car but I know he will be checking for that and I cannot afford a private investigator now after he has run up so much additional debt. He read two books on dealing with PA and sent the NC letter, but I am living in fear he is still in contact with her. He says go ahead and check everything I have, but when I did check his computer and Iphone initially after DDday, he had erased all the search history two different times and said when I confronted him on that, Apple told him to do that to keep it running more quickly? Also tried to tracking App for personal Iphone but he is on to that and just leaves it at work all day so I have no way of knowing what he does. He knows all that stuff so only a car GPS would really do the trick. But how do I install that and not get caught? I feel like I am going out of mind on some days.

I have read two different books, I Love You, but I Don't Trust You and After the Affair. I am going to IC and so is he, and we are supposed to start MC together but due to his two sessions a week with his therapist has not been able to get time in to go for MC with me. How do I build trust again with someone so devious and so sophisticated in all the ways to hide their tracks? I do not feel like I can trust one word he says. I am trying to reconcile but I feel like I am sleeping with the enemy. He is going through the motions to show me he wants to reconcile on some levels, but he certainly is not bending over backwards by any means. He took me away for a weekend because I suggested it and bought me two bouquets of Home Depot flowers which he grabbed after his counseling appts. I know he is still in "withdrawals" from what I have read, from his chemical dependency of the A and complains he is dealing with his depression. Showed him the information on that. However, He sleeps like a baby, and I can hardly sleep at all.

I can see reconciliation with a spouse who does not have a long history of mental health issues but with his ongoing depression (on 3 meds with no real relief?) and lack of intimacy and connection issues, how can I truly reconnect with someone who is perhaps only trying to have his cake and eat it too? Hard to give up all the his toys and nice life style we have built together to go out again on his own and start over again? Maybe she was "not the one" and he is waiting for the better one to come along? If this is as 'addictive" as MB says it is, how does someone with his issues ever stop now and be a normal monogamous person again?
I fear too many variables to heal and bring about true reconciliation. I love him so much, but I am so broken hearted and hurt, and I look at him with utter fear waiting for the next shoe to drop, as I do not really know this man anymore and fear maybe I never really did?

Hi Devastated, welcome to Marriage Builders. I am sorry for the reasons that have brought you here. GThis is a very, very long post and I don't have time to read this whole thing, so I am going to ask you some questions and then ask you to cut your post down to 3-4 short paragraphs so more people can help you. WE don't need this much information to GET it.

1. has your husband ended the affair?

2. have you exposed the affair to everyone?

I would stop checking and start snooping. IF he knows you are checking, he can just erase his history. In the middle of the night, I would take his phone and install spyware. Flexispy has a pretty good program that works on iphone. Additionally, you can put a GPS on his car. Landairandsea is supposed to be a good one and I think you can buy that locally. I just looked it up on the internet and it shows that Advanced Auto Parts and Sharper Image carry it.

Hello Melody,
Sorry for long post. He said he gave up and we sent NC letter together.

But then I questioned him initially he said how can I ever really know and he may have changed the letter? Now he is more open to my questioning though I see he is uncomfortable with it. Should I do polygraph? Feel that will only widen the gap again more. So confused.

I exposed to a couple close friends who are praying for me. Not his family they are not the supportive kind. Always blame the spouses for everything. Their kids are perfect, hold no blame in the breakdown of marriages in that family, dysfunction junction!

No point in installing spyware he is probably using computer at work now where I cannot check it. And remember he used a separate cell phone and fake identity, cunning one I have here, very disconcerting to say the least.

He says he has not contacted her or visa versa because the cell phone is To OW is destroyed and that was the only number she had. But he was his true self when he first went in for massages so she could figure that out and find him. And I get random hang up calls from blocked numbers looking for him almost daily.
And they had unprotected sex, pregnancy now a concern on his part. And he would not want to leave OW and the baby without support in his heart, I am sure. He wants to do the right thing, just not by me I am afraid.

Do you feel you have all the information? If not, I would get a polygraph. Once you have all the information, it should not be brought up again.


I would start with all your kids. Tell them what he did and with whom. Your close family members and friends should all be told too. The more people who know, the more people to support you and hold him accountable.


I don't agree with you here! He has erased his history so he is doing something on it. You need to SNEAK his phone away and sneak some spyware on it. Additionally, I would get a GPS on his car pronto.


He should not be concerned about pregnancy at all unless a sheriff shows up at his door with a court order. He needs to stay away from this woman altogether. The "right thing" is to leave her alone. Even if she were pregnant, the last thing she needs is some old creep hanging around so she can't find a husband to father her child. That's IF she is even pregnant, which you have no reason to believe.

The books that you cited do not have a plan for recovery. MArriage Builders DOES. Thre is a very, very narrow path to recovery from an affair. If you don't follow the steps outlined in Surviving an AFfair, your marriage won't make it.

Secondly, most marriage counselors are destructive to marriages. They have no earthly idea how to save a marriage and are downright destructive when there is an affair involved. They have an 84% failure rate and a higher personal divorce rate than the general population.

These are the necessary steps to save a marriage:

Thank you so much. I will proceed with those steps to give myself some peace of mind. I have asked so many questions but do not know if I am getting the whole truths or what he wants me to hear? Some answers were inconsistent with the questions. Like for example he said he drew the line and he never spent the night with her? But he took clothes and was going to stay over night on 4th of July weekend with a friend, and when I contacted the friend he was out of town and knew nothing about his coming over for the weekend? This was prior to the reveal on Dday. I asked him about that and he said he didn't intend to spend the night he was coming home. Think the disclosure is still filled with more lies. I think he still is covering his tracks in some areas.

How can you get someone to do a full disclosure when they are probably still in denial about it anyway? When in some ways they appear they are more upset that they were caught, than that they are about being remorseful for what they have done to the WS. His lack of empathy on most days is so disturbing. I feel I am dealing with a robot. Need to order that book as well. Feel so discouraged and resources are being depleted quickly. Thanks.

He evidently thinks he is talking to a rock, or some other inanimate object with no reasoning ability. Typical wayward behavior. Yes, he spent the night with her.

Sure he is. He is protecting his own selfish interests. And those of his OW. (BTW, have you exposed this affair to her employer? I am quite certain that her employer does not promote sexual affairs between masseurs and their clients. That changes a legitimate massage spa to a massage parlor of the 'wink wink' kind.

You make a polygraph part of your requirements for recovery of the marriage.


This is typical behavior of a wayward.

Check amazon.com - they may have a used copy that you can order to get started. The book has been updated, but the original will get you on the way. Please get the book asap.

I would first expose his affair to everyone. That will go a long way in bursting his affair bubble. I don't think his affair has ended, though, I think he has gone further underground, which is why you must get on the stick here and do some snooping.

Do that, and then find a good polygraph tester in your area. Set up an appointment. Two days before the test, inform him of the appointment, telling him you are giving him one last chance to prove he is being truthful. Hand him a list of all of your questions and tell him he has ONE LAST CHANCE to come clean before the test but that you fully expect him to pass the test after that. He will first agree, then he will balk and threaten you, and when he sees you are serious, he will begin singing like a canary!

She needs to get the NEW version because there are a lot of revisions in SAA. The new version is right here: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6070_sa.html

Thank you Melody and MartialBliss. I intend to order that new version of the book and get the ammo I need to fight this war. I like the idea about the polygraph. Smart tactic! So hard to think clearly when you are in pain and just trying to keep your head above water each day. Thanks so much. I am doing all I can to save this, but sadly why if like we feel we are the only one doing the real fighting? I know the answer, I am not under the influence of the OW and he is, so his logic and emotions are far from his home and his family still. He talks the talk about this being over, but many things show me he is not walking the walk in this effort to reconcile.

First step is to expose the affair, my friend. That will do more good for your marriage than anything else you have done.

If you want to truly make sure this affair is killed, you're going to need to do some work. Exposure of the affair is the first order of business. You need to expose the affair to his family, your family and the Ho's employer. Have you seen the exposure letters on this site? Use them as a template. Run your exposure letters past us before you send them.

Hell has to come down on OW - right now, she's feeling pretty good about herself. Making a man feel good, he makes HER feel good...um, NO. That's coming to an end.

And I'm going to assume that you will be using MB to recover your marriage - ie, don't ever, EVER ALLOW A WOMAN TO PUT HER HANDS ON YOUR HUSBAND. Therapeutic, medical or otherwise.

I SO AGREE! I cannot believe our spouses are so foolish and so na�ve to think they will not get caught, but then many times this goes on for years as I have read. I have taken some of the steps as suggested, but may not expose it to his family as they are so unsupportive and would probably secretly tell him he needs to enjoy his life, heck they do! All of them are pretty messed up and have done the same things except one that I am aware of. His oldest sister who may be my only ally there.

Regarding the OW, he said he changed his identity to establish the relationship once she started coming on to him apparently. She gave him her "private cell to book appointments to meet his schedule demands"! LOL The establishment is not owned by primary English speaking natives and I do not want my identity or his real identity revealed to her again just in case she has not truly connected the dots to who he "was" when he first went in for massages and who he "became" in order to carry of the A.
Should I report this to the police for solicitation? He said she did not proposition her, but I think that is possibly another lie? My hairdresser told me that these ladies are famous for offering "happy endings" to any male customer so inclined. The wink wink operation you were referring to.

I want hell to rain down on her, he thinks she was an innocent party as was I, and he "deceived her" as well, but letting her think he was divorced and available for a relationship of that kind to develop. Is this just a line of BS I am being fed? Do not know what to believe of course. I want to take the necessary steps but do not want to open a can of worms and have her banging on my door and poisoning my dog doing a FATAL ATTRACTION on me. Scared of her and what she might do to be honest. If he has cut it off, I have taken away her Big Sugar Daddy with the $100 tips and I am sure she wants revenge. How should I proceed? Remember I am still getting hang up phone calls from blocked numbers all the time. She really may be looking for him.

You need to go pay that young lady a visit PRONTO and expose your husband's identity to her while you report this to the salon owner. Let them know you are strongly considering turning them into the district attorney under suspicion of prostitution. They will put a stop to her harassment! It is obvious she is stalking you now, so you need to get this all out into the open before it gets worse.

I would not forewarn your husband and just see if TELLS you about the contact. That should give you an indication if they are still in contact.

Did you expose the affair like we suggested?

She needs to be very, very afraid of you. When you go to visit her, I would leave your pistol in the car just in case you lose your temper. Do you have a friend who can go with you? A grown son?

Thank you for your input. I am getting conflicting information on contacting the OW. Many of the books I have read say do not do this as they will lie, you will accomplish nothing and it will serve no purpose. She barely speaks English from the texts I read, so how can I effectively communicate to her that she is to stay away from my H and if she has any idea of restarting this A I will turn her in to the State etc and her employer. Would love to wring her little neck but I can see no purpose in it. Just want to be sure my H is not seeing her or this attempt to reconcile is over!

Thanks for the links and encouragement to do this. I am trying to read everything and follow all the advice as well as order all the necessary tools to save this marriage. When other BS refer to taking the A "underground" what exactly are the signs? and what do I look for now? I am watching bank accounts, credit card activity etc. But he did everything in cash the first time around, and moved monies around very discreetly. Not sure he is not getting bills or mail at his office that I do see. Have a mole in his workplace trying to help me be on the lookout for any nefarious activities.

He used the disposable phone the first time as well, so purchasing the phone spyware seems senseless. I did it thinking he may be sending texts or IM's that I could capture and he is deleting but he is very savvy to all this technology so I am sure he would use a different SIM card etc. Have not installed yet, thinking of saving $ for other things. Put on a keylogger but nothing so far. But she was not a computer person from what he said.

How do I look for the signs of underground activity when he was really crafty the first time around. Only large ATM withdrawals were my clue over a period of may months? But he could take out of loan or cash advance from a credit card in his name and have statement sent to his office and I would never know? So stressful playing detective. Which VAR and GPS are the best? Thanks so much.

This almost is not worth the effort and the stress. How can you build back trust with someone who has a lifelong history of depression? And will never be "happy" in his current state and now tasted the nectar of the god and will be craving it now forever? I am getting very discouraged. I have faith but not in him. I feel he has taken this underground. I just want to quit trying. So heartbroken.