|
|
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,860
Member
|
Member
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,860 |
Just a quick question. I finished "Surviving and Affair" and am looking for a good followup. Was thinking "Love Busters" since I think those are harder for me to avoid than meeting emotional needs (not easy, but easier). WW is willing to read anything I read.
Any thoughts? Yes do not limit yourself to two books. Also get His Needs Her Needs as well.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,956 Likes: 1
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,956 Likes: 1 |
Get both Love Busters and His Needs Her Needs. The Five Steps workbook has many very helpful worksheets that correspond to each LB and EN. I would fill out the Marital Problems Analysis and start with the problems ranked #1. Here Any problems with LB need to worked on first. Can you swing the Online Seminar? It's really helpful and you have access to Dr. Harley on the private forum. You also have a coach assigned to you that will provide accountability.
Married 1980
DDay Nov 2010
Recovered thanks to Marriage Builders
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 900
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 900 |
Get both Love Busters and His Needs Her Needs. The Five Steps workbook has many very helpful worksheets that correspond to each LB and EN. I would fill out the Marital Problems Analysis and start with the problems ranked #1. Here Any problems with LB need to worked on first. Can you swing the Online Seminar? It's really helpful and you have access to Dr. Harley on the private forum. You also have a coach assigned to you that will provide accountability. X2 The online seminar (and subsequent follow-up program) is ideal. You get a year-long program tailored to your marriage. You get the accountability coach who is available to assist you through the various steps and exercises. And you get year-long access to Dr. Harley via the private forum, for specific questions either of you have. Could you do the recovery process yourselves, just by buying the books, without the extra assistance? Sure. But these resources are like training wheels, keeping you out of the ditch as you progress. And, the program structure helps you stay focused. Because recovery is a hard road. Doable, but hard. Many people here say recovery is the hardest thing they've ever done. So give yourselves the best chance. The online program package includes the books, "HNHN", "LB's", and the workbook, "Five Steps to Romantic Love".
Last edited by catwhit; 08/27/13 03:37 PM. Reason: Typo
Me: BW, 57 fWH: 63 (Taffy1) Serial cheater
Presently on the Recovery Road, in the Online program.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 209
Member
|
|
OP
Member
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 209 |
Could you do the recovery process yourselves, just by buying the books, without the extra assistance? Sure. But these resources are like training wheels, keeping you out of the ditch as you progress. And, the program structure helps you stay focused. Turns out, the answer to that is probably, no. Last night was pretty bad. We had been going good for the past few days, covering eachother's intimate ENs like champs and avoiding LBs. I just can't get over the resentment. I feel like I know enough of the truth to move on but I'm almost obsessing over the entire crime. WS is adhering to the EPs and has not attempted (nor desires) contact with OM, who turned out to be a complete louse. I can be going along fine and...pop! There it is in my head...not the gross details of the affair, but all the lies and her complete and vicious disregard for the man she was supposed to protect with love. It's sickening still, and sometimes worse than D-day. The resentment doesn't seem to be fading and it's really making quite a roller-coaster of a recovery. I read over the overcoming resentment article and would consider taking a mild anti-depressant for six months, but that kind of thing isn't allowed in my line of work. It's so messed up that military folks have to suffer such emotional tragedies on their own. Just seeing a psychologist can get me in trouble. I know I'm early in the recovery and everyone says it's measured in months and years. While I understand that to be the case, I'm going bonkers in the meantime. I wish my brain would shut up and let me love her like I always wanted and know I can. I think I better look into the seminar.
Me: BH, 36 Military Officer
FWS: 36, repeat offender
Married: Valentine's Day 1998
DD-15/ DS-10
Almost recovered and ahead of schedule
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 11,239
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 11,239 |
MMM, in recovery from an affair, you need to put all your focus on ending her affair, exposing it and affair proofing your marriage. THEN, all of your focus can go to creating a romantic marriage. I am concerned that you aren't responding to my posts outlining these steps. I hear you Melody, It does feel like I'm skipping over the some of the first steps. As I posted earlier, I royally screwed up the exposure and NC letter. I came to MB late and don't know if I can go back to fix that stuff. It feels late and will take a huge withdrawal from the Love Bank. For Example, I wanted to expose the OM to his employer. He is the head of anesthesiology at a major hospital. He's listed on the Hospital website as a "leader", yet he started an EA (later PA) with a junior subordinate, who was married with a family. From my perspective in the military, I guy in this position had better be exposed, that's completely unacceptable behavior. Well my WS basically said if I did that, we were over. In hindsight, that was probably wrong to fold under those demands. And I really didn't fully understand the MB concept regarding exposing the OM to his employer and potential for him to do this to another nurse in the future. It seemed like I should only do that if the WS refused to leave the job. She has left the job. We live 4000 miles away now, so I think I'm done there. It just torques me that she made such a fit about not exposing him and I caved. I'll respond to affair proofing. I will talk to her tonight about her next job. She is actually job hunting now and I will insist that she eliminates possibilities which put her in a risky atmosphere, we both know what that means for her. I have to consider electronic tracking for communications. Like I said, we live 4000 miles away from ground zero, and that louse doesn't care enough about her to come visit. And, the entire EA was online; it only turned physical on the night of her going away party where the good doctor was buying her and her girlfriends drinks (he was the only guy around a handful of nurses at a strip club). He of course, being the good guy that he was, was not drinking so that he could get her safely home. Turns out, it was his home, not mine...the rest is history. Monitoring the electronic communications is scary hard right now. I've got three computers, several tablets, and everyone has smartphones. They all have different apps which I don't know how to track. Heck, the first evidence of a relationship with him was her messaging him in the game "Words with Friends" on her phone. I saw it by accident months ago and she shrugged it off as he's just a friend. I told her I didn't like it and she stopped playing with him. Of course I had no idea at the time they had already slept together. My point is, I check cell/text records, I have her email go straight to my phone, I have all her passwords, but she duped me again. And, I consider myself a smart guy. The first affair, she was a noob, The evidence was sitting there in her "deleted items" folder on MySpace (five years ago, I know). This time, she was so devious I missed everything. I mean really� messaging on "words with friends". I'm working this, but you have to appreciate my frustration. I will say that I believe her when she says she hasn't contacted him since D-day. I spend quite a bit of time snooping to convince myself of that. And I immediately regret considering allowing her to contact him. You and the fine folks at MB have fixed me. I will tell her tonight that I changed my mind. I hope I'm alive tomorrow. You need to follow all of the steps melody posted. Dr Harley has made his program very clear: It is not pick and choose. It must all be done and not deviated from
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 900
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 900 |
MMM:
I commend your intelligence for recognizing your need for support.
The article on this website titled, "What is Marriage Coaching?" is valuable in outlining the difference between doing the recovery plan yourselves and getting assistance, either in the form of coaching, or the online program (which includes coaching).
You are on the emotional roller coaster now. Yes, this will get better.... eventually.... but you will have severe ups and downs for a while yet.
It is too bad that AD's aren't allowed in your situation. It will be tougher for you without them. But not impossible. Others here have managed without them.
About resentment: Dr. Harley says this is the LAST thing to fade. But it WILL fade. Meanwhile, prevent yourself from using it as a reason/excuse for selfish demands, disrespectful judgements and angry outbursts. This is DIFFICULT, and seems so unfair that we who have been betrayed should have to deal with our resentment without resorting to these expressions. Not only that, but we aren't even supposed to talk about the A!
My suggestion is to use this forum to vent. As you have discovered, people here have been in your shoes, and come out the other side (sometimes, much to their own amazement.)
You are entering the most rigorous training program of your life. Also, the one with the largest potential payoff... A loving, romantic marriage which supports everything you wish to accomplish in life, for you, your wife, and your family.
You can do this.
Me: BW, 57 fWH: 63 (Taffy1) Serial cheater
Presently on the Recovery Road, in the Online program.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 209
Member
|
|
OP
Member
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 209 |
You need to follow all of the steps melody posted.
Dr Harley has made his program very clear: It is not pick and choose. It must all be done and not deviated from I know. I think I've take the required steps to ending/exposing the affair and affair proof the marriage. It's a long process and I'm checking constantly to make sure we are on the right track with keylogger, checking phone records, snooping, standing firm on EPs, etc. I thought I explained this in a previous post, but maybe I wasn't clear. It took me a bit to get into the program, but I think I'm there (or close to it). I don't think I'm picking and choosing anymore. I believe in the program, it's making a HUGE difference. I just feer I don't have the endurance to get past the resentment. Anyway, working on that.
Me: BH, 36 Military Officer
FWS: 36, repeat offender
Married: Valentine's Day 1998
DD-15/ DS-10
Almost recovered and ahead of schedule
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,964
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,964 |
MMM,
Was the first affair ever exposed or resolved?
God Bless
Gamma
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 209
Member
|
|
OP
Member
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 209 |
MMM,
Was the first affair ever exposed or resolved?
God Bless
Gamma Yes, both. I don't have any resentment over that one. He was just some punk that was trying to have some fun with a woman while her husband was out to sea. She eventually saw right through him and never fell in love or planned on leaving me for him. A real turd. These kind of guys are in high numbers in military towns. Makes me sick when I think about these kind of guys thanking veterens for their service. If we ever reinstate the draft, I hope these guys are first to go.
Me: BH, 36 Military Officer
FWS: 36, repeat offender
Married: Valentine's Day 1998
DD-15/ DS-10
Almost recovered and ahead of schedule
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1 |
[
It took me a bit to get into the program, but I think I'm there (or close to it). I don't think I'm picking and choosing anymore. I believe in the program, it's making a HUGE difference. I just feer I don't have the endurance to get past the resentment. Anyway, working on that. MMM, if you will stick with this program, you will get over the resentment, BECAUSE you will effectively replace those feelings with a romantic passion in your marriage. If you don't do that, your resentment will grow.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,153
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,153 |
MMM, if you will stick with this program, you will get over the resentment, BECAUSE you will effectively replace those feelings with a romantic passion in your marriage. If you don't do that, your resentment will grow. MMM, this is spot on. I have struggled MIGTILY with triggers, resentment and just really bad feelings. All the advice you are getting here is excellent and hits the mark. We are at 1yr 9mo's into R. It has and is an extraordinarily difficult process. Going into it, I knew it was going to be hard but I didn't know how hard. IF you follow the program you should see improvements in your M month by month. Although these improvements might just be moving the needle inches at a time, forward progress is forward progress. 2-5 years is a lot to wrap your head around but it is real timeframe to R. Trust in the program was all I was able to hold onto at certain times. It absolutely works though.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 15,818 Likes: 7
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 15,818 Likes: 7 |
MMM, catching back up after a few days, I'm glad to see you guys are experiencing some progress, and I'm not surprised to see you experiencing some return of resentment.
There are probably things around you in your environment that will remind you (trigger memories of) the affair. It will be greatly helpful to remove as much of these things from your environment as possible. Dr. Harley very frequently recommends that couples move after an affair, to establish a whole new environment in which they can build a happy marriage and new memories.
Have you listened to the Marriage Builders Radio program? There is a lot of helpful information there.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,433
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,433 |
I read over the overcoming resentment article and would consider taking a mild anti-depressant for six months, but that kind of thing isn't allowed in my line of work. It's so messed up that military folks have to suffer such emotional tragedies on their own. Just seeing a psychologist can get me in trouble. The idea that medication will not be allowed in your line of work is most likely not true. So long as it is prescribed by a psychiatrist and you report the prescription to your security authority, everything should be OK. I had a similar problem and it turned out to be nothing. You are more of a risk to your service untreated than treated, and this sort of thing is a lot more common than you think. You have done nothing wrong, so don't presume sanctions will happen. Do what is best for your health, and don't hide anything. Report it.
me-65
wife-61
married for 40 years
DS - 38, autistic, lives at home
DD - 37, married and on her own
DS - 32, still living with us
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 209
Member
|
|
OP
Member
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 209 |
MMM, catching back up after a few days, I'm glad to see you guys are experiencing some progress, and I'm not surprised to see you experiencing some return of resentment.
There are probably things around you in your environment that will remind you (trigger memories of) the affair. It will be greatly helpful to remove as much of these things from your environment as possible. Dr. Harley very frequently recommends that couples move after an affair, to establish a whole new environment in which they can build a happy marriage and new memories.
Have you listened to the Marriage Builders Radio program? There is a lot of helpful information there. Funny you mention that. While my wife was having her affair in HI, I was buying a family home in VA. It really upsets me that I spent over a half-million on a house (for us) while she was throwing our life away. She knows how much the decision to buy stressed me out because of the market and what-not. I thought we wanted a place to settle down after I finish my military service. Now the simple thought of painting the walls or fixing the roof just makes me spin with resentment. I'm planning on getting this place set up for renters and moving as soon as I can get my ducks in a row. The thing that really triggers the resentment is when I question her honesty. She appears so genuine now, but I've known her to be a very capable liar in the past. So it's hard to beleive her, even though I want to terribly. She said a few weeks ago that she wished she had carried these secrets to her grave, so that kind of comment makes me wonder if it's all on the table. I am a listener of the radio broadcast, very helpful. Thanks.
Me: BH, 36 Military Officer
FWS: 36, repeat offender
Married: Valentine's Day 1998
DD-15/ DS-10
Almost recovered and ahead of schedule
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 810
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 810 |
Hi MMM, we are only 15 weeks out from my D-Day here.
Not sure what I can add to the conversation since I am such a newbie, except to say that the anger and resentment go up and down for me. Some days or hours, I think no way am going to go through this pain for one more day...and then right after that I somehow feel right side up again.
As markos has said, once it sunk in for me (I think that it took me a few weeks to realize the enormity of it), the oddest things triggered me. We went through the house one day and threw out years of mementos, gifts, jewelry, etc...anything that felt tainted when I looked at it...I felt angry that I had to "lose" my valued stuff, but it really helped! And I don't honestly miss a thing now.
DDays - six months of them THANK YOU God and Marriage Builders. We never knew that it could be this good! 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 209
Member
|
|
OP
Member
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 209 |
Most of last week was pretty good. Doing well with the UA. We even made it out for dinner in the city.
I opted for HN/HN for the next read. FWS is reading as well. SF is my number one and I thought I was covering her need for it for the past 15 years. So, we had some conversation, and she comes clean that I actually haven't REALLY (COMPLETELY) fulfilled her sexually EVER, if you catch my drift. Up until this point she always made me feel like I did, so it was quite a shock to my pride, though not nearly as bad as the A. Dr. Harley suggests that in order for ME to have SF, she has to be as well. That makes alot of sense, if I'm the only one satisfied by sex, what kind of dirtbag does that make me?
He doesn't really go into how to satisfy a woman sexually (too much to cover I suppose) in HN/HN, but he recommended reading any popular book on the subject. I found one that seemed appropriate, and it opened my eyes a bit. Anatomically, I think it's nearly impossible to satisfy her by traditional means. Also, she concedes that her daily masturbation (w/ vibrator) may make it more difficult for me to achieve the same end. Believe it or not, I'm glad she told me this and I look forward to meeting this new challenge...if I can fight off the routine triggers of resentment.
Which leads me to last night. We were sitting on the couch alone after sending the kids up to bed. We started some light kissing (already met SF for the day, so this was just kissing for the sake of kissing). Then it hits me like a ton of bricks. She told me she only slept with the OM once and the other times she met him they only kissed (even though she spent the night again). At the time, I was relieved that they had only kissed that second night, but now it seems just as gross as if they had slept together. It almost seems more personal. Was the way I'm kissing her like the way he did? I had to stop...actually felt sick.
Been in a funk ever since. At least I got farther this time. Last week I had gone only three days before falling into this pit of despair. This time it was five. Here's to progress, I suppose.
I feel like my LB$ for her takes quite a few bank holidays.
Last edited by MadMindMonkey; 09/03/13 01:34 PM.
Me: BH, 36 Military Officer
FWS: 36, repeat offender
Married: Valentine's Day 1998
DD-15/ DS-10
Almost recovered and ahead of schedule
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1 |
Also, she concedes that her daily masturbation (w/ vibrator) may make it more difficult for me to achieve the same end. Believe it or not, I'm glad she told me this and I look forward to meeting this new challenge...if I can fight off the routine triggers of resentment. She has stopped this altogether, right?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 209
Member
|
|
OP
Member
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 209 |
She has stopped this altogether, right? She said she would, but that was two days ago. Right now I can't really even talk to her, let alone find out if it's working. I'm in a death spiral of resentment and anger. Tried talking to her yesterday about where my pain was coming from, specifically that during the affair and after, no one was on my side (OUR side really). Even my father knew something and didn't tell me. (She was drunk messaging POSOM during the A and sent a one line message to my Dad, "Goodnight POSOM, sweet dreams!") She convinced him it was nothing and she had nothing to be ashamed of but asked him not to tell me. He agreed. Her parents didn't admonish her or support me (they did after affair #1). After exposing, only one of my sisters contacted me with a text. One of our common friends from HS just said, "I could tell something was missing" (in reference to our M before A). This is the same friend who I stood tall alongside when she became pregnant in tenth grade and all others, including my W, dropped her like a bad habit. Shouldn't she have told my wife to move Heaven and Earth to make it up to me? I know there isn�t really a way to make it up; it would be nice if someone had at least given those sentiments. I halfway expected my Mom to call her and give her the business after hurting me AGAIN�no joy. I felt completely alone. After DDay, this forum was the only place I got support; I thank you all for that. Imagine my horror when my WW told me I should avoid the forum. THEY were making me crazy. Really? Are you not convinced that sleeping with POSOM was enough to put me in a padded room? She also wrote out a heartfelt apology and read it to me. I know that isn't something I should expect from a wayward, but it was nice to hear. I don't believe she meant everything in it, but good to hear just the same. She asked for my forgiveness but I couldn't give it. I know I HAVE to in order to establish a romantic love, I just couldn't. My resentment is deeply seeded in a lack of respect my W showed me, and the things she selectively shared with the world so others could have the same lack of respect. Anyway, that talk ended up in and AO by me and I left to cool off. We talked again later in bed but I fell asleep facing the wall.
Me: BH, 36 Military Officer
FWS: 36, repeat offender
Married: Valentine's Day 1998
DD-15/ DS-10
Almost recovered and ahead of schedule
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 900
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 900 |
MMM:
Yep, you are on the roller coaster. It sucks. I will just say, it does get better.
Sorry that you are not getting support from family and friends. That is also tough to take, adding insult to injury. I hate that much of our world is so accepting of affairs. AND most people do not have a CLUE as to how to survive (and thrive) after an affair. Which, ironically, doesn't stop them from offering their opinion/advice.
I suggest you use this forum for your venting. You have seen that there is a plan at work here, one that produces proven results. You may need to vent/ask questions more regularly, as your emotions can sweep your plan of action away. You cannot risk AO's (you already know this), and it is very difficult to keep taking the fog-babble, keep doing the work, in the face of your big pile of steaming resentment.
This program may be the hardest thing you will ever do in life. It surely isn't "fair." I know you are up for the challenge.
It will improve. The resentment will fade, but you have to do the work first.
Me: BW, 57 fWH: 63 (Taffy1) Serial cheater
Presently on the Recovery Road, in the Online program.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 25
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 25 |
I feel your pain.
I am one month shy of a year and I am still experiencing triggers and the roller coaster of emotions. To say it is painful is not enough. And even the most supportive WS could never truly understand....but it does get better with time.
I also realize more and more that many events I give time and weight to are now meaningless to my WH because he is not under the fog and fantasy anymore. The bases of his and most affairs is lies and a means of escape that could never stand the light of everyday life and demands.
We all cope with pain and loss differently so please rely on your inner resources that have helped you in other obstacles of life. For me I have developed a list of positive affirmations and facts about GOD, myself, my marriage and my WS. I repeat them when i am down. I must have a system to battle the flood of thoughts and emotions that overwhelm at time.
Wishing you healing and Gods direction
|
|
|
Moderated by Ariel, BerlinMB, Denali, Fordude, IrishGreen, MBeliever, MBsurvivor, MBSync, McLovin, Mizar, PhoenixMB, Toujours
|
3 members (Blackhawk, 2 invisible),
168
guests, and
103
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Children
by BrainHurts - 10/19/24 03:02 PM
|
|
|
Forums67
Topics133,616
Posts2,323,460
Members71,895
| |
Most Online3,185
Jan 27th, 2020
|
|
|
|
