I'm coming to the end of my rope. I won't say I'm totally ready to divorce but I'm getting there. We've gone to three different counselors both alone and together,marriage seminars,marriage books you name it. But we still have the same issues. Every counselor we've gone to has told my husband he needs to step up to his responsibilities but he does what is suggested for a week or two then slides right back into laziness. I could give you a list of examples but basically he thinks because he works ,he's done. Everything else is my responsibility and my fault if something goes wrong. I probably wont' have a problem with that if he just acted loving towards me. I can be on death's door and he won't lift a finger to help me. I don't claim to be a perfect person I know I'm at fault as well for some of our issues. I'm sensitive and insensitive,disorganized,trying to learn better ways of communicating. When we argue I usually try to start from what I am doing wrong in hopes that we can stop arguing and find solutions. I don't want to spend the rest of my life feeling horribly unloved and arguing. I'm tired of trying to "make" him love me. The worst of it is he's chooses to be so likable and does so many nice things for other people it really hurts. I don't think it's all what I am doing because he acts the same disrespecting ,unloving way towards his children. I do have to give him kuddos he has,after counseling ,like night and day changed his relationship with our eldest daughter. He speaks respectfully to her now and occasionally does loving things for her. She used to say she thought he hated her now I see some healing. I should add I know he can do what I believe will heal our marriage. He was unfaithful back when our oldest were little. I asked him to leave. When I allowed him back in for a few years it was like heaven everything was wonderful then he slowly slid back into laziness again. Any thoughts? The best book I should read? We're currently watching marriage videos each evening (when he knows I'm at my end he will agree to anything... ) but they haven't been at all helpful. I'm beginning to think that I just can not do any more of this. If you are curious what the counselors have said to me is basically I'm too hard on myself and I'm not responsible for what he is doing wrong. I can speak critically and not give enough praise. In my defense I find it hard to praise him for doing 1/10th of the job I have to do. It makes me feel really bitter. I can usually do it for a season and then I explode. I know bad I'm just being honest. I look back over the times like when I had 5 kids all little and at home and I had very serious debilitating health issues but was trying to do the best I could and he gave me a book on the care and feeding of a husband because he didn't think I was doing enough for him. I begged him after the birth of babies to not stay home because I did a lot more work when he stays home (He expected me to cook and clean for him rather then us eating easy meals so I could rest)basically I'm feeling really bitter and that is an issue. When we are good ,we're very good. We both enjoy and love being with each other. It's the responsibilities that have put a lot of strain on us.

Dear Linen,

Have you tried talking to your husband about the way that you are feeling? I know that there was a point where I catered to my wife and lost focus and it pushed her away, right into 5 other mens arms. Sometimes a man needs for you to sit him down open up to him and just cry. Tell him the very thing that you have written here. If he loves you, I truly believe that he will do everything that he can to save the marriage. Maybe once her sees that you are serious about leaving, he will grow up and be the husband that God calls for him to be. But one thing I do know is that you cannot blame yourself for his actions. If you have been a good wife, continue to be that good wife and you wil recieve your blessings. God knows your struggle, hearts desires and in due season will reward you for enduring the storm.

I pray things get better for you and your husband.

Best Regards,
Masons Dad

linen,

Welcome to MB. Sorry for the things that have brought you here.

You have come to the right place. Your current efforts using MCs has probably been a big waste of time as most MCs don't really know how to help a M heal. Their focus is normally on issue of the past and fixing communication. They have no idea how to help you do the #1 thing that will make all the difference in the world and that is to create a romantic loving relationship.

Stick around here starting with the free information that is provided by Dr Harley on this site. If your H is onboard with trying something then introduce him to Dr Harley's concepts as well.

Start by click the Basic Concept link at the top of the page and read, read, read.

We'll be here to give you guidance on what you've read.

BTW I suspect you�ve been miserable because you two never recovered the M like it could have after his affair.

**edit**

Before you heed the advice of those that have just arrived I will tell you an integral part of what you'll learn here will revolve around radically honest and joint agreements. Policy of Radical Honesty (PORH) and Policy of Joint Agreements(POJA). These policies are described in the Basic Concepts. Please read all of the information.

It appears in your brief outline of your M that you've done a lot of sacrificing and that isn't going to improve your M. You have to be able to voice your complaints and then negotiate with your H to find Win/Win solutions to the issues that hurt the M.

You will be encouraged to read the materials and put into practices the principles that Dr Harley provides. They are time proven practices. Those of us that have been here awhile have all used them to improve our marriages.

In addition to Mr.Alias's good advice have you read this?
Start Here First-Welcome Aboard

Have you asked him why he stops doing the right things?

One common scenario is someone learns a/the new way of dealing with things, given the overt or implicit promise that things will get better for them too, only to find that even when they do what their spouse says they want, things don't get any better for them.

If it doesn't get better for him when he's doing the right things, which path will he take? Will he take the low resistance path he was on, or the more difficult path to learning new skills?

If you've approached traditional marriage counseling as trying to fix your broken husband, then you've made two mistakes. First, traditional marriage counseling is seldom successful. Second, your husband is not a fix-it-up project and will resent attempts to fix him, and really resent when he does what is suggested only to realize that things have not gotten any better from his perspective.

I'm not saying that's the case. But as others have suggested, you have to address your side of the street. When he's doing what you want him to do, he most likely needs positive reinforcement so there is a tangible reward for meeting your needs and eliminating love busters.

The best way to do that is for you to do the same. If you have habits or behaviors he's complained about, then knock it off! After all, he was probably saying, "Hey I'm not perfect" which has the implied message that she should just accept this is who I am.

You describe yourself as this contradiction (my term.) Does he find this attractive, or annoying?

Your post comes across as he is the one who needs to do the heavy lifting, but you give yourself a pass with respect to your faults.

I'm not perfect is just a cop-out.

If you want to have the best marriage, you have to do your part and be the best spouse possible. You've been given some good suggestions by others above.

What heavy lifting are you doing in those weeks he's doing the right things? Even if he's doing 1/10th, if he moving in the right direction, he may need positive reinforcement. If that's lacking AND that's one of his top emotional needs, then your failure to provide that reinforcement sends the message that you don't really want what you want. I.E. since she doesn't seem grateful, she must not want what I'm doing, so why keep doing this?

Ask yourself if this is possible.

I'm not saying he doesn't need to step up. I'm asking what you can do to increase the likelihood that when he steps up, he'll continue to make positive gains?

A reminder to posters that the purpose of this forum is to help posters with Marriage Builders solutions. It is not a platform for personal philosophies or opinions. Please familiarize yourself with Marriage Builders concepts before posting or kindly refrain from posting. We appreciate your cooperation.

Enlightened_Ex Offline I actually didn't give myself a free pass I described several ways I had failures in fact some of your advice matched the failures I mentioned. I'm also learning and doing. I don't expect him to change over night but some effort would make hope possible. At this point I feel pretty hopeless. When we go talk to counselors he does what they suggest for a few weeks and I do praise him to the high heavens for every effort. But then as he stops doing things and it turns to more negative actions then positive I do have a hard time not being bitter and continuing positive feedback. That is my failing I need to work on. I can do it for a bit but then I do get bitter. Every single one of the counselors including one psychologist ,we saw told me to stop taking the blame for what he chooses to do. Also every single one said he wasn't take on his responsibilities. So at this point I'm done taking the blame that isn't my own. I'm not perfect and I have my stuff. I do own it. I usually start any discussion with what I could have done better. I'm always the first one to admit wrong and apologize. Obviously your post put me on the defense because I really battle with guilt. Could our problems be me? But so far I've been told he is the one dropping the ball for the most part and I'm still coming to be ok with that.

BrainHurts Thank you I will read through that. I appreciate it!

I agree for a long time I didn't even know I should stand up for myself. Actually it took me a long time to just see some things as being unfair to me. I think he's used to things as they are and doesn't believe me when I say I've had enough. Where do you suggest I start reading? I've just found this forum when I was feeling desperate the other day after a really bad situation. I wanted to vent some where online where no one would know me so I wouldn't vomit all over my husband with my bitterness. I know that is the worst thing I could do but sometimes I still do it. So I honestly don't know anything about the materials here. Can you suggest some where to start? Thank you

Great MrAlias thank you for giving me a place to start. I'll check out what you suggested thank you!

MasonsDad Thanks I was feeling kind of raw from another post and yours was so encouraging. I am trying really hard. Maybe I've failing really hard but I'm trying. If this marriage does fail I really want to have the feeling that I did everything I could. It helps me keep going even when I don't feel I want to when bitterness overtakes me. I have tried talking to him but he doesn't respond. After the affair he was really sorry and clearly didn't want to lose me. He made a lot of effort for a couple of years and things went great. He just doesn't seem to care as much anymore. He still cares or he wouldn't go to counseling with me or any of the other things I've asked we do. But that seems to be a far as he will go. I do need to ask as another poster wrote why? why does he stop? what happens? Maybe I'm doing something? I don't know.

Sorry if I missed this.

When was his affair? Who was the OW?

We've been married 23 years and his affair/affairs? was about 16 years ago. He paid people. I have no idea of exactly what happened I just know he was paying people. I stumbled across it when I noticed something weird on our phone bill and he fessed up to a lot of things. I asked him to leave but we eventually reconciled after going to a familylife marriage conference.

So that is something else I'm always battling in the back of mind since he's struggled with a porn addiction on and off. It's been many years since I "caught" him and he swears he doesn't have an issue but this past six months our sex life went from it's normally very active to about 1/4 of what it was. He did have mono and says it probably that. I've asked him to go the doctor but he wont'. You see why I'm so battle weary? I can't see myself ever wanting to be married again if this fails.

Then to top all of this off with all of our regular on going problems,right now there is a woman younger then me who has serious marriage problems who clearly admires my husband. She's been inappropriate to the point my teenage daughter noticed and commented on it. It's actually a situation with her that brought me here. I've asked him to not go out of his way to seek contact with her yet over and over again he seems to. The young woman's children and mine are friends (She and I are also friends)so we do have regular contact with them even sometimes being at the same activities involving our families. She's even talking now about switching to our church which I dread.

Opinion do you think I'm crazy if I ask him to not seek contact (in other words he can talk to her but don't go walk over to her actively pursing contact) and I go with him to pick up children at their house I get out of the car expecting him to stay in but when the mom walks out ,he gets out and "chats". I really think he did it on purpose because I've been married long enough I can tell some of what he is thinking. My thought when I looked at his face was he knew this was going to bother me,he looked guilty. Maybe I was emotional and read into it I'm not sure but even with that don't' you think he shouldn't have got out of the car? I felt so betrayed because yet again he didn't respect how I feel.
I really know she is like over the top admiring him and I just do not want them to be super friendly. She's done inappropriate things like exposing herself twice now and ,touching him for too long (this is what my dd noticed),made comments like she "needs" him to do stuff for her (she has a husband mind you! I told him no way not happening! he did respect that)Always making comments about how wonderful he is and how she just loves him(she doesn't talk this way about anyone else's husband in our circle of friends)and defends him if I dare share something negative that has happened. In her eyes she acts like he's the second coming and since her marriage is in trouble that scares me. My husband is a great provider and that is area where her husband really struggles. Sometimes I worry about losing him and then sometimes I think how much better my life would be without all his stuff to deal with. I'm so sick of the rollcoaster ride with infidelity,immaturity and then how much the neglect just makes me battle over and over again about how I feel about myself. Am I not worthy of being loved? I desperately want him to love me and being so vulnerable is such a heavy burden to be disappointed over and over again.

He's extremely technical (his field) so I pretty much have to choose to trust him because there is no way to track anything because he would know how to hide it. He is a fabulous liar so that makes it worse. I know he can lie to me and I can't tell. I do know he hates his porn addiction. It makes him sad. He does desire to be a godly man ( He comes from generations of wonderful christian men)I believe but his conscience doesn't always work as well as it should. Sorry I'm rambling I'm actually finding this helpful to kind of get my thoughts in order about what is really bothering me. I honestly would rather find out he is cheating and know then live in this limbo. Especially when he is also failing with the kids and I. Which is also something else I failed to mention he can be verbally abusive and negative. He has improved as I have demanded at least verbal respect for the kids but he still can be incredibly neglectful and unloving. I think that is what drove me here. My emotions are all over the place. I feel like crazy lady and maybe? I'm acting a bit that way not sure if I should be upset with him or I'm just being over the top because of our history.
Obviously I do really care about him. When things are good between us we do really connect. I know he also feels the same way. We make each other laugh. We're good physically. We enjoy each other greatly some seasons. UGHHHHHHH
I'm so glad I stumbled on this site. It's given me a bit of hope. Hopefully tomorrow I can find some time to read through the articles here. Thanks for any imput becuase already I've found some of it helpful. I know I do want to ask why he stops doing right that was a great tip. Maybe if we look at what are the triggers we can find some answers.

You're not crazy at all to want to protect your marriage from this OW.

Read this.
Are "Friends" a Threat to Your Marraige

I also don't think you're marriage has healed from his affairs. What EPs has he put in place?
How have you affair proofed your marriage?

linen I just skimmed your last post. Most of it isn't necessary to read.

To cut to the quick on your issues it boils down to you two learning a new way to manage your R. If you two are really serious then I'd go a step further in reading the free materials Dr Harley provides and get a couple of his books. They are inexpensive and yet valuable beyond belief.

In his books you learn all of his concepts.

- Meet each other's Emotional Needs
- Avoid doing things that deplete your love for each other (LoveBusters)
- Follow the policy of joint agreement where you come to agreement on everything you do in your M.
- Spend a minimum of 15 hours a week have Undivided Attention meeting the 4 most intimate ENs. Conversation, Affection, Recreational Companionship and Sexual Fulfillment.
- Be radically honest with each other.

I�ll start with your example of this OW. This woman is a threat to your M. She needs to be eliminated from your lives. This is something you two need to discuss and negotiate. It is quite possible your H is already involved in an Emotional Affair and EAs are just as damaging to a M as a physical one. You need to put in some Extraordinary Precautions (EPs) to remove threats to your M. If you are married you shouldn�t have friends of the opposite sex. If this woman needs help you should be the one to offer up your help. Your H should have no further contact with her. See if he�ll agree to that. No contact. If he doesn�t then you can rest assured he cares more for her than you aka he�s emotionally involved with her. You will have to snoop to find out what else is going on.

It is quite possible your H may stop meeting your needs because he�s busy meeting hers. Something to consider.

I would also ask this OW to avoid contact with your H. If she is a friend to your M she should understand. If she needs a friend YOU be the friend not your H. Seeing she�s having her own marital issues she should understand. Also invite her to this site. It is for everyone!

This may seem radical but that is what it takes to protect and nurture a M.


Normally we�d ask you to invite your H to come here � but if he�s having an affair we need to put you into stealth mode and we don�t want him knowing what your snooping plans are.

Next time I will be sure to. I only wanted to give this woman some encouragment in her situation. Excuse me if my grammer was not to part, but I dont think it really matters because my intentions were well. I suspect this site is for helping others. If we took more time looking between the lines at what others are trying to do whether looking at the negative, lives could be changed.

Inspite of the posters who focus on the negative and instead of helping encourage others, they cause more grief, I believe you are going to be okay. Things will improve in due time whether it is with your husband or not. I am a firm believer in tell others how you feel and then focus on how you can be better.

Be encouraged because rain only last for a little while and sunshine must come soon after.

Do not blame yourself though. Your Husband is an adult and his choices are his own. You can only affect the outcome on your part and he must do it.

linen, I hate to tell you this, but I bet there is much more going in your husbands secret life than you know about. First off, he has a porn addiction that has never been addressed and secondly, he has poor boundaries around women that have never been addressed and corrected. He is a walking affair waiting to happen and I don't believe a guy with those kind of poor boundaries has not had an affair of some type in 16 years.

He absolutely should end all contact with this woman, but I think more importantly, that you should hire a PI and see what this guy is up to.

Additionally, I would strongly suggest you get STD testing.