Yes I am aware of secret cells and all of the subterfuge that affairs end up entailing. If that is the case then I know there is no use. I won't live like that, I know that the truth eventually always comes out.

He has to face it and make a choice. I get it where there is a will there is always a way. If there is a "will" on his end they are free to have their way.

Thanks for answering all my questions, badway. I thought I had a real good handle for your situation and then you said some things that threw me off. The first of which is that you heard their conversation on the VAR and it was friendly, but NOT intimate. Do you have actual evidence that this is a romantic relationship? I GET that it is inappropriate, but what did you hear?

Since she works at a location 3 hours away, will they EVER cross each others path in the future?

How did they meet?

Do you have any spy resources in place that he DOESN'T KNOW about?

badway, in your first post above you highlighted the issue of the business trip and the 3,000 dollars.

You did that for a reason. You seemed at that point to be using those things as indicators that your H was having an affair. However, for some reason you seem now to be denying any connection between the business trip and the affair. You seem to be saying that the business trip was an entirely legitimate working trip, at which OW was not present. I am puzzled then as to why you brought it up in your first post. Could explain why you thought it was significant?

Also, what do you think the $3,000 was really used for? Have you been given this money back? I think it was used to buy gifts or pay for hotel rooms with OW. Your H used that cash because he did not want to draw it out of his bank account and leave a paper trail. Do you believe the story about his plan to disappear or do you think it was used for the affair?

I don't think they hooked up when his time was unaccounted for because they were on the phone I can see where he was and where she was. It does not match up and an 30 minutes or an hour is not enough time for them to hook up.

On the night he was away, her cell locations were not close enough for them to have met up his were pinged right in line with what they should have been.

My text records of his texts to me and his stated schedule along with reconstructed texts and cell records don't put them in the same area on any days I can't account for his time.

If it were there I'd see it. As I said a PA actually makes more sense in lots of ways logically. An EA hurts because their was sharing and a secret that may have never been fully realized.
They met a few years ago, I met her at that time. They worked on a project together. I met her boyfriend at a dinner. Since then he has overseen projects of hers. He does not have much unaccounted for downtime. I can track his car and it does not lead me to a PA. If they did find a way to hook up it will come out. I am ready for answers so if putting them both on the hotseat is the way to get them then I want to go in loaded with all my ducks in a row.

I still don't understand why you brought it up at all, badway. If he was where he says he was, without her, and you already knew that, why did you mention this trip in your first post?

Again, what about the money?

badway, I keep getting the impression that you are ready to end your marriage, as opposed to fighting for it. Are you in, or are you out to save your marriage? Understand - we know that not every marriage can be saved. But I have gotten the impression from you first post that you are aware of the affair and are planning the softest landing for YOU, alone. Am I wrong?

Yes, where there's a will, there's a way. The same can be said for you. What say you? Are you in for trying to save your marriage, or are you out?

I realize that in my initial post I posted all the raw data. I had processed much of it and was questioning was it an EA even. I had ruled PA out in my mind. For the type of person my spouse is/was an EA is very big. He doesn't open up to people. So their conversations were emotionally intimate, he was talking to her and opening up about how he was feeling. He was yelling at me and blaming me for having felt that way.

He was sharing his day with her and talking about his hobbies (things that I can't share with him unless he lets me and he was specifically excluding me)

As for the money, it magically reappeared back to where it was. He didn't say he put it back and I haven't mentioned I noticed yet.

He recently told me he was so very sorry and wants to work on making our marriage better than ever. I told him I want that but it will take work, I want him to agree to work the MB plan to mend our marriage and build a solid foundation.

If he will do that I am willing to stick it out.

Some of the questions probing the "what if" situations make me feel like, there will always be questions and only I can decide when and if I trust this man again. So if you told me I will spend the rest of my life with him feeling like a junior detective buying spy programs for his phone. I wouldn't want to live like I have been the past few months.

Does any of that make sense or clarify? I tried to give all the data (and perhaps overloaded you all with all of the data that led me down the path so I felt it important to show how it unfolded for me). Being new to forums and while attempting to give a complete picture I left blanks.

I appreciate all of your thoughtful questions and replies because if there is something I need to see and face I WANT to see it.

In the continuum of situations that get discussed here, you may be one of the fortunate ones, IF:

- WH's involvement really was only an EA
- like many males, he was content on getting some ENs from you, some from OW (Analogy: WWs want to order only one item from the menu; WHs often prefer an EN buffet.)
- WH has had (or soon will have) that "What the HELL was I thinking?" moment.

It is unclear what level of confrontation you have had with WH. (It's obvious you haven't yet started preparing an exposure tsunami.) Is he aware of, from your overt actions, your knowledge of his activities? Could he have discovered your suspicions in some other way? Replacing the money seems like an indication of his awareness.

Do NOT cease your snooping and prepping. He MIGHT be building up a cover-his-butt defense, with no intention of terminating his EA.

When you and he eventually have that face-to-face, it would be helpful to your situation to hand him a copy of SAA and HNHN to start the recovery process.

Being new to posting an in an attempt to paint the entire picture of how I've pieced the details together.

The facts that I could confront him on (I had only just found this site and didn't know how to properly confront him) were just the money and the phone calls (building slowly, gaining intensity and frequency and then tapering as he started acting normal)

The confrontation about the money happened by accident. I went to lock my spare watch and a diamond ring in the wall safe. He heard me and asked what I was doing. He seemed odd, when I opened the safe I noticed the container where the stack of money I kept was moved so I looked in it. At that point I calmly asked where the money went. He didn't want to explain, then he said he was planning on leaving if things didn't get better and having cash to just leave and not use a credit card made him feel better. I told him to keep it. If that pitiful amount made him feel safe I really didn't care. I did wonder if he was using it to fund an affair. We talked about it and he told me he had taken it a month or so before I discovered it. He said it was all still there locked in his desk. He said my discovery made him feel ashamed and silly. I told him to keep it...A short time after I found the money placed back where it was.

We kept making small steps towards things getting better. He did a lot of work on some of his deep issues. We started making real efforts at being connected and spending quality time together. Going to church together and he began helping in my charity work and joining me in it.

I still felt some rumblings that not everything was quite right. That is when I went into full investigate mode. It was really easy. He has several VAR's laying around my phone bill is set up to give detailed billing I installed "child track" apps on his phone...The phone bill and the detail along with what I heard from his end of the phone conversations while it was upsetting it wasn't romantic. It was a lot of sharing and my husband talking openly to a friend. It hurt because I was that friend. He DID say that he sensed a change in me (I had been using the technique outlined here to work on just me without pushing him yet) and low and behold it started working. I knew there was much to be done. I was trying to hang onto this roller coaster of emotions for too long and the work is intense and hard when it is one sided and you are in "giver" mode all the time and their "taker" is a childish 2 year old.

So I sat with the data I collected and read more (still not thinking much of the rules really applied to me)... We were laying in the dark and talking and both calm. And I said "when were you planning on telling me about your "friendship" with OW?" His heart started pounding and he paused and said I guess never. I asked why? He said I needed to talk to someone and since I blamed you, you were the last person I could talk to. He has worked on projects with her over the years providing guidance. The last time he saw her in person was about a year ago. She does work on projects and request his input and he started talking to her in a mentor capacity. They then went on to talk about personal stuff. Never seemed to cross the line (from what I heard) and what he said.

He does not know the extent of my snooping, when I told him I saw all the phone calls on our bill (he was unaware that a detailed history can be accessed) that was all I told him I had done, along with a reverse cell lookup.

At the time I was proud of how well I handled it, now I realize I wasn't fully prepared and should have kept reading. I'm shocked I haven't exploded a million times as I uncovered each little thing. The fights were near constant at one point.

The only little thing that is a big thing IMO is the phone contact. It was every day before work, during lunch some days and after work. He expressed shame, and sorrow and regret. He told me that he knows that he has to work to rebuild my trust. He has said he will do whatever it takes to make our marriage better and stronger than ever. But it seems that he things some magic and spontaneous healing has occurred. So I need clarity for those who have been there (and I am looking for a MB friendly counselor) as to how to properly asses and deal with the foundation issues that got us here.

I am not worried about "a soft landing" in case of Divorce. Honestly money is the last issue we have. Half of his annual salary is the equivalent of hitting the lotto, so half of our assets plus alimony equals a "soft landing" if soft is lined with money. I have lived my whole life with money and it has not equaled happiness...Just money and things. How I hate things right now, I have been getting rid of all unneeded unused things. I furnished a new home for Habitat with "extra" furniture, bedding and even dishes and small appliances. It was all extra stuff I had in our oversize home. I've taken extra clothes to the women's shelter even extra things like perfume and toiletries. That has been a good positive for me, I know I am blessed there. That has truly been my only light lately is reaching out and helping others.

So I have kept my snooping up. I know there is so much work to be done. I gave him the opportunity to come completely clean (once and for all or no forgiveness if it comes to light later). He said he should have gone to a therapist or spoken to a male friend but he chose wrong and he deeply regrets his actions and how deeply they hurt me.

He has said he will do whatever it takes to make our marriage better and stronger than ever.

Good! Now you can give him the good news that it will only require three things from him, to justly compensate you for your willingness not to throw him out.

1) No Contact with OW for life, documented by the writing (by him) and approval and mailing (by you) of a No Contact Letter. No contact means:

- no "mentoring";
- no early morning phone calls;
- no e-mail exchanges
- no NOTHING!

2) Adequate Extraordinary Precautions to ensure #1 above. You will need open access to his phone(s), email, financial accounts, everything. When you say, "Let me check your phone," he will have to break a leg in his hurry to place it in your hands.

3) Committing to following your selected Infidelity Recovery Program.

Give him the three requirements. If his reaction is anything BUT "Yes, agreed, when do we get started?", he's lying about the "whatever it takes" emotion. You will then know where you stand.

You've mentioned your wealth repeatedly in your posts. May I ask why? Does it have any relevance to your husband's affair?

Since you have the money why not hire a PI?

Jessica:

You are right it has no relevance: My years of insecurity and money noise and shame are glaring out. It does not matter to me any longer but it seems to matter to him (he seemed to be angry that it hasn't made him happier). So there is a residual effect.

I did seem to feel a need to clarify it was not an issue in fights or ongoing problem in our marriage. But in this case not relevant. I do have to own my hang ups about thinking that many women are drawn to the man he has become. The change in behavior coincided with a huge career move and salary change so it is at the forefront of "what is different".

If I feel like one is needed I won't hesitate to hire one. I've never ruled that out. There is so much you can figure out alone that buying some software and the help of an IT guy does the trick.

I've not ruled a PI out. I've not ruled anything out. Thanks for the suggestion.

This is exactly what feels like the right path to me. This is what I have come to figure out it will take for me to feel like he is committed. I won't settle for less.

What path is that? What are you going to do?

Sorry BrainHurts, I was responding to this. This feels like the right path to me.

All of you who have given advice and feedback have helped me sort my very confused thoughts and emotions. It is a confusing time.

Please follow this path. I didn't have this advice 6 years ago. My story started out SO similarly to yours - and you can see from my signature how that turned out.

badway, I just wanted to note that this is not a reliable way to track the OW. I say that because on my own cellphone log it always shows my FWH's calls as originating from CA. It also shows the destination as CA whenever I call him. We actually live 751 miles away from CA and have not been there for years.

The reason the cellphone log shows CA is because he has a San Diego phone number.

That may also be the case with your cell phone bill and OW.


I also think his explanation of just wanting to disappear with 3K in cash that he stole from the safe does not sound logical or believable.


I would add a poly to NG's list of 3 things making it four things. He needs to prove to you his honesty about this relationship so that you do not have doubts for the rest of your life. If your WH refuses and/or has any reason why he would not be willing to take a poly to reassure you...



Your gut was telling you something to cause you to reach out for help here. Always listen to your gut.

The Aftermath
When things die down somewhat, it is important that you present a PLAN to your WS for recovery. The next step is to lead your marriage out of the ditch.

First step is to DEMAND your spouse end the affair.



Ask him/her to send a no contact letter to the OP that is written together, approved by you and mailed together. [template below from SAA]

Set her down and explain to her that you want to have a romantic, loving, SAFE marriage and that you won�t stay in a loveless marriage. Tell her you are willing to give her an opportunity to earn your forgiveness. In order for the marriage to recover, certain things have to happen. This is what it will take to keep you interested:

1. end all contact with the OM for life

2. no more nights apart or going out without each other - create a healthy, integrated lifestyle

3. complete transparency - cell phone passwords, etc

4. no more opposite sex friendships

5. complete honesty about her affair<s> � passing a polygraph

6. commit to the Marriage Builders program for recovery as outlined in the book Surviving an Affair.

Tell her "this is what it will take to keep me in this marriage." Whether your marriage ends up with success or failure will depend almost entirely on her willingness and ability to make radical changes. Her lifestyle must become absolutely transparent, holding nothing back. She is in no position to negotiate when it comes to extraordinary precautions, because those precautions are designed to prevent another affair and help you feel safe. She must also meet your emotional needs in a way that until now she has failed. Unless she makes a 180 degree turn in her approach to what it means to be a wife, your marriage won't recover, it will be a crippled version of your pre-affair marriage.

You have nothing to lose and everything to gain by taking this approach, because if she won't do these things, you will have lost nothing except a loveless, abusive marriage.

Unless you use this program to create a much better marriage than the one you had before the affair, you are likely looking at repeat affairs. So don't even think you can get away with sweeping the affair under the rug and going back to what you had before. What you had before led to the affair!