after 35 yrs. of marriage, last April i asked my husband for a divorce. I felt out of options. He was neglectful, a workaholic, disrespected my input in financial family issues, and refused to get counseling for himself. I was already in counseling for months. We had marriage counseling that February, a last ditch effort to save our bad marriage. I say bad since it could not have been good with all the above issues. Zero love bank deposits.
I moved physically out of the bedroom although remained in the home until August last summer, due to broken foot and apartment I found was not ready.
Jackson did nothing to rectify anything or make me want to stay. He worked and went out at night when he was not working. I stayed home and nursed my foot and wrote. I am an author. I moved out last August. He did nothing as I stated to keep me there. We had a pause in our mediation for divorce counseling, nothing was signed or resolved. Our mediator too a months vacation in August. On Labor Day, after spending a weekend with our grown children and granddaughter at our home, I felt the already stirring feelings to return home. I expressed my desire to my husband, and he got quite angry and uncomfortable. I then found out unbeknownst to me (though the small town rumor mill was quite buzzing), that he had started a relationship with a woman. He denied such and reduced it to "two dinners and she washed her laundry here."
Hmmm... I immediately suspected more was not being said.
I spent a few nights with him at our home but kept my apartment. He vascillated between " what's changed?" and " you left..." to " I still love you, always will, never wanted a divorce." Ok, so, where was OW in all this? Well she was still in the picture. But he denied it. Said she was a diversion and he was drinking a lot when the thing started. "And you moved out." Well here we are a year later, still unresolved issues. I moved home in November. He ended all contact with OW then. But... I just found out this June that she slept here with him. So, he has lied. He had an affair 13 yrs. ago for 7 months and lied about that. He has a real issue with empathy. He feels entitled to misbehave. All about him. He "works" as he keeps saying. I have been a stay at home mom in past raised two amazing sons, while he traveled for work and school and found time to have an affair. I also worked full time in past years and ran the household duties. He is very old fashioned. Men fix the cars, do yard work, women cook and clean. That was never a problem, until he became a workaholic. This is way too long already, so I will sign off for now. We were both on the June 13th radio show with Dr. Harley and Joyce.
thanks for listening, Nell

to clarify my above post sentence and thought, Jackson slept with the OW last August after I moved out, in our bed. I just found out that fact this June.
thanks, Nell

Welcome to MB and so sorry for your pain.

Who is OW? How do they know each other? Is he still traveling for his job?

Did you ever sign-up for the online program or do MB coaching?

Here's your show.
Radio Clip of nellandjackson's Show
Segment #2
Segment #3
Segment #4
Segment #5

Other Woman was a person we both knew, but not all that well. Does not live full time in our town, but visits often. She met us both when we were together in a bar where we worked. She had a boyfriend at time who magically disappeared when my husband and I were separated. No, he is retired form the traveling/school job for quite a few years. Thanks for you interest and empathy!

We talked with Dr. harley and Joyce on air and me with Joyce vua phone pre-show. We have all three books so far, Love Busters, Fall in Love stay in Love, and His Needs Her Needs and small book, Cherish each other. Waiting for Surviving an Affair book to arrive. But I can read till the cows come home but if Jackson does not read or consider he needs help, then we are back to square one. I am tired.

Just to summarize

Married 1978 have ??? children and one grandchild
2000 - WH had affair
April 2012 - You suggested divorce
August 2012 - You moved out
September 2012 - Suspected/discovered his recent affair
November 2012 - You moved home; WH/OW NC instituted?
June 2013 - You spoke to the Harleys, began (continued?) reading the MB books

Beyond what the Harleys told you and suggested you do, what would you like from us? You got guidance from the pros; what do you want from us dilettantes? You never actually formulated a question.

not sure. Just searching. any advice i guess...

nell, just checking up on you. How are things going? Is there anything we can help you with?

I am very upset and feel as hopeless as I did when I left last year after asking for a divorce. No love units left, major neglect on his part. I came back in November and here we are...
He spoke to OW on friday and he had agreed to do the extraordinary precautions with me. I was there but did not see him speak to her. We did not know she was going to be where we went with friends to a bar. However, he should not have spoken to her. And he did. But I did not know until next day when there it was a Kodak moment caught on Facebook! Yep, there they were chatting it up. And he did not tell me and then wanted to shoot the messenger, the guy who took a wide angle shot of a crowded bar. Two shots and they were in both heads bent towards each other. He carried on and was going to chew oout the photographer. I clicked off my facebook before he could see the photos or the photgrapher's name. Husband is not on FB so he couldn't see the pics. I logged off and left for the day. I was beyond upset. He later said sorry, but that is just another big fat lie and a violation of EP and Recovery.
Am I done here?
Nell

Nell, I scanned your other posts, looking for where you'd exposed the affair. I didn't see it. Did you expose the affair and I just missed it? What have you done to disrupt his affair?

I do not know what anyone can tell me or us at this point. I would consider Steve Harley's coaching program but we have had so many rounds of marital counseling through he years, and as you may know, no program works if you do not both work it. i am quite saddened that I came home and the important things have not changed. he still works far too many hours. he gets in what i think is depressive mode regarding finances,jobs ie: money he "gave up," to spend more time home. So what can be done? I am tired and out of steam. Can you play a baseball game with only half the players? No. Can you have a marriage where only one is present when they are there? nope. So what am I to do? Saying you love someone or I am sorry does not cut it. You need to show it and be remorseful and honest. And I guess some people have a real problem doing so.
thanks, nell

Did you ever expose?

Have you seen this?
When to Call it Quits

Yes, I exposed the affair when I knew about it. See, the problem was that I was not told by my husband when I asked to come back home that he did have an affair, which he insists to this day was not an "affair" but he went to dinner numerous times with another woman while we were separated (not legally, but we were in divorce mediation previous to the OW involvement)then we were not in mediation for a month while he sought out this OW, unbeknownst to me. I hope that is not too confusing to read and to digest. When I asked to come back home, and reunite and work out our problems, he was visibly uncomfortable and had a bit of a hissy fit.I did not know why. I asked him plainly if he had another woman. He said no. He said he went to dinner twice with someone we both knew, but she is not and was not my friend nor his, but a woman customer in a bar where he still worked and I used to work with him. I continued to question him when he calmed down after initial reaction to my request to come back home.Are you sure there is not another woman? No! He insisted. No one. Nothing that meant anything. However when I visited our home to see our frown children and granddaughter when they visited, during the no mediation period, there was evidence in the house of someone having been there. Pictures she took hung on the wall, pictures he left in plain sight on the counter, and he said "you know her.." he stands by his opinion/belief that because I moved out of our home, he was "single." I disagree 100%. He says many people agreed with him. He was "on the market." I was disappointed these former "friends" thought so little of me and supported his urge/need to date when we were not yet divorced and then when I asked to come home, he was undecided. I did not return home last Sept, when I asked. We continued to talk, we stopped the mediation to divorce, and we spent time together at dinners, and I stayed over a few nights at our home and we made love. I wish he would have told me he was still seeing OW then, because I would not have slept over and made love with him. I would have asked him to get tested and as I stated I asked repeatedly if there had been sex between them. he denied any "sex." Just OW slept over after they both drank too much. They did not "do anything physical except kiss." Well, how the heck can I believe this? I did not and still do not. But here I am, having moved back without the knowledge of the "sleepover." And only found out about that this June. I moved back home in November. The OW called him and I intercepted a texting conversation on a synced IPad in our bedroom, between them, all lovey dovey talk, and he was caught! He said he was "trying to break it off." We talked so many nights for hours and he just does not get it.he says "but you were not living here..." Now I know much more transpired between them. An emotional affair for sure. She introduced him to her small children and gown daughter. He told our grown son and daughter in law that he was going to "date soon." Our son was quite disturbed and told me so. I find that so cruel to put on our son and daughter in law who were so upset that we were getting a divorce. He stands in his self-rightiousness that he was "single"while I lived somewhere else for what amounted to one month. I lived at home form April to August while we were in mediation, because my foot was broken, I could not drive and I could not find an apartment. We stayed in separate bedrooms and were civil. Ate meals together, watched tv together, and he went out a lot when he was not working, which is a lot. He is a workoholic. I was in counseling for a whole year prior to asking for a divorce last April. There was nothing left for me to do when he would change nothing to help us. So that is the story. I recently told him that one year to the day this Sept 2nd, we are un-recovered form the affair and hsi lies. he just spoke to OW last Friday when she was at a bar we mistakenly went to with friends. He never told me he spoke to her but next day the pictures of them talking were on facebook. I was shocked. He wanted to shoot the messenger, the photographer. He took not blame. And he never told me he spoke to her until I confronted him with the obvious pictures don't lie proof. So, now we are set back to the beginning of the lie. I fell like a fool and very stupid for believing he could be trustworthy. he wants to "forget about it all and just live." That is not an option. The rug is getting higher form all the omitted truths and lies swept underneath it.
thanks, Nell

Have you sat down with your husband and asked him if he wants to participate in this marriage and read the books with you? ie: literally sitting down together and reading the book out loud to each other (it's what my wife and I do with each other).

Have you asked him what he wants? Have you focused on him to understand what he really wants?

To whom did you expose the affair? I'm still not seeing that in your post. Marriage Builders recommends exposure of the affair to your children, your family, his family, the OW's family and especially her boyfriend. Have you copied all of her Facebook friends? There will be good targets on there.

So I ask again - to whom have you exposed the affair?

It sounds to me like what he wants is obvious: BOTH of them. It's called cake-eating.

Nell, you're going to have to expose this affair if you have any hope of recovery.

I feel the real issue at this juncture is that you believe he had an affair.

The reality is that he most likely did. Any reasonable person cannot possibly believe that someone who you "only kissed" but then slept over did not turn physical" is unrealistic. It mostly likely did. In the absence of any concrete proof you can proceed forward with the knowledge that he did sleep with her.

Confronting him to confirm whether or not he had sexual intercourse with her should not be the goal nor the focus.

He had an affair. Proceed forward as such. Expose to everyone. Initiate extraordinary precautions - which include him writing a no contact letter to the other woman and he must not speak or see her again - ever. He cannot go out alone to bars without your presence. He must be completely transparent in all his actions.

Buy Surviving an Affair and read it immediately. If you have an iPad or Kindle/Android tablet download it ASAP. It will be your guide.

Her response initially was "not sure. Just searching. any advice i guess..."
She never really formulated a question or an issue. It seemed as though she was reading all the books, but the husband wasn't participating. Hence my suggestion to sit down and talk with her husband to find out what his needs are.

Now that she has opened up - the real issue is her husbands affair which is a far cry away from "not sure. Just searching. any advice i guess..." Its actually very specific.

Now that she has verbalized her true concern a plan of action can be formulated.

I would also suggest to not be this vague when speaking with your husband. You must be direct in your assertions and needs. Vacillation is the stone in the path to success.

Who did you expose to on OW's side?