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This morning my DD said to WW something to the effect of "Daddy said you would stay if we gave Mommy lots of hugs and cuddles." Did you actually say this? You shouldn't have. The burden of keeping mommy home has nothing to do with what your kids do, or don't do. MIL is encouraging her to take care of herself and stand on her own two feet. Without a gentleman friend for the time being, I will wager that your WW would not leave unless there was a man in the picture. She isn't going to leave and 'stand on her own two feet'. WW's don't leave their house and children unless they have another offer that they perceive is better. OM is that offer. Don't EVER tell your WW that the kids are your secret weapon. I may have missed some of your posts: are you actually considering having her live with you as a roommate, now or after divorce??
D-Day 2-10-2009
Fully Recovered and Better Than Ever!
Thank you Marriage Builders!
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This morning my DD said to WW something to the effect of "Daddy said you would stay if we gave Mommy lots of hugs and cuddles." Did you actually say this? You shouldn't have. The burden of keeping mommy home has nothing to do with what your kids do, or don't do. MIL is encouraging her to take care of herself and stand on her own two feet. Without a gentleman friend for the time being, I will wager that your WW would not leave unless there was a man in the picture. She isn't going to leave and 'stand on her own two feet'. WW's don't leave their house and children unless they have another offer that they perceive is better. OM is that offer. Don't EVER tell your WW that the kids are your secret weapon. I may have missed some of your posts: are you actually considering having her live with you as a roommate, now or after divorce?? No I didn't actually say that. My DD interpreted it that way. I wanted them to be extra nice to Mommy because she was feeling bad. I didn't say the kids are my secret weapon, I was referring to Family Commitment. No man can fill this need greater than a father. It was the only EN I could meet for her while she was living with POSOM. I said it was my secret weapon when we were discussing the EN in the SAA book. I was considering it as "married roommates". I at one time considered it after divorce to facilitate more Plan A and UA time to reestablish a connection with her. She was on board with the idea, but this was a horrible thought. It doesn't matter now, she's not coming back and I know how bad and idea it was to try. Note to other BH in a divorce proceeding watch yourself.
BH Me 34
WW 29
DS 7, DD 5
Multiple EAs 2006-2011
PA 1 OM1 2/2012; D-Day1 3/14/2012; NC 4/1/2012; broke NC 05/2012
PA 2 ONS OW1 7/11/12
PA 3 OM2 1/06/2013; D-Day2 1/14/2013
Divorcing 1/22 Plan A 1/23
Worthless attempt at Trickle Exposure
Multiple PAs OW2,3,&4 since 1/27/2013
WW moved out 3/5/2013
Temp Custody of DS and DD 3/21/13
WW moved back D-Day 3 9/1/13
NC/FR 9/3/13
WW moved out 9/17/13
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If you're going to divorce, you should divorce. Planning to divorce to get Plan A time doesn't make any sense.
Those who reunite after divorce usually do so because the wayward has come hat in hand ready to make all the changes, and it doesn't sound like that'd be the case...and since you'd be divorced I don't see it working out for you, since she would have a green card to date other people.
One year becomes two, two years becomes five, five becomes ten and before you know it, you've wasted your whole life on a problem you can't solve. That's one way to spend your life. -rwinger
I will not spend my life this way.
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hey karma long time no see. I miss your insights.
You're right it doesn't make sense, we're going to actually do it this time.
I would like nothing better than to reunite with her some time in the future. My heart is in pieces now and I really can't take all the swings and roller coaster ride any longer, and neither can she.
I certainly expect her to date others. We'll see what the future holds. In the meantime there's PR to work on.
BH Me 34
WW 29
DS 7, DD 5
Multiple EAs 2006-2011
PA 1 OM1 2/2012; D-Day1 3/14/2012; NC 4/1/2012; broke NC 05/2012
PA 2 ONS OW1 7/11/12
PA 3 OM2 1/06/2013; D-Day2 1/14/2013
Divorcing 1/22 Plan A 1/23
Worthless attempt at Trickle Exposure
Multiple PAs OW2,3,&4 since 1/27/2013
WW moved out 3/5/2013
Temp Custody of DS and DD 3/21/13
WW moved back D-Day 3 9/1/13
NC/FR 9/3/13
WW moved out 9/17/13
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Please do not give her a fantasy divorce. It would be the worst for your feelings.
One year becomes two, two years becomes five, five becomes ten and before you know it, you've wasted your whole life on a problem you can't solve. That's one way to spend your life. -rwinger
I will not spend my life this way.
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Posts: 12,357
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I wanted them to be extra nice to Mommy because she was feeling bad. No. Don't say this again. Mommy is feeling bad, because Mommy is BEING bad. Don't confuse them. Have you exposed the affair to them?
D-Day 2-10-2009
Fully Recovered and Better Than Ever!
Thank you Marriage Builders!
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Posts: 240
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Please describe fantasy divorce? I'm going to have majority custody and she will have standard visitation, and she will pay reduced child support until she gets a worthwhile job. Then I'll go back for full support. Best I'd get right now is about $50 a month plus medical support of about $45.
BH Me 34
WW 29
DS 7, DD 5
Multiple EAs 2006-2011
PA 1 OM1 2/2012; D-Day1 3/14/2012; NC 4/1/2012; broke NC 05/2012
PA 2 ONS OW1 7/11/12
PA 3 OM2 1/06/2013; D-Day2 1/14/2013
Divorcing 1/22 Plan A 1/23
Worthless attempt at Trickle Exposure
Multiple PAs OW2,3,&4 since 1/27/2013
WW moved out 3/5/2013
Temp Custody of DS and DD 3/21/13
WW moved back D-Day 3 9/1/13
NC/FR 9/3/13
WW moved out 9/17/13
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Posts: 240
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I wanted them to be extra nice to Mommy because she was feeling bad. No. Don't say this again. Mommy is feeling bad, because Mommy is BEING bad. Don't confuse them. Have you exposed the affair to them? Good way to put it. Yes I exposed to them age appropriately.
BH Me 34
WW 29
DS 7, DD 5
Multiple EAs 2006-2011
PA 1 OM1 2/2012; D-Day1 3/14/2012; NC 4/1/2012; broke NC 05/2012
PA 2 ONS OW1 7/11/12
PA 3 OM2 1/06/2013; D-Day2 1/14/2013
Divorcing 1/22 Plan A 1/23
Worthless attempt at Trickle Exposure
Multiple PAs OW2,3,&4 since 1/27/2013
WW moved out 3/5/2013
Temp Custody of DS and DD 3/21/13
WW moved back D-Day 3 9/1/13
NC/FR 9/3/13
WW moved out 9/17/13
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Meaning, don't try to do Plan A things at all, don't be super friendly co-parenting, etc. The vets could give you better definition.
Go totally dark. If you don't she will have no reason to come back to you if she DOES suddenly change.
One year becomes two, two years becomes five, five becomes ten and before you know it, you've wasted your whole life on a problem you can't solve. That's one way to spend your life. -rwinger
I will not spend my life this way.
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Posts: 12,357
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Good way to put it. Yes I exposed to them age appropriately. I'm going to assume that this means that you exposed your WW's affair to them; not "mommy and daddy aren't getting along" - You specifically told them that mommy has a boyfriend, and that is wrong when she is married to daddy. You worded it that way, correct? Because you are currently shielding your WW from the fallout of her affair if you aren't letting your kids know the truth of their family's problem.
D-Day 2-10-2009
Fully Recovered and Better Than Ever!
Thank you Marriage Builders!
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Posts: 240
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Good way to put it. Yes I exposed to them age appropriately. I'm going to assume that this means that you exposed your WW's affair to them; not "mommy and daddy aren't getting along" - You specifically told them that mommy has a boyfriend, and that is wrong when she is married to daddy. You worded it that way, correct? Because you are currently shielding your WW from the fallout of her affair if you aren't letting your kids know the truth of their family's problem. yes verbatim Meaning, don't try to do Plan A things at all, don't be super friendly co-parenting, etc. The vets could give you better definition.
Go totally dark. If you don't she will have no reason to come back to you if she DOES suddenly change. This will be difficult. I planned to use my home for the childcare times when she has them and I'm away.
BH Me 34
WW 29
DS 7, DD 5
Multiple EAs 2006-2011
PA 1 OM1 2/2012; D-Day1 3/14/2012; NC 4/1/2012; broke NC 05/2012
PA 2 ONS OW1 7/11/12
PA 3 OM2 1/06/2013; D-Day2 1/14/2013
Divorcing 1/22 Plan A 1/23
Worthless attempt at Trickle Exposure
Multiple PAs OW2,3,&4 since 1/27/2013
WW moved out 3/5/2013
Temp Custody of DS and DD 3/21/13
WW moved back D-Day 3 9/1/13
NC/FR 9/3/13
WW moved out 9/17/13
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Posts: 7,449
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Meaning, don't try to do Plan A things at all, don't be super friendly co-parenting, etc. The vets could give you better definition.
Go totally dark. If you don't she will have no reason to come back to you if she DOES suddenly change. I see that you are still hoping for reconciliation at some point and it concerns me that you did not address my post to you about EPs. I discussed the topic of recovering with a serial cheater at length with Dr Harley. Unless she is willing to implement EPs to a degree that eliminates almost all opportunity for an affair then R is not going to be possible. The other thing that I want you to consider is that she has had a SSL (secret second life) for basically your entire M from what I have read here. This (dishonesty) has likely become second nature to her and will be a VERY hard habit for her to break. Lastly, I hope you realize that it is impossible to get a WS to fall back in love with you when she refuses to close her LB$ to others. Even if this current affair ends, without the EPs in place that I mentioned, there will just be OM4, 5 and 6 for a cheater like this. Hang in there.
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Thanks JK. I've had the VAR on hand. I really hate to go through with the D but i guess i really do have to. She only did it today a few minutes before i posted. Unfortunately the guy lives 3 blocks from me and 1 block from her employer. she said she stopped by tk give the POSOM the money she owed him. Said she felt better about leaving him because she now doesnt have to worry so much that she ruined his life. I almost choked holding in that response. Some things waywards say about give me a coronary! I really cant afford to move, i have no savings and no hope of finding a rent/living situation like i have now. I think i do need to get her out, hopefully to her parents; otherwiss she's gonna end up in some bad situation or another. I'm really scared for her. I just wish she cared enough to give my opinions some thought beyond instant rejection. As long as the OM is a couple of blocks away, R really isn't going to be possible. Even if you were to move away and end THIS affair, because your WW is a serial cheater, you realize that you would need even more EPs? ALL opportunity for an affair would need to be eliminated. That means that you spend all free time together. Your WW probably shouldn't do things like errands and shopping without you and probably shouldn't have open access to the internet. Sorry about that SusieQ Yes she's a serial cheater, and I'm aware that I would need super extraordinary precautions with her. If she is willing to go with it in the future we'll see. She and I discussed many of these things together at length, and she had done most of them. WW actually brought this up today while she was sniping at me and I said something about her not taking any of my recommendations seriously. She countered with how she had killed online presence, changed numbers, and was deleting her email accounts to keep away from POSOM. Didn't take long for him to get through to her. Wonder how long before she's back living with him.
BH Me 34
WW 29
DS 7, DD 5
Multiple EAs 2006-2011
PA 1 OM1 2/2012; D-Day1 3/14/2012; NC 4/1/2012; broke NC 05/2012
PA 2 ONS OW1 7/11/12
PA 3 OM2 1/06/2013; D-Day2 1/14/2013
Divorcing 1/22 Plan A 1/23
Worthless attempt at Trickle Exposure
Multiple PAs OW2,3,&4 since 1/27/2013
WW moved out 3/5/2013
Temp Custody of DS and DD 3/21/13
WW moved back D-Day 3 9/1/13
NC/FR 9/3/13
WW moved out 9/17/13
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 240
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 240 |
Ugh. Waywards are so frustrating. One day we're moving out because I'm hated and uncomfortable to be around, the next she's happy as a clam watching the kids in my house no less, texting on her phone all day and sitting on the couch.
All. Day. Long.
LITERALLY.
I saw it. When she wasn't there she was napping with DD in my bed. Even so comfortable that she put on PJs to get more comfy before I arrived home and she had to leave and go back to MIL's place.
My brain melts at the concept. I'm going to bed.
BH Me 34
WW 29
DS 7, DD 5
Multiple EAs 2006-2011
PA 1 OM1 2/2012; D-Day1 3/14/2012; NC 4/1/2012; broke NC 05/2012
PA 2 ONS OW1 7/11/12
PA 3 OM2 1/06/2013; D-Day2 1/14/2013
Divorcing 1/22 Plan A 1/23
Worthless attempt at Trickle Exposure
Multiple PAs OW2,3,&4 since 1/27/2013
WW moved out 3/5/2013
Temp Custody of DS and DD 3/21/13
WW moved back D-Day 3 9/1/13
NC/FR 9/3/13
WW moved out 9/17/13
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Posts: 1,650
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Who is she texting? Are you still snooping?? Seems she is cake eating at your expense. What is your next step? Have you brought the idea of her coming to the forum? If she can text all day she can come here.
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I read your updates.
I suggest you go into immediate Plan B.
Drop plans on saving your marriage and focus on your kids.
End all text nessages with her.
Don't beg her to be your roomate.
Get this divorce asap.
And get a thorough background check on OM.
If she has drug issues you should seek full custody
Last edited by Jedi_Knight; 09/19/13 11:27 PM.
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Posts: 240 |
I'm pretty sure she's texting OM and one of her enabling friends. She also plays a lot of solitaire on her phone. I have no access to it. I'm snooping as much as I can (VR and camera). The kids know mommy should not be with OM and she has agreed not to bring them around him. They will tell me; they're old enough to know. Her family doesn't support the relationship with OM, but they enable it by not interfering and supporting her with room and board. The alternative is her moving right back in with him. She did start job hunting for a real job today. Told me again that she loves him and wants to be stable before/if she goes back. I'm screaming in my head "REALLY, A DRUG-ADDICTED, ABUSIVE, VIOLENT PERSON AND YOU WANT TO GO BACK!!!" But only after she's able to support herself and has her own space will she be able to have a relationship. That certainly makes it all just dandy doesn't it? He'll be a great influence after you clean up your act won't he? Excerpt of today's ramblings: WW: You're not going to be happy about this but I emailed him and asked him if he wanted the tv and washer, it would be a financial relief considering the payment is due Monday and I don't have the money, and he said he will make the payments including the one Monday if I bring them. So tonight if you could unhook them I would appreciate it. 11:55 AM
I know you don't them around him so to respect that wish I can come early tomorrow and take them over there and come right back before you have to leave for work? 11:56 AM
Me: you're right I don't like it. I don't know why you continue to communicate with him. you didn't even ask me if I wanted to keep them. 12:01 PM
WW: They aren't yours. They were mine and his. 12:01 PM
Me: i guess you gave him your new number? 12:01 PM
WW: I don't have the money to make the payments and neither do tyou 12:02 PM
Me: are they in your name only or is it joint? 12:02 PM
WW: My name 12:03 PM
WW: But we bought them together 12:03 PM
Me: buying them together is not the issue. your credit is. 12:04 PM
WW: I kinda thought they might be a trigger for you also so I didn't think you would want them here. Esp if I'm not living here. IF I can't user them. 12:04 PM
Me: he needs to either assume the account or pay you the balance due. you can't trust him to make payments on it. are you even off that lease yet? 12:04 PM
WW: You are the one ruining my credit with that att 12:05 PM
WW: Yes I an off the lease. Geez.please calm down. 12:06 PM
WW: And you cannot give me ultimatums. I am trying to communicate with you 12:06 PM
Me: thank you for being concerned about them being a trigger. i assumed they were in your name and so they are not a trigger for me. just my wife's stuff. 12:23 PM
Me: I have enjoyed the capacity of the washer, and being able to actually use the HD features of my cable box. works great for skylanders. and i was gonna get an HD tv eventually anyway. 12:25 PM
WW: Financially neither you or I can afford them at this time. He can. out would be a huge relief for me. 12:26 PM
Me: I'm not upset, i'm calm. I just don't want to see you hurt anymore by anyone. i'm glad you're off the lease. I was going to ask the other day. 12:26 PM
WW: I'm sorry. 12:26 PM
Me: with you living here and not having to pay any rent or other utilities we would have been able to afford the pmt on the items. but that's not ok for you. 12:28 PM
Me: I do not intend any of what I said to be an ultimatum, just an expression of my concern. I am trying to communicate with you as well. 12:29 PM
WW: If you really mean that, then please, I want us to sign the papers. I'm willing to work with you on it. Me living at my parents temporarily and coming here to be with the kids, help you out with some cleaning and such. Its a good thing for all of us. But in order for me to fully heal I need those papers done asap. It will help you also. Just like you said a couple weeks ago. 12:30 PM
WW: If you don't want me hurt by anyone, then stop hurting me. Please. We agreed to terms the other day. Weshould go with that. If you are comfortable firing your attny and filing it ourselves then let's do that. I won't "attack" when he's not covering you anymore. You have my word I still want this to go amicably 12:33
Me: I have been working on a revision to the papers I think you'll be happy enough to sign. 12:35 PM
WW: Thank you. I hope so. I don't want us to hurt each other I know it goes both ways. 12:35 PM
Me: Please be patient. The divorce is obviously a trigger for me. My fear is that as soon as they are signed you will run right back to him. I'm sorry that's just how I feel about it. I really don't want to see you put yourself in such a dangerous position again. Nobody does. Our families included. We are all very worried. 12:37 PM
WW: I'm not going to lie about it, I love him. But I an really trying hard to get my life in order before I go back. And if. Him and I have things to talk abut that we haven't yet. That's why I want tosign the papers, get a full time job and be independant again. Only then will I be able to have a healthy relationship. I know that. 12:38 PM
WW: Goodnight fir now 12:42 PM  The rest of our conversation actually included how we prefer broccoli florets to cut pieces so that's something I guess.
Last edited by mijunleigh; 09/20/13 12:12 AM.
BH Me 34
WW 29
DS 7, DD 5
Multiple EAs 2006-2011
PA 1 OM1 2/2012; D-Day1 3/14/2012; NC 4/1/2012; broke NC 05/2012
PA 2 ONS OW1 7/11/12
PA 3 OM2 1/06/2013; D-Day2 1/14/2013
Divorcing 1/22 Plan A 1/23
Worthless attempt at Trickle Exposure
Multiple PAs OW2,3,&4 since 1/27/2013
WW moved out 3/5/2013
Temp Custody of DS and DD 3/21/13
WW moved back D-Day 3 9/1/13
NC/FR 9/3/13
WW moved out 9/17/13
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Posts: 1,650
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She came back to woo you into submission and giving her an easy divorce. My guess is POSOM threw the fact she's a cheater in her face so now she wants a quick divorce. Don't be amicable, don't file yourself retain a lawyer and get everything you want. Starting with full custody and if she has drug issues (which is likely) go for state supervised visitation. You sir are being worked over, she had SF with you to get what she wanted and that's why it felt horrible for her.
Fight for your marriage and don't lay down. Write her a letter stating what it will take for you to stay married to her. Also, add if she isn't willing she needs to leave and find other living arrangements. I would write Dr. Harley to see if he feels you should stay in Plan A or go to Plan B. I know he prefers men to Plan A until divorce but how are you holding up mentally?
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She currently lives with her parents. Her work and the kids are all right by my house and so is POSOM. I have informed her that she will not get to see her kids if she goes back to live with POSOM. She has only done drugs when in his environment. She quit smoking pot about a month ago and I and her parents have been keeping a close eye on her since she's been away from him. No sign that she's used again.
I do agree she is feeling guilt for the SF with me. She feels bad because she loves him and not me but did it with me anyway because she needed it. That I think is why she felt as horrible about it as she did and claims it was as what she said.
Mentally I'm doing OK. A little broken-hearted from the most recent turn of events. She already knows what it would take. In her head though it's me that needs to make some serious changes for her to want to stay. Meanwhile she says my conditions are a way for me to control her for the rest of her life, and be creepy, and invade her emotional and personal space/privacy. She's not ready, and won't be anytime soon.
BH Me 34
WW 29
DS 7, DD 5
Multiple EAs 2006-2011
PA 1 OM1 2/2012; D-Day1 3/14/2012; NC 4/1/2012; broke NC 05/2012
PA 2 ONS OW1 7/11/12
PA 3 OM2 1/06/2013; D-Day2 1/14/2013
Divorcing 1/22 Plan A 1/23
Worthless attempt at Trickle Exposure
Multiple PAs OW2,3,&4 since 1/27/2013
WW moved out 3/5/2013
Temp Custody of DS and DD 3/21/13
WW moved back D-Day 3 9/1/13
NC/FR 9/3/13
WW moved out 9/17/13
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Posts: 240
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Posts: 240 |
This morning I got a call from her because her tire blew out on the way to my house to pick up our DD and she needed help. I came with our DD changed it out and got her back in business. She was 1/4 mile from her parent's house where her mom and brother still were, and I was 15 miles away in the next town over. I later found out she didn't even call them to tell them after the fact that this had even happened. I gave her some money to replace the 2 bad tires with used ones until she could fix her bad alignment and get good tires. She called me to tell me that the first place had 2 tires but was charging too much. Later she called because the next place had 2 smaller tires but DD was acting up. So she just left. I tried to tell her the smaller would work for now (it's just triage and I don't expect them to last very long). She is wanting it solved now so she said "you're not gonna like this but..." Oh OM can do it for me he's not working today and he'd be able to go get them etc. etc. REALLY!!!! 
BH Me 34
WW 29
DS 7, DD 5
Multiple EAs 2006-2011
PA 1 OM1 2/2012; D-Day1 3/14/2012; NC 4/1/2012; broke NC 05/2012
PA 2 ONS OW1 7/11/12
PA 3 OM2 1/06/2013; D-Day2 1/14/2013
Divorcing 1/22 Plan A 1/23
Worthless attempt at Trickle Exposure
Multiple PAs OW2,3,&4 since 1/27/2013
WW moved out 3/5/2013
Temp Custody of DS and DD 3/21/13
WW moved back D-Day 3 9/1/13
NC/FR 9/3/13
WW moved out 9/17/13
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