I would like to revisit the passion topic. You know that head over heels, sexual desire/chemistry, "in love" feeling, can't wait to touch you/be with you thing, intense emotional feeling that supposedly most dating relationships start with. We know most affairs start with those type of feelings but....<P>How important is it for success in marriage and success in sexual intimacy in marriage? I am trying to answer this for myself and my situation. My wife and I started as friends, became best friends and I definitely fell in love with her and was passionate about her. But, I remember the feeling that she was not passionate about me or "head over heels". She loved me but it was more like companionate love without ever having that initial sexual chemistry/desire. Therefore, our sexual intimacy in our marriage (and b4) was bad and inconsistency. I regret not seeking outside assistance to resolve it, because when she was hit with that feeling towards OM, she dove right in. <P>Can a different type of passion be cultivated? Like Harley states, can you meet all the emotional needs and get the spouse to be in romantic love with you and find you irresistable? Or like Airheart posted once, he was not sure if he ever had that feeling for his spouse and could he really get it back if it was not there in the first place. (that's my wife's line too).

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I would like to revisit the passion topic. You know that head over heels, sexual desire/chemistry, "in love" feeling, can't wait to touch you/be with you thing, intense emotional feeling that supposedly most dating relationships start with.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Let's not and say we did... <P>Seriously, it always comes down to this question for me. Lately I've been getting advice that maybe my situation is hopeless and that I should separate from my wife. That it's not fair to my wife or me to remain in the situation we have. Really, I have no idea what to do anymore and I feel at the end of my rope.<P>In that "Harley's methods" thread that Dazed&Confused started, K told me all I had to do was deconstruct my affair and figure out what subtle things the OW did and then get my wife on board... forgive me for being cynical but... YEAH RIGHT! Believe me, I've been over and over my affair; deconstructed it, reverse engineered it, you name it... I don't think that's gonna do it for us.<P>It's not just about emotional needs. They're alot of the equation, but there's more to it. What about loving the other person for what they have in themselves, not just what they do to/for you. Things like sense of humor, intelligence, hair, dress style, etc. etc. etc....<P>Sorry, just not in the greatest mood right now.<P>--andy<P>

izzy,<P>I think it is possible to keep a large portion of that passion going during a marriage. My H and I had it and STILL have it. But, because of his ongoing affair, we are separated and aren't having it, if you know what I mean.<P>post discovery and during the 3 mos. separation, we were still passionate with each other. He lef 1 1/2 wweks ago and we are hardkly communicating. I know if I wanted, he would still be intimate with me. I WANT him, but don't want to share, so we probably won't be enjoying that passion.<P>It is strange that 2 peopl, such as my H and I, can ignite such passion in bed. During all of this, my zeal for the sex never went away. I wondered, and discussed with my counsleor my fear that I muight get impotent over disgust and anger about the affair. I was concerned about it, but it never happened. <P>My H and I have had a very positively intense love for each other. We ahve had a great life together. Hard to believe, but 2 years ago, I took H and 20 of his friends and closest relatives on a cruise to the Bahamas for H's 50th birthday - I paid for it all!!!! We were so happy then.<P>I know we still have love for each other. Mine is here on my sleeve. I think his is still there, but hidden behind the anger he has for my EA right after the cruise (my Dad had major stroke, etc.).<P>I think these are struggles after affairs to put things back in order. I think it would be a heck of a lot harder to do if the passion was never there. But, I don't hink it is impossible. <P>I read Torn Asunder by Dave carder. In this book, he has a graph of the in-love feelings during the affair. It looks like a bell-graph from high school math. I think it is just like that when you first fell in love with your spouse.<P>Since most allof us have known our spouses for a ling time, I don't think you can re-match that initial peak when you first discovered love for each other.<P>But, as a person who was a betrayer, I can only tell you my personal experience - I got back every bit of love for my H. I love him very much, and it's very intense again.<P>Problem here is that he doesn't feel the same way about me - we are out of sync. I moved to a planAplanB to protect the love I have for him since his affair is on-going now over 8 mos.<P>Izzy, I thihnk you and your W can cultivate some passion in your lives. I f there are embers lurking, there can be a raging fire with some attention and fuel!!<P>Roll Me Away

Airheart,<P>I just read your post and sorry you are so down right now. You have endured alot!<P>I have a question for you - Were you ever in love and feel passionately toward your wife?<P>Roll Me Away

RMA -- I don't have a lot of time right now... the short answer is no. not really.

airheart,<P>If you havn't already I think you should get Dr. Frank Pittman's book "Private Lies".<BR>It has helped me to understand much and I believe it would help you AND your wife.<P>Hang in there Buddy!

Passion is important and was a major factor in my H affair.<P>We were very naive, ignorant lovers, both of us. This is something we openly realize and admit. We did it all wrong for 14 years.<P>I had limited non-concentual experience before, My H had no other sexual experience before me. We married young and our only knowledge was clinical and trial and error.<P>I did not find fulfillment and after a while didn't even find pleasure. My H was selfish (from ignorance). Childbirth complications caused more problems and we found out later that Birthcontrol Pills were actually stifling me.<P>My lack of fulfillment brought about his lack of interest/my lack of interest. I perceived his reaction as lack of attraction (there was some of that too, but probably wouldn't have been if I had satisfied him sexually)<P>I never turned him away, but I didn't enjoy it. He became insecure, began to wonder if he could satisfy a woman. He also began to allow himself to think more and more about how sex would be with someone else because he had never experienced sex with any but me and that hadn't that good.<P>Along came other woman who filled him with compliments about his body, something I didn't do because I felt so bad about mine (so on and so forth, it begins to interact and get very complicated). He obsesses more about whether he can satisfy another woman and what it would be like. She makes it obvious to him that she is willing. <P>That is how the affair started and then turned emotional for him so he ended it.<P>We literally had to learn how to do it right. A book called the Act of Marriage helped me. I got it in a Christian Book Store.<P>It sometimes hurt that he basically learned how to please me from another woman. I tend to feel she has to get credit for that.<P>We have, however, rekindled the passion we felt when were were trying to keep from having sex before we were married, but now we get to follow through.<P>It is going to be imperative for my to continue to keep our marriage exciting for him. I have had to realize that excitement is a very strong need for my husband that is just the way he is.

essyboo,<P>I hear you about the inexperience and the know how regarding intimacy, I know I did not have any real experience (only high school/early college physical action not emotional). My question though for you is..you and your husband still had that chemistry and desire for each other in the beginning, right? Then the lack of knowledge led to problems, correct? I have friends who married at around 24 (both virgins) and they said their first year of sex was bad and awkward, but they worked on it with books/videos/toys to get it better. I have read that if passion that couples have when they start dating is not consumated before marriage (which is morally and probably the correct way to go) it sometimes is difficult to then act on it after marriage sorta like mental blocks or like you said uncertainty of what to do. Hope all continues well for you, it sounds very positive for you both.

Nevermind.<p>[This message has been edited by Connor (edited November 07, 1999).]

Airheart,<BR>You sound like me. I'm pretty sure I love(d) my w but not passionately as I am afraid of emotion as far as I can tell. My w said that she really missed that passion althought I don't remeber her showing me much either.<P>I guess I'm questioning everything now.

I'll just describe my feelings towards my wife because I do have a (very strong) passion for her, which is what makes her affair so difficult.<P>For me, it really was "love at first sight" when I met my W. It was at a study group where I arrived late and the only chair was next to hers. After sitting next to her for about 15-20 minutes and sharing a book with her (found myself staring at her fingers instead of the words), I was going crazy. I knew I had to talk to her and didn't really want to because, being divorced for a number of years and happily single, I wasn't looking for an intimate relationship. Actually tried to talk myself out of doing this, but failed and ended up hitting on her, successfully as it turned out. For my W, it wasn't love at first sight, as she at first thought I was just another one of those weirdos she tends to attract. But I courted her like crazy, sent her poems by email, the whole nine yards, until she DID fall in love with me. And when she did, she seemed to fall pretty hard too. As a result of our mutual passion (this was while we were still courting) we had the best sex that I'D ever had in my life. In fact, our relationship reawakened my sexuality and I think I felt strongly passionate for maybe the first time in my life.<P>Her passion for me started fading when we got engaged and continued to fade after we were married until it seems pretty much gone by now. (She says she still loves me, but I can see that she's pretty much lost her sexual interest in me, and I know it's because of her affair.) My passion for her remains as strong as it ever was, which is why her affair is driving me crazy.<P>The downside of feeling this kind of passions for someone, especially in an intimate relationship, is that it can easily turn from desire into anger. I have never been anywhere NEAR as angry at anyone else as I have been towards my wife. I have RAGED at her (only verbally never physically) and called her terrible names, mainly because of my knowledge of her affair, and the dampening effect it's had on our sex life.<P>Well, that's it. This is what my experience of passion has been like. Regards and blessings,<P>--Wex