Debating and needing to prove or convince you of my wife's actions are pointless. She love busts me multiple times per day and the main two things regardless of whatever concrete example makes YOU feel that it is in fact real are:

1. "I didn't say that" even thought she did.
2. "You just took it the wrong way."

The first is a blatant lie, is it not?

The second isn't a lie but rather a demand by telling me how to think and feel.

You've made up your mind that I have no credibility so go post elsewhere since I don't want to play by your rules. There are plenty of fantastic people on this forum that will take my simple request for what is without demanding that I must prove myself to be worthy of their help.

No, no no... we are demanding; what EXACTLY is going on - not just what she says/does, but what you say/do in response. We are demanding that you don't argue semantics and deflect.

You have been here long enough to know what the goal of this program is, and that posters are attempting to help you improve your marriage.

When you fight, deflect, and argue you lengthen that process - a process being carried out by people voluntarily and with no cost to you other than an open ear.

Your two examples would be disrespectful judgments. However, what your job is is to table the complaint. It is then up to her to correct her course. Do not dignify or address her response to your complaint, just state it.

I would love it if you would ask me to do things, rather than tell me.

Done, regardless of her response.


The funny thing is, this pattern reminds me of a post that someone shared on another thread about a spouse starting out feeling like a constant failure do to complaints being brought up - but as the complaints are addressed, that feeling will fade.

That is a shame. Indie is probably the best person you could have helping you. Not only is she good at seeing the real problem but she is incredibly good at explaining things.

Patience is good.

(HT)HL,

I think another issue that is going on, is that you are coming for support when you hit a high-voltage crisis point, and when things smooth out for a minute, you disappear.

You need to stick to it, keep active, and really clean up your side of the street.

If you were to pony up for coaching, that's what the coach would do; have you clean up YOUR side of the street.

You know you are going to take knocks, that's not new, dude.

But, we need to sharpen your game to a fine razor's edge.

Here is something that happened today. We were getting ready to take the kids out to some lunch and to shop a bit. Everybody was loaded up in the car and the 2 year old was kinda of being a pain which both was stressful for my wife and I. She is our most difficult by far of the three. In fact our big problems started after child #3. My wife came out and said something along the lines of "She is lucky she is in her car seat considering what she just did." It turns out she had found a little corner of wallpaper in the bathroom and ripped it off the wall for about two feet. When things break around the house my wife gets fired up. I mean it really gets her temper boiling. I didn't say anything other than agree with her that it is amazing how destructive this child can be. 3-4 minutes later my wife proclaimed to me, "You need to watch her at all times, otherwise stuff like this happens. You just can't let this happen again." This is a standard comment that is similar to so many others that they are too numerous to count. It bothered me tremendously. I felt like she was assigning blame because I wasn't following the child around the house at all times, which she doesn't do herself, so I guess I felt that she was hypocritical. I felt that she was assigning blame when blame wasn't due. I'm more of the opinion that this is just what two year old's do sometimes, particular this one. I didn't like being told what I need to do by my wife especially since she won't practice what she preaches. How did I handle it? I said, "Honey, I really prefer that next time our DD does something like this that you don't tell me what to do, but rather ask if this is something I could do." She was remarkably calm this time, escalating to maybe a 6/10 this time. She immediately got defensive and the tension was heavy. She said, "Well I can't take it anymore, she wrecks stuff all the time and I'm about to lose my mind." She says this all the time too. I don't like being around that environment. I kind of went silent a bit because I really don't care for conflict like that. I made myself start signing to a song on the radio because silence can be considered a LB on my part and eventually it blew over and we had a good time.

I guess my difficulty is that this pattern never changes any behaviors on her part. I've always felt that she doesn't really see the big deal with frequent conflict. It seems to me, from my perspective, that this kind of thing doesn't mean anything at all. She moves on from it like nothing ever happened, whereas I am very effected by it.

That's it. They all play out the same which is why I never got specific because I no longer have to guess what is gonna happen anymore. It is also worth mentioning that my wife has said many things to me about how she respects those that will challenge her. She hates when people won't speak their mind at all times. I would describe it as "machisima" for lack of a better word. I think macho perspectives are totally lame personally, but that is just my perspective. My wife has issues with my mother and both sisters because they don't "speak their mind at all times." From their perspective my wife acts like a ****** so they would rather take the high road than deal with it because it is pointless.

I hope that is a more detailed description of what you are looking for from me. I do want to become a fine tuned razor because I still believe our marriage can be great. My description of my wife and her background might be a bit brutal and even Freudian, but I still think it is spot on which is why I shared it with you all.

Really quickly, things are better than ever. I invited a friend who is going through a tough time to MB and decided to begin posting once again. Better than ever is great but nowhere near where it needs to be.

Oh I have no doubt of that, your examples show she is lovebusting you.

You are in the state of conflict with your spouse absolutely, but it is not as hopeless and cheerless as you fear.

She doesn't have a chronic problem with dishonesty. Of that I am quite certain. If she did you would have so many examples to tell us.

She is ignoring your point of view, and refusing to work with you. Quite a commmon and highly solvable marital problem.

I DO understand it is highly distressing and her stubbornness in not seeing your side feels like a refusal to see the truth.


It will take patience and cheerfulness to guide her out of this, but you can do it.

If you can avoid getting bogged down in analysing her childhood and the inner workings of her mind you will stay more cheerful while you work on the task in hand.

Sure thing, you know where I am if you change your mind.

"However, what your job is is to table the complaint. It is then up to her to correct her course. Do not dignify or address her response to your complaint, just state it."

That is all I need to know. I feel that her standard response of "I didn't say that" or "You just took it the wrong way" meant that I needed to clarify it or be more adamant. There were many times that I'd reply, "I'd appreciate if you didn't tell me how to take things" to which she'd blow up. One complaint fine, two just escalates. My instincts want me to desperately set the record straight about what transpired.

As far as dishonesty goes, what would you classify her standard responses as?

"I didn't say that", even though she did is a _______________.
"You just took it the wrong way" is a ____________, I believe DJ.

What do you think dishonesty is? IndieGirl seems to think it just "seems" dishonest. Just so I don't muck it up with my own feelings on the subject what are yours?

This is the right advice!

(And don't diagnose your wife as being "narcissistic.")

No, you haven't. You are still disrespectful of her -- diagnosing her is extraordinary disrespectful, and you do it all over the place.

You've still got quite a ways to go on the DJs. That is why you are not seeing much change in her.

Here's your question.
Radio Clip of HonestyLovebust's question

Thanks I listened to it to. Dr H recommended that I separate from my wife. I think the difficulty that I'm having is that when I try to meet needs and eliminate all DJ's and SD's is that I am not able to sustain it for a long enough period of time because I turn into a Giver. I get fed up and then begin firing back and reacting to her. Vicious cycle.

In terms of her current state. She went to a doctor because of all kinds of physical issues, upset tummy, panic attacks, low libido, elevated temperature. She thought he'd look into her hormones. He looked at her and grabbed both of her hands and said, "Why are you so stressed?" All of it is stress and anxiety. The more stressed she is, the worse she treats me, but when she is not stressed she is very fun to be with and treats me well. The roller coaster effect is exhausting. I never really recognized it before, but the more the kids or the house or anything else stresses her out she starts going after me. It is almost instantaneous.

I can't make her deal with her stress, that is up to her, but what I can do is really try and make sure I'm highly aware of stressful situations and times so that I'm more prepared to deal with her DJ's and Demands. Secondly I need to figure out how to get her to commit to more UA time. As you all know she has been incredibly difficult to commit to this. I now know why, it is stressful to her. Going out during the week stresses her out so she just doesn't want to do it. She feels like things pile up around the house like laundry and she hates feeling rushed. Feeling rushed causes stress and she almost always comes after me.

After a full day of that environment and stress she is exhausted and doesn't have any energy left to do anything other than sit on couch watching reality TV and play Candy Crush on her phone.

So I don't know what to do at this point. I'm stressed, but not at that level, I'm stressed about having a lousy marriage that is far from romantic. Additionally it is a drag to be around someone like her when she is stressed. When she is not stressed, like last night at a wedding we went to we had a blast. Each time we have fun I get hopeful again only to be crushed again, like an hour ago when she came after me because she was stressed about going to a Cub Scout meeting.

Help create a low stress life for her, not tell her to deal with it on her own. If cub scouts is stressful, then remove it from your lives or negotiate the burden of responsibility so that you are both happy with going to cub scouts. Her biggest stress is her relationship with you and how you're not a partner or teammate with her. You focus so much on how flawed and imperfect she is that you can't see your own disrespect. All I've seen in your posting and radio question is a huge heap of negative, accusatory judgement. What human being would want to spend one minute of intimate time with that, much less 15 hours of it?

And to keep her protected from your Lovebusters has nothing to do with being a Giver or being too much of a Giver.

x2.



Exactly. There is no excuse for lovebusting. None.

We have had spouses on here deal with full blown affairs without exhibiting a single LB. If they can do that, you can avoid it.

Dr H's advice on 'being a giver' is very clear. Stop it. No one likes a martyr.

I can appreciate the assessment. I don't ever tell her to deal with her own stress, what I was trying to convey is that I can't make her relax, but I most certainly can try and relieve some of that stress in her life. I've taken on significantly more and more with the children, the house, etc. Let me spell out, in 100% honesty, the average day for me and then you can tell me what you think can be done differently.

6:20am wakeup. Either my wife is already at the gym, or lately is having a hard time getting up. I get up first and get all 3 children up why she puts makeup on or just wakes up to start her day. I take them downstairs and I immediately start to make them all breakfast. I cook all breakfasts in the house. I let them finish up and I clean breakfast dishes while packing a lunch for the big two kids and a small snack for the 3 year old.

7:00am kids head up to get ready for the day. This is a very stressful time for all. It mostly involves trying to get our 6 year old boy to listen and walk through his list of responsibilities to get ready for school. Currently I am downstairs usually unless things get a bit unruly where I come to back up mom and restore some order. I am working out of the house so I get a lot done during this time.

7:45am. Wife takes two big kids to school either by walking or driving while I stay with the little one and work.

8:45am. Wife and I take little one to her class and usually head to the gym together or at least at the same time. She takes spin classes whereas I kind of do my own thing.

10:30am. We go to pick up little one and go get a green tea together.

10:45am. Wife goes up to shower while I stay with little one and work.

11:30am. I go to shower because my sales calls occur between 12pm and 3pm. Wife stays with little one or heads out to run errands.

12pm-330pm. I go to the coffee shop down the street to work and make sales calls.

4pm. Daddy gets home where homework is taking place. My wife split homework assistance most days depending on who has what on their plate. If she has extra laundry to do she might head up and I'll do it, other days if I didn't finish my work then she'll do it.

5pm. Daddy starts dinner. I cook all dinners. I clean up dinner about 80% of the time because my wife is either tired, or because she goes upstairs to bath kids about 2 days a week.

6pm. Family time. We usually hang out and watch a movie and munch popcorn.

7:30 or 8pm. Bedtime. We usually split it up where one of us takes little one, this takes more time, and the big two for the other parent.

8pm. Mom and Dad are excited for this time because the kids are not in our face, but UA time really doesn't happen. I've given up asking to do things like play games because she just says she is too tired.

10:30pm. Bedtime for us. Very little SF, maybe every couple of weeks. It used to be her too tired, but as I've gotten older sometimes it is me too.

So that is my day. Weekends are about soccer games, football games, and track meets, which I'm very involved in as assistant coach, etc. We have a very active social life so we usually will get out one day a week for the two of us where we have a lot of fun every time. Then one other weekend day we usually are invited to go somewhere with other families in the area who have kids the same age. We have fun there too, but usually separately because my wife wants to talk with all her friends. The other dads and I chat about guy stuff.

I already feel and great sense of inequity in the relationship and taking more on to relieve her stress so far has been a strategy that hasn't allowed her to be less stressed. What is my threshold? I don't know, but I'm already pretty bitter as you can tell and I have been lovebusting off and on for a long time. You are correct there is no excuse and really no purpose to love bust. My love busting is almost exclusively a reaction to her treatment of me and it hasn't been working so I have to be diligent in not participating. I'm all ears.

Spend this time with your wife.

Made it from morning to 4pm. I withstood the constant demands, sarcasm, argumentative language, and reached a limit and added some sarcasm of my own. I've never met someone this argumentative and unreasonable in my life. Here is what it was about. Our daughter, who is 9, missed 2 questions on a homework test. My wife immediately demanded that "we" inspect every test even though we sat in a meeting together with the teacher and the teacher told us "it is important that you don't do the tests for you, your children will learn more through making mistakes than having you correct it." I was there, she was there, it happened. I proceeded to ask our DD how she felt about missing two problems, because this is her responsibility and she was careless which is why she missed two problems. I said to my wife, "Honey, we both sat there and the teacher told us about this very specifically because we had disagreed about it and we wanted to know." She said, "That is not what she said." I said, "Well then what did she say then?" this time with a little attitude of my own. She said, "Well it wasn't that and she's gonna get D's and we'll all be sorry!"

I honestly don't feel like I can do this. The positive moments are getting dwarfed by the negatives now and I just don't like her at all any more. You guys can fight with me all you want about how I'm judging her, but I know who I'm dealing with and I literally can't stand to be around her or to see her treat our children with such disrespect as well. If I choose to separate from my wife, how does it work? I move out and we don't communicate, or is that only when infidelity occurs. I don't think it is possible to have this woman cross any romantic threshold in my lifetime, and in looking back I don't think she was ever in love with me. She can't get close enough to people to be in love, she just keeps walls up and honestly I don't feel like I really even know who she is. Good grief give me some tylenol.

I'm gonna go read plan B now. Her father is miserable with her mother and he moved out at one point as well and that got her attention, at least for awhile. Ewwww, makes my skin crawl.

You are very disrespectful of your wife. Are you willing to eliminate your own disrespectful judgements?