I went on a date with my 21-year old volunteer-partner after she asked me out on facebook!
The party was on the couryard of a medieval castle surrounded by moats in the middle of nature! Some 1500 people were attending and put their tents near the water as the party was non-stop, whole weekend.

The date did not went as planned as the organiser asked us to help out as they were running out of parking space and volunteers. So we put on a security vest, took post at the road & guided arrivals in the middle of the night.
It was very quite and very dark.

We had a candle, 2 cocktails and discussed Russian literature, her studies, her family and why we always end up helping out others.
She then decided she wanted to help out the organiser, took charge of the team of 30 adult volunteers for the rest of the weekend!
I drove her home sunday evening, she was asleep on the backseat as she worked non-stop from saturday night to sunday afternoon.

That sounds great

My projectfriend came to my door crying.

Her boyfriend busted her lovebank two times last week.
He had two opportunities to hit her needs big time and managed to make it even worse. *sigh*

His behaviour (as reported by her) did strike me:
It's the last 2 weeks of work before the holidays and things are real hectic at work. He knows his gf has been struggling the last couple of months and he is aware his relationship is in peril...

HE IS STALLING THE PROBLEM UNTIL HIS HOLIDAY.
but instead of comforting her and postponing the discussion formally... he IGNORES the problem!

and eventually he ignored her this week.

BIG mistake as my projectfriend's core childhood wound is the rejection/neglect of her father.
She said she exploded with anger and threw her phone at the wall. He got her on her "electric fence" by text-message!!! when all he had to do was to validate her feelings to make a HUGE love-deposit.

Postponing until holiday*
I did that too in my last relationship.
Lesson learned (again)

I think I am starting to grasp the psychology behind my projectfriends behaviour too (after knowing her for 5 years)

She tried her best to CONTROL her boyfriend (by being dominant) and to steer him away from her biggest FEAR which is REJECTION. Now she is mature enough to lower her defences and to release control, he (unknowingly) drives her straight into her electric fence resulting in ANGER.

Her top emotional need is VALIDATION
yet I know it is not listed here... or is it?

Dr Harley calls it Admiration.

Admiration scores high on my personal list of EN too but
I think there is a slight difference between the type of admiration she needs and I need.

She needs the comforting type of admiration, the validation of emotions: "it's normal & ok to feel like you do in that situation".
While I need comfirmation of my actions and decisions in the long term. "I think you have made the right decision", "that was a good move".
:-)

Anyway, apparently I applied these 5 steps naturally:
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-squeaky-wheel/201106/the-antidote-anger-and-frustration

I might not be as bad as I think in human interaction.

Two weeks of holiday� week 1

My projectfriend ended her relationship.

The two dates I 'scored' at the party did not want to meet.
One said I was 'too courtious' to her taste,
the other one confessed she was in a relationship (LOL).
So far on trying to date 30-somethings�

A 25-yr old friend which I've known well from the music scene, quit her REBOUND relationship.
6 years ago I adviced her to drop 2 years of art-college and to study 5 yrs of psychology at uni instead .
She graduated with honours 2 months ago.

Nevertheless, we have always had a 'head-to-head' bond as she is very intelligent,
yet wanted to explore the edges of what is socially exceptable:
Hooked up with wrong characters, drugdealers, addicts, anti-social personalities etc.
Skipped classes to attend medicine and neuro-psychology classes on the side�
to hand in papers on the benefits of using illegal drugs to treat depression in the psy-department.

I always challenged her academic and romantic choices,
throwing disrespectful judgements at her everytime we met at a party. Guess we were eachothers dislikers for 6 years�

The last year she went through some personal change. Cleaned up her act after her internship at a psychiatric ward.

Last week we ended up at her place with some friends and we had 8-hour a non-stop conversation.
We both dropped our defenses for the first time and shared the prejudices/resentments we had with eachothers behaviour the past 6 years� shared the admiration we had for eachother too.

After the radical honesty and emotional catharsis, instinct took over and we ended up in bed.
We had the most incredible sex we've experienced in our lives. We spend the rest of the week together.

Not very MB-like.
The energy between us is incredible, yet very scary for me as it opened up the can of worms that my ex left me�

I am abroad this week with friends, dealing with my newly surfaced aftermath of my ex.
I am not ready at all, she knows.

Gerald you are great at meeting women.
But what are you looking for long term?

Fascinating thread - nice to see another MB journey unfold.

I am new to these principles but I have found them incredibly helpful.

My picker has been completely off my whole adult life.
I can see that now.

I had no idea what elements created a healthy long-term relationship/marriage.

Although most of the emotional needs I intuitively understood - my problem area was really the love busters.

I also never chose any man who would have ever been able to commit to POJA, even though if I would have been introduced to this concept I would have agreed happily to it. It has been more of a shock that I am allowed to be enthusiastically happy about mutual decisions. Most of the time I have tried to make sure the man I am with is happy. POJA has been a wonderful discovery.

Gerold it is nice to see someone around my age taking these principles to heart. It would seem we have a similar back ground too. I went to an outdoor party recently and I swear it is the last one I will go to. Personally I have had enough of that scene now. Instead of dancing I sat around the fire counselling people!

I am certain if I would have been introduced to these principles in my teens I would have got them. I was definitely different from my peers and I can see I had more of a buyers mentality. But I had no guidance what-so-ever and I adopted the renters and freeloaders ways out of cultural conditioning.

The thought of dating 30 people is a bit much though! Like you have mentioned it's not really something that is in European culture.

Thanks for your honest posts.

Another thing the marriage builders principles have given me is a real sense that it is possible to create what my heart desires.

I had really lost hope inside that this was possible. Now I feel I have been introduced to tools that will really work.

Even if I have only currently looked at the instruction manual!

The thought of going out on a date with 30 people may be daunting. But if you count group dates you probably have been out with 30 potential partners before. If there was something that stood out about one it would catch your attention.

Thanks Livy, glad another European discovered MB!
Please do not take me as an example of MB-principles, It is hard to translate them to "European"
That is why I do lengthy posts.
I failed the MB principles on dating last week�

I am terrible at meeting NEW people, Jedi
My problem is that I am trying too hard to sell myself.
That makes me look insecure and needy to strangers.
My future plans are to discover my own emotional needs first
and to learn how I my behaviour changes when they are not met.

We do not have a real dating culture in my country.
(Strangers hardly go for coffee-meetup's)
In order to have a real date, people have to 'know' you first.
Meaning you have to have friends in common and go on group dates really.
Dates can be selected from this pool of friends.
(But then things usually go fast from there as you probably noticed)

So far I dated 8 women in 8 months� 2 of those were NEW people.
The rest I have known FOR YEARS from the music scene or through friends.
Some of these dates are not even relationship material!

NewEveryDay: I do have my reservations about group dates � It might be great to meet people and have fun.
But it is not that good in order to discover your own emotional needs or those of others.
Conversations are casual and superficial most of the time.
People tend to hide in a group, some play a role.

Psychology-girl and I have been negotiating last night through internet on how to take a step back now.
We discovered there is chemistry between us and that I am still suffering from the fallout from my previous relationship.
She does not want to become my rebound & neither do I.

We have been brainstorming boundaries over the internet� POJA-style!
(I did not need to explain!)
Goal: dating, discovering emotional needs without ending up in bed together.

Enthousiastic (external) boundary 1: Future dates in company of other people.

Backup plan: 4 weeks of no contact if we end up in bed again.

Sleeping around seems to be the norm these days.

Discovering emotional needs without ending up in bed together is difficult! It is not what many people are used to. I think Europe's sexual liberation has caused some pretty major issues.

As most people are expecting to end up in bed fast,
holding back on physical needs (as a single guy),
tends to get weird while dating over a longer period here in Western Europe.

You can explain your true intensions all you want,
perceived rejection is right around the corner...
I even had my hetero sexuality questioned after a date that went very well.

Wait, wait, wait...


So, are you stating that due to "cultural differences" between the States and European countries that human relationship psychology doesn't apply... but, "rebound relationships" are exempt and universal?



This program is about human behavior, not nation of origin or culture. A statement like "MB doesn't translate into European" is patently ridiculous. More like "MB doesn't translate into geroldmodel, because I don't want to."


This program wasn't built off of a 40 year observation of a little old couple from Poughkeepsie, NY, USA. It is universally applicable.

HHH - is that how you interpreted what Gerold said?
That is not how I took it.

Maybe its the same in the states but in western Europe a girl is holding back if she doesn't give it out on the third date!! (Not in religious circles though)

Gerold I have questioned my ex's sexuality but there were deeper reasons for me doing that than the fact he did not try to have sex with me over a two year period. But they are personal reasons not for me to share here.

I think it is really hard to commit to no sex before marriage, even though I get the importance of it. I am not religious and so I don't have that to explain my choice.

Also if you are getting close to someone emotionally, having sex with them can feel a very natural desire at times.

I am excited about the psychology behind MB HHH I think it is universal. That does not mean that there are not some cultural differences and that in Europe the culture of dating is different.

HoldHerHand, that is not what I wrote (at all)
I do get the message: Stick with the program!
No more sex during dating.

But it did happen: I followed my feelings & instinct at the moment and it felt natural although it was unexpected for the both of us.
I did have a emotional backlash a week later and we put boundaries in place together to prevent it from happening again.

I realise Psy-girl and I are out of the "friend-zone" now forever & that we created an account in each other's love bank after 6 years.

She hit me hard with "honesty & openess" & I surrendered at "affection & care".
I had no idea.
Sorry

Hey thanks BrainHurts!
This show is about Tina who is married and is developing feelings for a co-worker because her emotional needs are not met.
She is not happy in her marriage:

"She wants her husband to be genuinely happy, not depressed
She wants her husband to be her best friend, meet her emotional needs and avoid lovebusters.
She has the right to DEMAND some changes from her hubby."
...according to the Harley's.

This is exactly what my "project-friend" wants from her
(now ex-) boyfriend:
She wants him to grow a spine and start living on his own instead of with his parents.
She wants him to be assertive and to be a MAN.

My "project-friend" expressed an additional emotional need to me, one I heared on a date aswell recently.
I cannot link it to any EN's here on the board:

She has the feeling she has to be in CONTROL of her life all the time, both at home and at work.
She is a perfectionist in every way and takes lead whenever she get's the opportunity. She is quite well at it too!
BUT
On a romantic level she wants the COMPLETE OPPOSITE!
She wants to be wanted, be swept of her feet and to have her CONTROL TAKEN AWAY COMPLETELY...
She knows she is attracted to "bad boys" and vulnerable to predators because of this need.

Any ideas?

Had another date with the 30yr old Phd-student I met in Thailand.
We negotiated a bbq in the park; I prepared a Thai dinner/picnic
as she did not have time to make it to the store on the way from work.
She asked me to buy an extra bottle of wine, which she said would pay ofcourse.

Out of the blue, she invited two of her 30-something engaged girlfriends.
They had a wonderful time.
I didn't.

"psychology girl" texted me asking on how my date was going?
That I was welcome at her place if I was bored/frustrated.
I was.

I respectfully cut the date short after 4 hours of nonsense.
Phd-woman excused herself for not having money to pay me back the bottle of wine.
She did not really seem to care either� good riddance!

Spend the rest of the evening with 'psychology girl'� and fell asleep alone, in my own bed.

Phd-woman was the last 30-something in my dating pool�
Of all my dates, these were by far the most difficult dates to find AND the most disrespectful and frustrating ones.

Thinking about stopping this dating thing for a couple of months. Had enough disrespect for the rest of the year!