How has time effected your memory concerning your WW affair?

What how much can you remember of her affair that you discovered?

How much can you remember what she volunteered to tell and of the answers to your questions.

I have gotten very little information though I remember it all. Though there are many other things from years ago that I do not remember with the same level of detail.

You're feeding it by dwelling on it. If she isn't going to budge with the name, and you can't live with that, then separate. You've been on this problem a long time and yet you say you aren't ready to write Dr. Harley about it yet. Why not? Secondary gain, I suspect.

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From Wikipedia:

"Secondary gain is a psychological benefit of an illness.

Here is how Wikipedia describes the situation:




Primary gain
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The reporting of symptoms by a patient may have significant psychological motivators. Psychologists sometimes categorize these motivators into primary or secondary gain.



Primary gain is internally good; motivationally. For example, a patient might feel guilty about being unable to perform some task. If he has a medical condition justifying his inability, he might not feel so bad. Primary gain can be a component of any disease, but is most dramatically demonstrated in Conversion Disorder (a psychiatric disorder in which stressors manifest themselves as physical symptoms without organic causes - such as a person who becomes blindly inactive after seeing a murder). The "gain" may not be particularly evident to an outside observer.



Secondary gain can also be a component of any disease, but is an external motivator. If a patient's disease allows him/her to miss work, gains him/her sympathy, or avoids a jail sentence, these would be examples of secondary gain. These may, but need not be, recognized by the patient. If he/she is deliberately exaggerating symptoms for personal gain, then he/she is malingering. However, secondary gain may simply be an unconscious psychological component of symptoms and other personalities."

This is more concise:

"Secondary gain is a psychiatric term meaning that a person has a hidden reason for holding onto an undesirable condition. "

3.5 years - not really a lot. There is some fuzz, which is good. But, I have a very good memory, and memories encoded with strong emotion take longer to fade.

This is to be expected. Two factors; how good your memory is, and how much you have to deal with - will effect how quickly you can work through it.

I get stuck sometimes, but I actively redirect when this occurs.


This isn't really a clear question. I can remember some texts I read - but, only a small handful were w/ OM, and the others were whining to her sister and a coworker, and at the time they were told the bare minimum. The song that was OM's ringtone remains a trigger. Locations remain triggers. Other details are not memories, but mental constructions based on details. Those aren't very "static" memories to recall.


Dunno.





Are there still triggers present?


So, having triggers will keep those memories in the present;

The reason he stays stuck is because he has never been told the truth. People who dont' get the truth, tend to stay STUCK for years and years. We had a recent fella who was "stuck" for 30 years. So welcome to your future, TheRoad! [unless of course you start doing something different to resolve it]

Requirements for Recovery from an Affair


Dear Dr. Harley,

I discovered my husband's affair in May. He was very repentant, ended it and has been working very hard on our marriage ever since. I was not familiar with Marriage Builders at the time and I just followed my instincts. I suppose we are in recovery.

But our communication skills are almost non-existent. We only talk about things that are "safe." My husband's idea of dealing with his affair is to put it behind us. I need to talk about it to heal. I am still having nightmares and sleeping little. I know nothing about this woman, including her name. He has refused to give me the information because he feels it is over so what difference would it make now. He has agreed to counseling but has been dragging his feet.

Our communication skills are so poor that I can't even bring up his affair for fear of "rocking the boat." He will not read any books or discuss the reasons for his affair with me. I am terrified it will happen again.

We went for a few counseling sessions over a year ago (before affair, communication issues) and it was a disaster. It was so much psycho-babble that neither of us could stand it. Where should we go from here?

Please advise.

K. R.

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Dear K. R.,

The plan I recommend for recovery after an affair is very specific. That's because I've found that even small deviations from that plan are usually disastrous. But when it's followed, it always works. The plan has two parts that must be implemented sequentially. The first part of the plan is for the unfaithful spouse to completely separate from the lover and eliminate the conditions that made the affair possible. The second part is for the couple to create a romantic relationship, using my Basic Concepts as a guide.

I'll describe these two parts to you in a little more detail.

The first step, complete separation from the lover and eliminating the conditions that made the affair possible, requires a complete understanding of the affair. All information regarding the affair must be revealed to the betrayed spouse, including the name of the lover, the conditions that made the affair possible (travel, internet, etc.), the details of what took place during the affair, all correspondence, and anything else that would shed light on the tragedy.

This information is important for two reasons: (1) it creates accountability and transparency, making it essentially impossible for the unfaithful spouse to continue the affair or begin a new one unnoticed, and (2) it creates trust for the betrayed spouse, providing evidence that the affair is over and a new one is unlikely to take its place. The nightmares you experience are likely to continue until you have the facts that
will lead to your assurance that your husband can be trusted.

An analysis of the wayward spouse's childhood or emotional state of mind in an effort to discover why he or she would have an affair is distracting and unnecessary. It takes precious time away from finding the real solutions. I know why people have affairs: We are all wired for it. Given certain conditions, we would all do it. Given other conditions, however, none of us would do it. So the goal of the first step is to discover the conditions that made the affair possible and eliminate them.

After the first step is completed, the second step is to create a romantic relationship between you and your husband using my 10 Basic Concepts here
as your guide. While your relationship may be improving, it won't lead to a romantic relationship because you are not being transparent toward each other. Unspoken issues in a marital relationship lead to a superficiality that ruins romance.

Your nightmares are only the tip of the iceberg. They are but a small reflection of the suffering you experienced when you discovered your husband's affair, and the fear you have that the suffering will be repeated. You have no assurance that the affair is over because you don't even know who the other woman is. You are being asked to trust your husband, who has already proven to be untrustworthy. For all you know, he could be working with her, or you could be going to the same church, or she could be your neighbor. And since he won't discuss the details of how the affair took place, you have no assurance that another affair will not take its place.

Infidelity is not something that can be swept under the rug. While those who have affairs want to forget about it and move on, those who are betrayed must take very specific steps before they can fully recover. In your case, those steps have not been taken, and as a result, your fear persists. I will send you a complimentary copy of my book, "Surviving an Affair," if you send me your address. It will describe these two steps to you and provide you with a roadmap toward full recovery. But the path will require full disclosure of all details.

Best wishes,

Willard F. Harley, Jr.

I have posted the above article about 500 times in the years TheRoad has been here, by the way. I am of the belief that when people have the same problem for years that they aren't really looking for solutions.

I think I understand, now. You want your wife to tell you prompted by some enlightenment in her that she should do it because it is the right thing to do. Whatever you can do, like a polygraph, is not the point so much as for her to tell you willingly. Is this close to your perspective on it? If this is what you're waiting for, you may be waiting for Godot.

TR, what is your goal, here? Why are you asking these questions ? The posters might be able to help better if they had a little background.

A lot of hot air.

And:

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I want to see how much a WW can truly remember and not remember.

I want to see how much a BH can remember or forget.

When a WW says she forgot it all, I buried it. Can they work at recalling what happen?

I want my wife to answer every question.

Though I can not push myself at this point to make a stand. To say answer my questions or else will not work unless one is willing and able to do the or else. Even if get up the steam to phrase it as I need to know because not knowing keeps me from leaving that time in the past. And my wife still refuses to talk. I still am no place further. Or claims she no longer remembers. I still do not know she is telling the truth if she does not remember.

By seeing what others can remember gives me insight on what my wife can recover.

But what difference does it make if you are too scared to ask her? It makes no difference. You have chosen to live like this so exercises like this are exercises in futility since you aren't willing to do anything about it.

Your WW has obviously refused to answer your questions to your satisfaction, and you are reluctant to insist that your questions be answered. You are approaching the board to ask the WW's to answer questions that might help you. TR, surely you know that any answer given to you is an answer from a WW who is not YOUR wife. No matter what you are told, you will still be left with questions that YOUR wife needs to answer.

I get the impression that these questions are important to you (as they should be) but that you have been cowed into shutting up and moving on. In effect, she has swept the affair under the rug and wants you to do so, as well. You know from your time on this site that sweeping the A under the rug will only allow the wound to fester.

You need to have her sit for a polygraph. You know that. I will assume that you are fearful of her response to your requirement for a polygraph. That should tell you something. She should be glad to sit for a poly if it will help you. She's telling you now that she will walk if you pursue having your questions answered.

Here's my question for YOU: are you willing to live with a woman who is hiding things from you? I suspect you are not. So...what are you going to do about it?

So...what are you going to do about it?