When I married my husband, I wasn't in love with him. But I admired and respected him. He was a Christian and treated me so well. I knew I would be content with him, even without fireworks, since I am so not romantic. Treat me right is what I care about most. Well, immediately after the wedding, it all ended. My heart was broken.
My husband was controlling, bullying, demanding, manipulative,stingy, loud, scary, and completely self centered. He tried to blame it on our getting pregnant with twins immediately, but no decent Christian man would curse out his pregnant wife in the parking lot because she is too sick to drive him somewhere. Or tell her to get a job when her stomach is making peoples eyes pop out its so big. My whole life just seemed totally changed in such a short time. I was told the first time we had sex after the babies, that
"if that was what it'd be like, never mind", I was called a ball and chain around his neck, the wicked witch of the west, so many insults and whatnot.
I made the best of things for a long time, thinking he would change, trying to get him to see, trying to protect myself and the kids from his temper and everything. When you are married to someone and have kids you see their problems and parents and issues and have sympathy. I always tried to forgive my husband. On the inside I think he is a good man, on the outside, he is hell to live with.
Eventually I left, but reconciled. My husband is truly a master manipulator. He always figures it out and promises to change, he's very convincing.Then he changes things up a bit, but its always bad.
The last 4 yrs have been ok. Not great, but he thinks hes walked on water or something.
I've tried everything to forgive him the past and try to make things work, but truly, I married him not being in love, he treated me abysmally, and there are simply no feelings to resurrect. I'm scared to death of the next few years (menopause) and the unrelenting pressure over sex.
For the last four months we have been separated again and he has alternated between being a monster to me (hes very emotionally immature, I've always been the grown up) and then laying on the persuasion to reconcile. I just can't trust him, I'm exhausted and I really would just like to grieve the last 20 years and end it. The kids are grown.
Opinions? I'm very indecisive and he really puts on the show when he wants me back.
I'm so sorry this is so long, I don't really have anyone to talk to.
BTW, I separated from my husband and there never has been nor is there now another man involved. I'd be scared to death to try again,and have no plans to in the future.

Welcome to MB.

What do you mean he puts on a show to get you back? With his words?

Does he show you any actions?

What Love Busters is he most guilty of?

Does he have angry outbursts?

Has he ever been physically/emotionally/verbally abusive?

What do your kids say?

Has he ever had an affair?

During the separation: the show starts after he sees his anger fits aren't working. Then he can go for weeks or months controlling his temper, outbursts, insults, etc. and he really has the ability (well not anymore) to make me think he truly understands what he's done and can seem like a totally calm, rational person. Thats very appealing--I really need calm. During the marriage, he did this also, if he sensed I wouldn't take any more. Unfortunately, once he feels comfortable again, either in the marriage, or if we've reconciled, he can't keep up the act. He has enormous self control and focus when he wants something, but once he gets it? I actually think its more of an obsession.
To answer your ?'s: emotional and verbal abuse definitely. Loud outbursts, keeping me up all night after an argument, telling my children inappropriate and scary things, unpredictable, bullying by yelling or acting threatening. Most of this was in the past.
Not physical. No affairs. As I said, I feel like I'm more of an obsession to him, his every focus is me, whether he's being nice or being crazy. I think he might be on the bipolar side of normal! He's very volatile. But I do think he's normal.
BTW, there are times when things are fine, and he tries to show how much he loves me, but you just never know.
My kids have said many times they wish we were divorced. So much stress and disharmony in a family is hard on them. And two have already moved out and they still don't like it.
My real problem is that I don't trust him and can't really forgive him for the past behavior. It was sometimes abusive and I just can't respect or love someone like that.

BTW, being the more mature of the two of us and having spent my life not believing in divorce, I take a lot of responsibility for him that I probably shouldn't.
Part of my problem is that even though he treated me badly, I still feel guilty for causing him pain by separating/divorcing!
Certainly if i had addressed things in the right way early in the marriage perhaps it could have worked out. But that kind of sounds like blaming the victim, so I just accept that i wasn't perfect and not take the blame.
I have also spent much time in prayer and study. I no longer feel divorce is off the table, but this hasn't made things any easier. I want to do the Godly thing, but I really just don't know what that is.
I am not making any moves legally, just looking for a job and praying and waiting on the Lord.
He might just file though if he gets fed up.

Well you're doing the right thing by being separated from him until he can get his anger under control.

Will he take an anger management program?

Please read this.
What to Do With an Angry Husband

You are doing the right thing by being separated, with that I agree. However, your posts are full of all sorts of disrespectful judgments, such as suggesting you are the grown up (as you say) in the relationship.

Any love buster is an abusive behavior. Just as he should protect you from his LB behavior, you need to protect him from your LB behavior.

Maintaining the view that your the "grown up" and he's not is every bit as offensive and abusive as the things you've indicated he's said.

You cannot on one hand, expect him to address his behavior and still engage in the same behaviors yourself.

YES SHE CAN focus on his behavior. The first thing that has to happen is he eliminates his abusive behavior. Once that is eliminated, she can focus on her side. And no, her behavior is not just as bad as his. Dr Harley doesn't tell couples to separate over a wife's disrespectful judgments. He does tell them to separate over the abusive behavior of a husband, because a wife is not safe. His safety is not threatened, hers IS.

I have not come across anything in Dr H's writings or radio show that suggests that "any love buster is an abusive behaviour". Dr H does not equate the annoying habit of leaving one's clothes on the floor with anger and aggression towards one's spouse, for example. Neither does he say that DJs are "abusive". He does not even call an affair "abusive". What he clearly describes as "abusive" are acts of violence and aggression, such as the aggressive behaviour shown by this husbnad towards his wife, regularly and at a high level.

It is dangerous and misleading advice to tell this wife who is being abused by her H's angry outbursts, his shouting for hours at a time, and his cruelty and neglect, that her writing here, on a forum, that she is the grown up in her relationship is abusive at all, never mind anywhere nearly as abusive as her H's cruelty.

**edit**

I do see that he says that "disrepectful judgements OFTEN make demands seem merciful in comparison, so I accept that Dr H has called lovebusters "often abusive" - not always, as you state.

However, that article needs to be read in context, and in its entirety. Dr H is writing there about using DJs to force your spouse into giving you what you want. He is not talking about describing yourself on a forum as "the grown up" as being abusive, especially since this isn't being said to the spouse himself.

The article talks about growing levels of demanding behaviour and the extent to which they can tip over into abusive behaviour. He does not call all DJs (especially those expressed on a forum, in order to describe the behaviour and seek help for it) as "abusive". The term "disrespectful judgements that rise to the level of abuse" suggest that there is a spectrum. On one end are the DJs that are not abusive, but that nonetheless withdraw love units (when they are expressed to the spouse - not simply on a forum). On the other end are the relentless, demanding and aggressive lectures which makes the spouse afraid. There is no indication here that this wife makes her H afraid to express his opinion, or that she forces him to give into her demands; on the contrary, the abusive behaviour has been applied by him, to her - entirely the other way around.

In the DJ questionnaire contained in that article, Dr H asks each spouse to rate the other's behvious:

Disrespectful Judgments Questionnaire
Circle the number that best represents your feelings about the way your spouse tries to influence your attitudes, beliefs, and behavior. If you circle a number greater than 1 for any question, try to think of an example that you can share with your spouse and write it on a sheet of paper.

1. Does your spouse ever try to "straighten you out?"


Almost Never---------------Sometimes----------Much of the Time
1----------2----------3----------4----------5----------6----------7


2. Does your spouse ever lecture you instead of respectfully discussing issues?


Almost Never---------------Sometimes----------Much of the Time
1----------2----------3----------4----------5----------6----------7


3. Does your spouse seem to feel that his or her opinion is superior to yours?


Almost Never---------------Sometimes----------Much of the Time
1----------2----------3----------4----------5----------6----------7


4. When you and your spouse discuss an issue, does he or she interrupt you or talk so much that you are prevented from having a chance to explain your position?


Almost Never---------------Sometimes----------Much of the Time
1----------2----------3----------4----------5----------6----------7

5. Are you afraid to discuss your points of view with your spouse?

Almost Never---------------Sometimes----------Much of the Time
1----------2----------3----------4----------5----------6----------7


6. Does your spouse ever ridicule your point of view?


Almost Never---------------Sometimes----------Much of the Time
1----------2----------3----------4----------5----------6----------7


The scoring for this questionnaire is simple. Unless all of your spouse's answers are "1," you're probably engaging in disrespectful judgments. Almost all of us are guilty of this Love Buster from time to time; so don't be alarmed if you get some twos or threes. But if your spouse gave you any fours, fives, sixes, or sevens, you're at risk to lose your spouse's love for you because your disrespectful judgments are rising to the level of abuse.

It is clear from this list that it is this woman's husband who actively practices "lecturing" (in fact, what this wife describes is actually haranging, as it goes on for hours at night when she wants to sleep),"talking so much", "straightening her out" and "making her afraid" to the extent that she cannot live with her H. He is the one guilty of DJs that "rise to the level of abuse". Nothing that she has written suggests that she has ever DJd her H to the level of abuse. Nothing suggests that he is afraid to live with her because of her DJs.

She is in danger from him. He is not in danger from her writing on this forum. The comparison is bizarre.

In the questionnaire, contained in that article, Dr H also said

Unless all of your spouse's answers are "1," you're probably engaging in disrespectful judgments. Almost all of us are guilty of this Love Buster from time to time; so don't be alarmed if you get some twos or threes.

Twos and threes should not be causes for alarm - they are not "abusive". Therefore not all DJs are "abusive".

Here is when they are abusive:

But if your spouse gave you any fours, fives, sixes, or sevens, you're at risk to lose your spouse's love for you because your disrespectful judgments are rising to the level of abuse.

There is a spectrum. She is not on the abusive end. He is. She needs help for that.

When a husband's abuse or neglect has risen to the level of causing serious emotional issues for the wife, women in such situations need to hear that they need to be preparing for a separation. This is how Dr. Harley advises them. They do not need to be harped on about their own love busters. They are not the cause of their husband's love busters and neglect. Yes, they should try not to fight with their husbands (avoid SDs, DJs, AOs), but that is while they are preparing for the separation. The message about avoiding love busters should never drown out the crucial message: protect yourself and give your marriage one last chance with Plan B or you are going to wind up crazy, suicidal, or in the hospital. It is that deadly serious. No such woman should be given any chance to think that if she is just a little better in the love buster department that maybe he will come on board. It's just too dangerous.

Dr. Harley says that in any marriage to an abusive person, one tends to respond by becoming abusive themselves. She can do some reading on that while in a safe Plan B and learn how to deal with it IF her husband ever comes on board. The important thing is to protect her.

I'm sorry, I seem to have misrepresented my situation. There have been replies (thank you) mostly about abuse and being in a dangerous situation.
My descriptions of my husbands behavior is from mostly in the past (before 4 yrs ago). Even then,I very rarely ever felt physical danger.
For the last 4 years, my husbands behavior is much improved.
Still problems, but day to day tolerable.
However, I find I cannot trust him and cannot forget the past behavior.
His behavior has permanently altered my respect and feelings for him. I have no hope for a good marriage in the future.
Most recently before I left 4 mos ago, his behavior was worsening and I simply couldn't deal with more chaos.
I am exhausted. I would rather be alone.
But I am conflicted, feel obligated to just stay and be miserable since he has made some efforts.
He is not a terrible person. He was just a really bad husband for so long.

Jane, I talked about abuse, but I was not under the impression that you were in physical danger, so I did not misunderstand your position. I think you ruled out physical danger in response to a direct question, so I was clear on that.

I was talking about his horrible treatment of you, which you describe to this day as still being abusive:

Yeah, SugarCane, his behavior when i left reverted back a lot and was very bad and went on for a couple of months. The last 2 months he has been on his best behavior--of course I have been living somewhere else, so.
I guess I was wondering if anyone else has been in the situation where things were really bad for a long time, so much damage is done, and then a spouse starts trying to improve (and he is trying). How does the spouse who has been so mistreated over the years figure out if its real, if it will last, how to forgive, or if too much damage has been done?
I believe if we reconcile, his behavior will be ok, probably.
But is past mistreatment and my distrust of him enough to divorce over? As I said, I would stay and be miserable if I felt it was the Godly thing to do, but I'm not sure it is.
I believe in divorce when someone is unable to live peaceably with the other.

What about seeing if he will join in a MB program with you? Online program or MB coaching.

BrainHurts, its interesting that everyone suggests counseling of some kind.
I spent years with the books and the church classes and suggesting counseling.
It all sounds so exhausting now, but if I decide to stay with my husband that will definitely happen.
But I truly am not trying to fix my marriage right now, I did that for years. I am trying to decide if my desire to divorce is unreasonable or unjustified, or if I should give it one more go since my husband has at least tried.
I really think i will never get over the first 15 years and forgive him. It sounds terrible, but I'm trying to be honest.

What's different about MB is it isn't counseling.

Read this. What is Marriage Coaching?

Ah this is where MB can work some real magic. Nothing like the POJA for smoking out a false from a real change and the great thing about it is that it won't take very long to find out!

POJA requires true honesty and real trust on both sides.

You need to learn how to use POJA, it is much harder than you would think especially if bad habits have crept in over the years so you might want to wait till you have had some coaching but I promise you, the POJA will shake out a faker like nothing else.

Jane,

There is a concept on MB called just compensation, what could your H give you for just compensation? An apology, a confession, an admission of his own feelings of inferiority which lead to his abusing you, listening to you without judgement?

Would your H be willing to read these forums on MB? I can't say it will definitely help him, but I think many people begin to understand themselves and what they have done to others better when they read this forum. It helped me understand my W.

God Bless
Gamma