Suggestion: if you see that a poster is confused about these suggestions, you can always clear up that confusion and explain why yourself. That would solve the problem.

I do respect that. Personally I don't believe she fully understand the depths of the reasoning behind these extraordinary precautions. Frankly - I don't even believe she understands the concepts behind Category 1 and Category 2 extraordinary precautions. It takes time to learn these new ideas and familiarize oneself to a new way of thinking and then applying them into your life. She just bought the book today. It takes time.

I am.

That is greatly minimizing what has been happening on this thread.

It's not an issue of "not understanding". She is wayward and foggy.

If you want to coddle her, go for it! But don't undermine the work others are doing to try to shake some of the fog out of her.

Far from coddling. It's extremely difficult to:
1. buy a book
2. read it completely
3. understand the depths of it
4. Applying it
5. Accomplish all of this under 24 hours.

If this was the case - we would all be rocket scientists and doctors.

1. I never undermined the work of those posting on this forum - my posts reinforced the concepts (I have read Dr. Harley's work and applied it in my life)
2. Knowledge doesn't get someone out of the fog - knowledge PLUS understanding (the reason's why) disperses the fog.

Not one word that I have posted is contrary to Dr. Harley's books or perspectives. I simply am aware that it takes time to put all the pieces together - just because she doesn't get it this very second doesn't mean she a lost cause and her marriage is forever doomed. Give her a chance to at least read through the book and digest the material.

Did you ever think that because you started running and then met the other man that is why you aren't the same person, that you are emotionally attatched on some level to your other man, you said you dream about him you have his number memorized, doesn't that sound like you may have fallen already and that has given you the high you might be on.....when this happens of course you will justify all your spouses faults to give your the excuse to go down that road........It is time to be honest with yourself.....you are using every excuse in the book to do what you are doing to hold on to that fantasy life and feeling......Your husband doesn't have a chance with you thinking the way you do.
You aren't spending time with your husband how could either one of you be in love anymore.....I don't think your serious about being married and respecting your marriage and the time it takes to have a fulfilling one for both of you, I am sure your husband's depressive state would improve if he felt his wife loved him and didn't just leave him alone all the time.........he will be ripe for his own emotional affair if you keep this up
I want you to read this site for BS's that go through a breakup with an EA or PA it is torture for everyone you will be a totally different person if you cross that line with this guy or any guy......or your husband does because you aren't there for him.
You sound like a person I always call and "I" guy/gal.........always thinking only of themselves and what they get out of life......
You two were different because you didn't fill each others needs and let your marriage become unhappy........you have a shot of doing something great for your life and your husband's give this job the amount of effort and though you give running and I will guarantee you will be blissfully happy with each other........
You can lead and everyone has to in a marriage from time to time when the other doesn't know exactly what to do..........your husband will take his turn some other time in the marriage.
You are living in a fantasy future world that isn't real or doesn't even exist, get back into the present and do something about your marriage listen to the great folks here they know their stuff.......you have stumbled on to a great site and someone must be watching over you and has given you the tools you are going to need, use these people and have a very loving marriage.....read read and learn and be honest when your reading and with yourself............this is how you will change to be the best person you have ever been........
anyone can run............this is the real challenge in your life the only things worth in life are what you do for others.....and what you have left in the end.......You want to go out knowing you were loved and that you loved with all your heart....with a man that you would die for and surrounded by a family you helped create together.........
extra ordinary actions are required for what is worth it in life..........
don't miss this window that has been left open for you........

It takes about one day typically. It doesn't take a long time and most marriages can't afford a great deal of time when there has been such wreckage. Which is why it is important to tell her why and encourage her to read the book. The forum is an essential part of that process because the main impediment is not an incomplete understanding but typically a matter of acceptance. A fogged out wayward doesn't WANT to accept these steps.

I would expect her to reject some measures that are intended to affair proof her marriage and we on the forum can be instrumental in that regard.

No, it is not difficult. We do it all the time. We have helped thousands of people understand the program and develop a PLAN in well under 24 hours, often much less than that. People who are sincere about saving their marriages have no problem understanding the program and creating a plan when pointed to the right resources and given guidance. However, if someone is not sincere, no amount of time will be sufficient. Someone who is here to learn will catch on quickly.

Hopefully, you will allow others to post as they see fit and stop trying to undermine them.

I agree with this totally. She is foggy and thinking of anyway to disregard her BHs feelings for a petty hobby. She has forgotten why she married her BH in the first place. My Spidey sense says she won't be back. She is getting horrible counseling that validate her immoral and bad decisions. She came here for validation and everyone on the forum stuck to their guns (MB Principles). She didn't even read the book IMO cause if she has the truth would of been very clear.

With all do respect MelodyLane, but I have read Dr. Harleys book (Suriving An Affair) and not once does it mention a time limit for the spouse to read his book , understand the material, accept the terms of plans, and make behavioral modifications in under 24 hrs. In fact his book clearly lets the reader know that there will be vacillation and to expect it. His guidance works when followed - but he carefully gives steps and reasons for the steps your following. It's the very basis upon which his plans are founded.
To demand that a WS immediately do something without given a chance to read the material is irresponsible at the least.

I understand the vitriol against a WS from BS, but at the end of the day the goal is to help. As a BS myself it does hurt to know that she has hurt her husband and has yet to learn how to provide Just compensation, but at the same time Dr. Harley teaches not to make demands. The fact that she is here as a WS is a testament to her willingness to learn. Instantaneous changes without true insight and understanding never yield long term changes.

Key word in your first sentence - "understand".
Sincerity and time have no direct correlation. But sincerity and a willingness to learn do.

Don't think I have the capability to stop anyone from posting, and I don't see how voicing my perspective which echo and reinforces the opinions of Dr. Harley, his books and online material undermines the efforts of others on this forum.

At the end of the day are we here to beat WS into immediately accepting things they don't completely understand or are we here to echo the sound principles provided by Dr. Harley and his research/writings?

I agree she is foggy, but I don't think she came here to validate her viewpoint that the affair was right. She admitted it was wrong and she stated that she ended contact with the OM.

As she reads more and learn, she will understand how to end contact according to Dr. Harley's plan, and she will learn how to provide just compensation as well as category 1 and category 2 extraordinary precautions. It's a lot to read - especially if you have a full time job. I had 2 weeks vacation in July and I'm still learning new things everyday.

Sorry but this is getting silly.

It was explained over and over to her why she needed to implement a simple EP that a 10-year-old could understand. She does not need to read the entirety of SAA in order to somehow process that.

You swoop in after she rejects the advice, calls posters "judgemental" (a wayward tactic) and says perhaps she should leave as the forum is making her feel bad and basically tell her that this is a "good idea".

You further tell her that we have confused her by not giving her a "solid reason" (not true!) and suggest that this has turned her off to the forum. THAT is what was out of line and THAT is what you were called out on.

Everythingcracks, thank you for understanding. I was going to pm you but apparently that's not an option here - makes sense I suppose.

Yesterday I was working from home. So was H. We talked a lot. I read 80% of the book, was posting here and was fielding work calls due to a crisis situation. I was sobbing most of the day in between calls. I went to lunch wi H and wore my sunglasses the whole time. This is not a ploy for sympathy, I brought this on myself, but I believe some of you understand that there's a real human behind the screen so I apologize if I came across as a hot mess. In short, it's because I am. K? I'm trying to hold myself and my life together and work on a marriage that's been broken pretty much since we got married - there's a lot I haven't told. It's a tall order. Right now I'm putting in as much work as I can, one step at a time. Cutting off contact with OM was huge, and like Dr. Harley said, it's hundreds of decisions every day, not a one-time thing. The fact that I know his digits and don't call him is not flaunting everything, it's reiterating that no matter what I do, I could still contact him and I don't because I know how damaging it would be for everyone. This is a conscious decision on my part and one I'm not compromising on. It would kill H and therefore me. My A didn't reach the secretive stage and I'm not a liar. The reason I was found out so quickly is because I can't keep anything from H. Two days was all I could do and it was tearing me up.

My H isn't perfect but he loves me more than anyone, and I love him more than anyone too. The hell I've put us through isn't worth any contact, and feelings, any anything.

The judgments I was referring to are the ones that seem to know my motives, what goes on in my therapy sessions, whether I've read the book because I forgot the author's name (yesterday it was a miracle I remembered mine) etc. I know there are patterns to these things, but I'm one person. Everyone's mileage varies. Please listen to the stories before you make assumptions, and be familiar with the concept of self-fulfilling prophecy before you tell someone who they are and what they want. Even well-meaning tough love type of posts could be very triggering.

I do thank everyone for the help and suggestions, I'm out of here now to implement what I can; for the record, most people need a chance to process befor being told what to do. A huge asset in H and I staying together is that he has never told me what to do; he's given me his thoughts and let me make my own decisions to prove whether I really want to stay with him. I was the one who cut off contact with OM, who chose to give H access to my phone, accounts, etc. Feeling like I'm made to do something would've sent me running and made it an insincere gesture on my part. Many will disagree, i think even dr h, and that's fine. I readily admit that I have huge issues with rules and authority. I also don't believe that humans are one-size-fits-all creatures and approaches need to take individual strengths into consideration.

For the record, H and I went for a run yesterday. Running is literally keeping me from losing it entirely right now. Do not underestimate the mental state that people are in when posting here, even if they were the bad guy. I had half a mind to run straight off the bike path into traffic; luckily the exercise helped immensely. He's going out of town for business next week and I'm going with him. I still don't know for sure if we're going to make it; some of our long-term stuff seems insurmountable but I'm going to try like hell.

Again, thanks, I think I needed to be here but I also think I got what I needed to get. I still need to be functional in life as well and the constant posting here would prohibit that. If you havent picked up on it, im a bit of an obsessive sort and staying away from here would be tough.

I wish you all well, I really do.

If I may be so bold, and from the point of view as a BS who is in recovery with my W, 3 years in...

If you found the need START here, you'll soon discover a desire to STAY here.

God Bless.

You said that you have a history of depression, self-medicating, and a hormone imbalance. It seems like you are still trying to self-medicate, but now you are substituting a "runners high" for your previous medications. Clearly, running is not enough to control your depression and correct your hormone imbalance. Please get professional help.

Somebody said in one of the first pages that you were kind of getting the cart before the horse focusing on the how much can I run thing. I think that is true.

You can here because you had an affair, but almost all of your thread is about running. The biggest thing you should be focusing on right now is not how intense your exercise can be but how to help your husband heal from the affair, being 100 percent honest with him, getting a lot of intimate need UA time with him, <<<EDIT>>>>, and reading about how to do just compensation and create precautions. With all of that to do you probably don't have time to be overly obsessed with running anyway.

And I also used to run. I did what Jessica Claire said. I was addicted to the high that comes from constantly pushing the limits. It isn't healthy physically or mentally.

I agree.

When I was a medical student my first procedure I performed alone was a port-cath removal - took me 45 minutes - skin to skin (which is about oh 39 minutes longer than the procedure should take by an expert). Each step had to be explained to me in real-time. The attending I was working said, don't make a move unless I fully understood what I had to do next, and if I don't, ask and he will explain it again. In my field they say you can teach a monkey to operate. If someone doesn't understand something - explain it again. It's simple and harms no one. Just because a 10-year old can understand it, like a monkey operating, doesn't make it simple.

Changing ones character is methodical and take times. Respect that.


There was no swooping.
You are the one who vocalized the word judge-mental (for the record)
Funny, but I'm a BS - but by nature of profession I have to be/remain objective - but carry on.
Never did tell her to leave, she suggested and I supported her decision - FYI it's called respecting ones autonomy (something physicians must do - if a patient want to sign out AMA and they have ST elevations in precordial leads - guess what I can't make them stay)

Never did try and confuse her - only reinforced the principles extolled by Dr. Harley's writings and research.

So what now?? So far you have insulted me by judging my opinions and labeling them as a WS when in fact i'm a BS and echoing the words/opinions of Dr. Harley who practices patience and understanding. You have then used your own lens to distort my words to fit your view point. Is there any end to the depths of your judgement?

Actually, he doesn't cite any timelines. What I am citing is the length of time it takes to understand the first steps to affair proof a marriage and develop a strategic plan. That does not take more than 24 hours when a person is willing. If you feel that other posters are being "irresponsible" you should notify them to the moderators.


Yes and no. Just because a spouse shows up here does not mean he/she has a willingness to learn. Many times they are here to validate an existing stance. That is what we have seen here. I am not sure what you mean by the comment about making "demands" because it has no relevance to this thread. No one here is in a position to "make demands."

Telling a reluctant wayward that it takes time to adopt these changes is destructive and counterproductive. She needs encouragement to do the right things, not excuses to delay them. Her marriage is in a state of crisis after all. She doesn't have weeks or months to implement simple basic steps.

Can we please get back to helping this poster?

Exactly.

Thank you, Mel.