So, we have our weekly "pro-marriage" counseling session today. I'm thinking about dropping that and going for the MB online seminar. I just can't wrap my head around spending $700 a month on a counselor that really hasn't helped much. She knew my WS was having an A (which she admitted to during an individual session) but did not encourage her to tell me. Feels kind of like a red flag to me.

Anyway it's mostly just a lot of talk about how we're feeling and how we chose each other based on our fears that we carry from childhood...so in essence we need to settle those fears before we can be happy with eachother. It seems way more abstract than MB. Meeting each other�s EN and avoiding LBs, following policies of RH and POJA? That seems doable. Finding out how my father's As actually set me up to marry a future WW? That seems like nonsense.

WW is amicable to the change, she just doesn't want to go through this recovery alone.

Most marriage counseling is useless, especially in the case of infidelity. Our MC didn't even address the conditions of the affair, extraordinary precautions, or have a plan to create romantic love. Instead, we learned to (supposedly) communicate better and resolve conflicts, neither of which worked very well when we weren't in love with each other.

The MB coach will help you with a plan to restore your love for each other and make your marriage safe for both of you.

If we hadn't found MB, I am sure we'd be divorced by now. At the least, we'd be miserable with each other and I'd be terribly resentful. Instead, MB has helped us create a marriage that is better than we ever had. I'm a big advocate of the program because it works so well when both spouses follow it.

And you are right - all the examination of the past really IS nonsense. It doesn't help to build a better future nor does it help create the plan that will lead to a better marriage. Dr. Harley discourages looking at the past for the reason for our mistakes, because it's not helpful in creating a great marriage.

If your wife will join you in recovery, she will be very pleased with the results. So will you!

Monday morning and I feel compelled to admit to a messed up weekend. I spent most of last week angry and then on Friday sort of snapped out of it. I guess I blew my top more than snapped out. I was looking in her email �sent items� to see some of the messages se sent me years ago while I was on deployment. I wanted to remember so of the messages she sent me. In doing so I found (what I thought to be) an email to OM1 about a month after NC letter. I was shaking with anger and raced home with a script I had worked out during the commute. �I am #*&@! Sick of listening to your lies. You have ONE chance to be truthful to question I already know the answer to. Before you say anything, know that your honesty here is absolutely critical to preserving our marriage.� As soon as I tell her what I found I can see on her face that I messed up. Turns out it was an email to a GF that had the same name as OM1. Sad thing is I later remembered that this was not the first time I found this email and went through this before. I have got to get a grip on my anger.

She forgave me for my error and we actually had half of a good weekend. IC and SF Friday night. RC on Saturday morning with a run in the park. Took the kids to a festival in the afternoon. We scheduled an EN talkthrough on Sunday but never got that far.

While the kids were getting ready for dinner, I was reading �She Comes First� which I believe is really going to help me meet her SF. Problem is I read a line that read something like this: �Oral sex is one of the most intimate acts, generally reserved for the most committed of relationships�. Of course my mind starts to go nuts at this comment, immediately thinking about how my WW A was an �intimate, committed relationship�

Not to be brought down by this, I immediately grabbed my W and the Kids and made it to dinner. I had hoped I would be able to pull out of this nose dive with some light conversation in the car (which wife avoided after sensing my unease). Guess who was in the waiting area of the restaurant�OM2�s twin (actually just his age, body type, and ethnicity). Well that was it. Full anger mode.

I stewed for about twenty-four hours. Didn�t want to talk to W because I knew an AO would happen. Eventually it came out. Three hours of me berating her for being a wh@re and what-not. She was good to take it in stride, I did feel better and we finished the night with some excellent SF.

The point is, I feel like crap that it came to that, but the AO was the ONLY way I was getting out of that dark place. I know the R clock goes back to zero every time, but I�m not ready to move forward until the anger goes away.

The other thought I have is maybe I haven�t got the JC I need for the anger to go away. Up until last week, the only friends she deleted on Facebook were OM2 and an old BF (who she had illicit communications with online recently). Eventually, after one of my AO, she deleted her �friend� which encouraged the affair (actually opened his car door for her and said �have fun�). After another AO, she finally deleted male friends (this, a month after Dday, and only after my request). She still dragging her feet on other �friends� that encouraged the affair. Every time she texts or plays a stupid word game with them, I want to take her GD phone and toss it out the window. She doesn�t seem to understand how her thoughtlessness is causing my anger, or at least contributes to it.

Is there enough JC in the word to make it less painful to imagine my wife laying down with another man? I think if she gives me everything I ask, I�ll still want more. I�ve done some serious thinking into filing for D. I love her, I know she loves me but I can�t waste the next few years being angry. I feel like the last fifteen years are already flushed down the toilet by her A. Lots of good times�gone.

MMM, I am absolutely APPALLED that you stood there and "berated" and love-busted your wife for 3 hours!! How lucky for you that she "took it in stride" and rewarded you with SF afterwards (sarcasm). Do you realize how damaging your anger is to your marriage? How heavily you probably depleted any love she might have started feeling for you? Allowing herself to be treated like garbage is not JC. JC is following EP's and meeting EN's.

Please read this thread Anger Management 101.

Your the only one who causes your anger. Her thoughtless does not!

RQ,

While I am appalled as well, most of that three hours was me crying and honestly talking about how I didn't know if I could take anymore of the highs and lows. The image of me standing there verbally abusing her is not accurate. No excuses...there was some serious LB going on, but she is a kind woman and knows that I am hurting. I am thankful that she is there for me. She is the only one.

While I am responsible for how I DEAL with my anger, I have NEVER been angry in my life before now. This started after her A. She carries alot of responsibility for that. I really am struggling with how to deal with this new emotion.

I've went through the Anger Management 101 multiple times. I'll be honest though, it doesn't cut it for me. Blowing off some steam helps me from wanting to hurt myself.

She did not "reward me" with SF. I calmed down, we talked without LB then she met an EN. There's a narrow distiction there.

Anyway, I think we both have some ideas how to keep my anger from boiling over. She knows she can help by not building up a wall the second I get "funky". I hope to not report a similar story next weekend.

Drat, lost my post. Do you have the book, Lovebusters? Do you listen to the radio program? Dr Harley learned to control his angry outbursts and talks about anger management on his program from time to time.

Here is another good thread to read- RNR2013 is another BH who was given advice to control his AO's
Thread for RNR2013

Are you enrolled in the online program? Or MB coaching?

Will you email Dr. Harley?

What is your plan?

Do you live near the OM?

I had an anger problem that started up after D-Day, too. When we started the online program, that was the one really big love buster my H had about me. He understood that the source of my anger was his adultery, but it didn't help him to feel better about my anger. Every time I became angry with him or judgmental (which I also did a lot of) he did understand but nevertheless, he lost a little love for me.

And, as it turned out, my anger didn't help me feel better either.

Dr. Harley strongly advocates relaxation as the way to overcome anger. Relaxation is not instinctive; relaxation is the result of our logic overriding our emotions.

If you find yourself building up anger, excuse yourself before you say anything hurtful to your wife. Learn to relax in the face of your frustration.

Your wife most likely starts to build up a wall when you get what you call "funky" so she can protect herself emotionally from your anger and possibly even disrespect.

When you find yourself thinking about the A, change what you are thinking about. Do something else, if possible. Replace the hurtful thought with something pleasant in the present. I had to tell myself over and over, "Look how he is acting NOW."

Your wife will find it so much easier and more enjoyable to love you if she feels emotionally safe with you.

Do you have the Five Steps Workbook?

Have you both agreed to follow the POJA? If your wife is on her smart phone playing games that you find are triggers or are against the EPs you have established, then that has to stop. She can always get a "dumb" phone. I've had one for years; they're cheap and make phone calls.

Also, every friend you both have in your live now needs to be agreed upon. Any "friend" that supported her affair should be gone from your lives.

RQ,

I haven't read Lovebusters. Still working on HNHN, making alot of sense. When I was choosing a followup to SAA, I wasn't making any LBs. The anger started a bit after that. It's next on my list.

I do listen to the radio program. Today's call in was VERY appropriate to our situation. In short: My wife likes men, she needs very tough EPs to not form OS relationships. I like how Dr. Harley didn't imply there was anything wrong with the woman who "likes men". She just needs to know that when she sets up her EPs.

I'll take a good look at the thread, thanks

Thanks. I appreciate your constructiveness. I will email Dr. Harley. Right now I'm falling off the wagon twice a week so I'm ashamed that I'm not following his plan very well. I'm getting there.

MMM

Thanks for the advice. If relaxation is logic overriding emotion, it should be right up my alley. I'm part Vulcan.

Good I'm glad you will email Dr. Harley. Will you and your WW be on the show? He will also send you a free book if you're on the show.

I think you should think about moving.

The Five Steps Workbook is a set of questionnaires that guide you in setting up the ways you can meet others' ENs and eliminate love busters. We found the worksheets to be very helpful. The workbook has the questionnaires and worksheets for both HNHN and LB.

My recommendation is to set aside HNHN for now and read LB. That's what Dr. Harley recommended we do because of the affair and all the dishonesty and independent behavior involved AND because of my disrespect and anger after the affair. It's best to end the bleeding first, then work on filling up the love banks.

MMM, I just read thru this whole thread, and have 2 comments:

At one point you said your wife said that she wished she'd taken her secret about the A to the grave. When my FWH said that to me, more than once while we were struggling to recover, I felt he hadn't accepted Dr. H's concept of Radical Honesty, and the reasons it is absolutely necessary. When my husband said he wished he hadn't told me, in light of my pain, it made me suspiscous that he still had secrets. I kept bugging him about the importance of RH (rereading about it together in Dr H's books and online; finally writing him, when verbal discussions led to arguments, how I still felt he was holding something back that was hindering our recovery) until he finally broke down and confessed a final, ugly "trickle truth" detail of his A that was terribly painful, and set us back significantly. It would have been so much easier for me to recover sooner had I had all the details early-on, as Dr H recommends.

This final revelation was as necessary for my husband's recovery as it was for me. For us both it was like the air had finally cleared, and a weight was lifted in our struggle to recover. We finally truly felt open and honest with each other (it actually led me to confess something I had withheld, namely that I had exposed the A to a colleague of his without telling him).

Our D-Day was 3 yrs ago this month, and this final confession was 2 yrs ago next month. I still think of it often, at least once a day if not more, but it is much, much better, and the rollercoaster ride we all talk about is over. It was the most awful thing I have ever experienced, as everyone on this Forum understands.

The second thing I wanted to share is that I think the reason we all have such similar experiences, and a similar recovery timeframe, is that our brains have been injured in the same way. The symptoms match those of PTSD, as you'll see if you read about it. There's even a book someone wrote called Post Infidelity Stress Disorder. I heard Dr H refer to PTSD at least once on his Radio Show, so I'm sure he agrees with this. The nomenclature is the same: all about triggers and flashbacks and anxiety. And the treatment is the same: a combination of drugs and therapy. I managed recovery without drugs, but in hindsight I think it would have helped me through the worst of it. We were able to manage without formal therapy, just using Dr H's tools: the MB website, books, forum and radio show.

Don't be so hard on yourself about your setbacks (sudden bouts of resentment and anger you can't control), we've all been there. Your wife seems to understand this, thank goodness. Just pick up the pieces and try, try again, and trust that in time you will heal. And continue to vent and take advice on this Forum.

MadMind, I never had an anger problem before this either. My anger was also delayed, I think until my grieving process had gotten past the denial stage.

We had also bought HNHN and started with that book first. We read it together each day and had gotten through the first four ENs before we decided to switch to LoveBusters. It took us twice reading through the AO section, plus a bunch of gentle reminders on my thread, before I was able to see any value in stopping them.

Prior to stopping them (and I'm only 3 weeks in on that), the volcano would build up and I'd let loose and then think that I felt better. My H would tolerate them because he felt that he deserved all that and more.

Now he admits that he felt LoveBusted during my AOs. Yikes...I'm going through this pain to try to save my M, not to kill off whatever love for me that he may have left. If we buy into MB and Dr. Harley's viewpoint on the LoveBank Balance....we don't want to keep making withdrawals.

This is not fair. I don't see any other alternatives though. And in reality (since I never had an anger issue before this), anger serves no purpose in any circumstances in life, does it?

For what it's worth, my anger is still there sometimes. Now I am starting to see how bad it is for ME. I'm working on that in earnest by meditating each day and practicing relaxation.

At the expense of the people you love, though!

That's like saying "hurting other people around me keeps me from hurting myself."

Of course blowing off steam - venting - having an angry outburst feels good. Angry outbursts are the one main emotional disorder that actually feels GOOD to the person who has it. But it makes everybody else around them miserable.


Wow, that scares me - she puts up the wall to PROTECT herself. She's entitled to it.

Let's cut to the chase - buy a biofeedback meter and learn to calm yourself down and drive the adrenaline out of your system so that you can stop going temporarily insane and keep your brain functional to solve your problems instead of blowing up about them:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8122_neg.html

Note: I know you said you never had an angry outburst before the affair, but from this post, it sounds like you are planning to have more - which is planning to fail. I would be delighted for the rebuttal to my post here to be many years of you never having an AO again just to prove me wrong!

JC is not the cure for anger, nor does Dr. Harley ever present it that way.

You and you alone control whether you have an AO or not. NOT your wife. She is not the reason you lose control.

You need to do more than get a grip on your anger ... you need to eliminate it. And you are not going to eliminate it as long as you blame your wife or her affairs for your anger.

JC does not include punishment. Your wife deserves the right to build a wall around herself until you are willing to protect her from yourself.

Your marriage can survive her affairs. It WILL NOT recover, though, if you do not eliminate your anger.

Dr. Harley on anger:

Here's more from Dr. Harley on anger. You need to make eliminating your anger your FIRST priority right now. She cannot do it for you.