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Hello,
I am new here but have really been wrestling with a question and would appreciate the views of anyone having gone through something similar.
My husband of almost 20 years started an emotional affair last May (via email) with an old girlfriend from high school. We had a death in the family in February, and not long afterwards, my husband's affair with this woman became sexual. She is a trained grief therapist and I firmly believe she used her skills as a therapist to go in for 'the kill' when my husband was at his weakest.
In May he ended the affair after realizing he wanted to be with me and was trying to recreate our relationship with her. In June, we began the long, painful process of rebuilding our marriage. Things are actually going really, really well and I am very happy that we have this second chance. I love my husband more than anything and I can see the things I did - both of us did do and didn't do - that led to this infidelity.
There is one problem - my husband also feels terrible about how much he hurt the other woman. In an effort to 'let her down gently' he told her something that goes like this: "you are the true love of my life and always have been but I need to go back to my terrible wife for the good of my children."
I hate this and it eats away at me. Am I wrong to want my husband to tell her the truth?
My husband says he does not want to cause more hurt. I agree that I do not want him to be a person who is willing to hurt others. He also says I only want him to tell her the truth in order to cause her pain. I partly agree with this. I DO want her to feel at least some of the pain I have to cope with every minute of every day. After all, I did nothing and she actively went after my husband. Why is the pain all mine to bear?
But also, I think her belief that my husband still loves her and - in a perfect world - would be with her instead of me is very upsetting. It torments me, actually. I also think, on some level it makes her a threat. She waited 30 years to have this chance with him...obviously she would be willing to wait another year or two to see if she can have another chance with him in a new moment of weakness. I hate the idea that she is sitting out there waiting for my kids to turn 18 so she can take another try...I hate that she thinks he is miserable with me. I hate that her feelings seem to matter more than my own in this situation. Though will I really feel better if she knows the truth?
I really, really hate that there seem to be two truths here: the one she believes and the one I believe. it makes me wonder which truth is the true one and I somewhat feel that if he corrected the version he gave to her, that maybe this would make my version more true. Does that sound silly and petty? Maybe it is.
I do have evidence that this woman was truly evil and manipulative in her efforts to offer my husband an escape from grief and I do not feel that her feelings should matter at all. Further, I feel that allowing her to think she did nothing wrong, that he is suffering with me and dreaming of her, is actually keeping her from achieving true redemption for her deeds and also, may be interfering with her willingness to get back with her husband.
In truth, though, deep down, I just want two things: for there to be only one truth about this in the world, and yes - for her to suffer at least a billionth as much as I have suffered. Am I wrong to want this? Genuinely, I just want to know. I think I could force my husband to do this - tell her the truth - but should I make him do something that will only add to his feelings of guilt? Should something be done if it's main purpose is just more pain? Maybe the best thing to do is to forgive her, forgive him and let it go. I wish I could. I want to. It has been three months of me trying so hard...will this help? What do people think?
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Joined: Nov 2010
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Welcome to MB. Have you read this? Start Here First-Welcome Aboard Did he ever write a NC letter? Have you been tested for STD/I? Is she married? Did you expose?
FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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My advice is to write a final letter in a way that the victimized spouse would agree to send it. It should begin with a statement of how selfish it was to cause those they loved so much pain, and while marital reconciliation cannot completely repay the offense, it's the right thing to do. A statement should be made about how much the unfaithful spouse cares about his spouse and family, and for their protection, has decided to completely end the relationship with the lover. He or she has promised never to see or communicate with the lover again in life, and asks the lover to respect that promise. Nothing should be said about how much the lover will be missed. After the letter is written, the victimized spouse should read and approve it before it is sent [from SAA, pg 58] OW, I want you to know that out of respect and love for my wife and children, I have come to realize that I must never see or talk to you again. My relationship with you was a cruel indulgence that BS did not deserve. While I cannot completely repay BS for the pain I caused her, I will do my best to become the husband she has been missing. I care a great deal for my family and I would not want to do anything to risk their happiness. I will not make any further contact with you and I do not want you to make any contact with me. Please respect my desire to end our relationship. Sincerely, XXXXX
FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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This woman is a trained counsellor and therefore needs to be exposed to her colleagues, family and friends. Just think of all the hurt she could be causing to other families! She sounds like a professional vulture.
Also you know full well that she's simply been ordered to stand to one side until your children are grown. You need to close that gate.
Dr Harley says he has seen many highly successful and happy marriage recoveries where the WH has gone back to the OW after as much as 20 years. Simply because that gate back to the A was left open. Don't underestimate the draw of the OW. She will always represent an unattainable fantasy of perfection.
I'm afraid your H hasn�t been radically honest with you. Probably to avoid 'hurting' you, just as he doesn�t want to hurt her.
The truth is waywards don't really want either the A nor the marriage to end; they want both. While the daydream of their 'true love' lives, he has both your love and her love.
He still has all the options left open to him, which I am afraid keeps him in active wayward mode rather than former wayward mode. He could go back to her at any minute! And you are not being very protective if you leave it that way.
After you have exposed the OW, you need to call up yours and your H's nearest and dearest. Tell them of your struggles and successes overcoming this A. Ask for their love and support in making sure this never happens again. Even if they are harsh people, you need their eyes on this issue.
Read up on the exposure instructions and come back here with your exposure target list. Don�t threaten exposure to your H, and don�t negotiate for his permission. Those discussions will cause massive lovebank withdrawals, and as someone who remains in secretive affair mode he will not have a sensible view of the situation. Keep it short and sweet and just do it.
This is imperative for your healing and for protecting your marriage. Countless other marriages too, I should imagine.
Just do it without telling him and say no more to him about it afterwards than that you needed it to be done.
Then using your supporters I would urge him to get started on that NC letter. When the issue is in the sunlight and everyone is telling him how he needs to undo the pain, he will be a lot more receptive.
Without exposure, waywards remain in the fog.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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my husband also feels terrible about how much he hurt the other woman. In an effort to 'let her down gently' he told her something that goes like this: "you are the true love of my life and always have been but I need to go back to my terrible wife for the good of my children."
I hate this and it eats away at me. Am I wrong to want my husband to tell her the truth?
My husband says he does not want to cause more hurt. This chivalrous, protective of the OW attitude is typical of the fog. If you read the words of the truly former waywards husbands here , they do not speak of the OW like this. In pre-exposure fog waywards view the A as a proper relationship and the OP as an innocent, loving partner. Post-exposure they are more likely to view it as a shameful act, as a disgraceful episode and view the OP as a co-criminal in need of intervention, not protection. I agree that I do not want him to be a person who is willing to hurt others. I hope you have not said this to your husband. Do not encourage this view of dishonesty as 'kindness'. He is still being dishonest with you as a 'kindness'. It was using her as his mistress, not honesty about that fact, which was unkind to her. Putting the OW on the backburner for later and maintaining his good guy image with her is not kind! It is vain. It is ludicrous to talk about 'hurt' when all the hurt has already been perpetrated. The truth does not hurt people, it is affairs and lies which hurt people.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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Whenever a betrayed spouse tells me that they've just discovered their spouses affair, my advice is almost always the same: Let others know about it. Tell your children, family, friends, clergy, and especially the lovers spouse, if they have one. And this is even to be done during what I call plan A (making an effort to make as many Love Bank deposits, and as few withdrawals as possible).
The problem some people have with that strategy is that it conflicts with the goal of plan A because it's likely to cause massive Love Bank withdrawals. An unfaithful spouse almost always considers such exposure to be a worse act of betrayal than their affair itself. But the alternative, helping the unfaithful spouse to keep the affair a secret, is enabling the addiction, prolonging the agony. In the long run, making the affair public knowledge without any forewarning, threats, or bartering (which by themselves can create massive withdrawals) actually reduces the number of Love Bank withdrawals made by the betrayed spouse.
It's my opinion that the advantages of immediate exposure usually far outweigh the disadvantages. Am I right in thinking this poor woman's betrayed husband is still completely in the dark? And your H prefers them split up? Disgraceful.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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This is what a truly repentant FWH sounds like. Gloveoil experienced full exposure and credits it with waking him up from the fog. Typical Virginia winter… gray/brown, damp, too warm to snow, but too cold to leave your coat unbuttoned. It was a Wednesday.
It was an ordinary morning for me. But my “ordinary” had changed. Over the past few weeks, it had become pretty ordinary on most days for me to get a voice-mail or phone call at around the time I got to the office or shortly thereafter. She was a stay-at-home mom, and she often liked to call me once her husband had left for work.
This day, I got to the office a few minutes late, and saw that I’d missed a call from her. Sometimes she left a voice-mail, sometimes not. This time, she didn’t. Uneasy as I was at fleeting times with the whole sordid thing, I was usually happy for the diversion of conversation with her, but this day I had work to do, stuff piled up from the holidays, and an overseas trip looming in under 3 weeks.
So I didn’t call her back like I often did. We’d spent a lot of time together the previous week, and meanwhile, things weren’t going well for her at home. She and her husband had gotten into another fight on Sunday morning before church. Or maybe Saturday night – I’m not sure I got the whole story from her.
I’d told her we ought to let things go cold for a spell, because she kept getting uneasy feelings that her husband might be onto something. Maybe we should cool it for a few weeks – even break it off if we had to (after all, we were adults; we could quit any time, right?); but we could leave it open-ended, keep our options open.
But every time she sensed me getting cold feet, she’d call back in a day or so to say that things were better at home, that the suspicions she’d voiced earlier now seemed unfounded and he seemed oblivious. Which was certainly what I wanted to hear. I’d told her weeks earlier that I wasn’t into breaking up anyone’s family – mine nor hers. (I somehow convinced myself that there was a smidge of decency in that nuanced stance. Oh, my God, that’s how far gone I was!)
Sunday night, she’d left a reassuring voice-mail on my cell, saying that things were smoothed over. Monday we’d chatted and she wasn’t as sanguine -- she talked again about feeling trapped in her marriage and about wanting to consult with a lawyer, just to learn about her options. I felt a pang in my gut. Dammit, I’d gotten myself hooked. Again, I tried to buck her up, to encourage her to smooth things over with him, because if she were to get divorced, well, she’d be free, and that’d mean she wouldn’t be satisfied any longer with a part-timer like me. Here I was, a married, 41-year-old father of two, and I was afraid of getting dumped by my affair partner because it would hurt! This couldn’t get any more f*d up, so why not just keep riding the merry-go-round and see what happens, I must’ve thought. Or something inane to that effect.
So we weren’t sure where it would lead, but I wanted to believe that nothing was pressing us to decide. So thought I. I was happy to keep having my cake & saving it too.
Around 9:30am, she called back. “I need to talk to you.” I said I was busy and asked if I could call her back later, but she seemed anxious and said she wanted to see me that morning. I couldn’t; I had a meeting at 11:00 and a lot of work to do. I demurred, but she was weirdly insistent, even for her. “Just tell me what’s up,” I said. No, she wanted to see me, not talk about it over the phone, whatever "it" was. She was starting to sound kind of desperate. Finally she gave up and whispered: “[He] knows.”
Her husband, that is.
“About what? The e-mails, the phone calls? Or everything?”
We’d been somewhat discreet in our e-mails, until the last few days when she’d gotten a little sloppy. For a final couple of seconds, I tried to console myself with the optimism that it could all be explained away as something less than what it was. That we could somehow tie it all to the time we’d spent (and there had been quite a bit of it) practicing and talking about music together.
“Everything.”
My world stopped.
We talked a few minutes more, as she explained how he knew. I relented and told her to come downtown; she’d be in on the subway in about an hour and 15 minutes. The next few minutes were a blur. I closed my office door, sat at my desk and held my head in my hands. I couldn’t believe this was actually happening. And I’d brought it all upon myself.
He’d hired a private investigator. Keyloggers, in-home wiretap, the whole schmear. I knew she’d given him ample reason already… her leaky alibis; the long-distance affair she’d carried on with her ex-BF from Florida, from which she segued into chasing me. Being clumsy when closing out her browser windows while we were IM’ing. Always wanting to stay past the times we’d agreed upon, so that she’d get home late. Her husband would call, asking where she was, and I’d stand there and listen in silence, while she made up some lie about being out shopping and getting stuck in traffic, and there being some kind of accident at the intersection up ahead, etc. And God knows what suspicious behavior she’d done that I didn’t even know about. The previous evening, Tuesday, he'd confronted her.
I had to tell my wife. OW had begged me not to. She wanted to see me, to make her pitch face-to-face. But even as stupid as I was, I knew it was played-out, and finally had to end now. I knew I had to make a call – it couldn’t wait another minute.
Somewhere during this, there seemed a flitting sensation of relief. But it was the relief of jumping off a height in complete darkness... no longer being stuck up there, but having no idea whether anything was going to catch me, or whether it would be far preferable if nothing did.
I moved the phone closer so my shaking arms could make my fingers hit the numbers. I felt like I was hovering above the room, watching myself, or watching someone else.
_________________________
I reached her at the hospital, where she was about three hours into her day-shift. Just an ordinary day for her. Probably just an ordinary phone call. I said “I need to talk to you.”
And there, over the phone, I sucker-punched her right in the stomach. Told her I’d gotten mixed up in something awful, that I'd been in an affair. She hesitated, then asked “With who?” And before she could even catch her breath, I told her --which is to say, I punched her right in the face, the girl whom I’d sworn to cherish and honor.
I tried to tell her that I'd chosen her, not OW. (Thinking to myself, Way to go, GloveOil, you worthless jerk... Where was your choosiness back in October when this all started?) I don’t remember what else, other than begging for forgiveness and saying I was so sorry. Over the phone, I could hear her laboring just to breathe. She said she had to go, and hung up. I felt so totally alone in all the world. At the time, I was still all about me, and I probably didn’t even try to imagine what she must’ve felt -- the woman to whom I’d promised “forever.”
And her world had turned upside down.
I can never get to the center of that pain of hers. In truth, I never want to. Many of you have felt it firsthand and know better than I what I’m talking about.
I started to pray, but I caught myself. Who was I kidding, that God would give me the time of day? I’d spent the previous two months' Sunday mornings singing songs praising Him, while standing shoulder-to-shoulder with Guess Who, with both of our spouses out there in the congregation, both of us together there among the music team, getting deeper into trouble all the while, willfully ignoring the unimaginable hypocrisy of it all, and stupefyingly persuading ourselves that the truth would not out.
I got someone to take my meeting, and told my boss I had an emergency at home and needed to leave for the day. OW arrived downtown and we met in the subway station and sobbed with no dignity. We composed ourselves a little and she wanted us to find a caf� or a park bench to talk, but I said I had to go home. I told her I intended to beg for my wife’s forgiveness, beg her to keep me. She got angry when I told her I'd already called TWC -- she’d begged me not to tell my wife. She actually thought she could persuade her husband “not to make things messy” – she had a college degree, but her stupid brain was still feebly trying to find some way to keep the door open for our affair. On the train back to the suburbs, she was all crying, and begged me to run away together with her, and said we could make each other so happy. I was numb. I knew I couldn’t be happy without TWC and our family. And what about OW’s own daughter? Did she mean to run away from her child, too? How could she think that we could be happy?
I took advantage of her one last time, not in the awful way, but for transportation—I asked her to give me a ride from the subway station to the feeder bus lot where my car was parked. And I went home to wait for TWC to come home from the hospital.
It was January 7, 2009.
_________________________
I’ve never put all this out here before. I didn’t show up here on MB until 8 months after d-day. In the interim, TWC and I got lucky with the first marriage counselor I tracked down, from a list our pastor had sent me. The MC insisted that we get “Surviving An Affair,” and it became our text. She helped mediate our conversations. She gave us practical homework. She got me to shut up and listen when I should listen, and she got me to talk to my wife calmly.
This post is not our recovery story. Elements of that story, and lessons we learned, and which we hope may be of some benefit or caution to others, are elsewhere here & there, scattered among our 600-some posts. My first couple months’ worth of posts were lost because of the October 2009 server crash. We’d done better than OK by August 2009, but there was still some stuff in there that makes me cringe, and still a lot of stuff in my head that I didn’t feel I was getting anywhere with. Mostly, I had only circled around, but hadn’t gotten to the core of, how selfish I’d been.
So I am glad for the 2x4s that I got back then. I am grateful for the people who kept me focused on TWC’s feelings. I’m grateful for LousyGolfer and HPB (tst) who gave me some sort of advice that I must’ve followed – they’ve given the same advice to others. I’m grateful to Tawandabelle for her words of compassion, and to MelodyLane, who explained that guilt could actually be my friend – that was a minor epiphany for me. I’m grateful for Mark1952’s wonderfully articulate and carefully thought-out advice on memories and triggers. I’m grateful for some lady whose screen name I can’t even remember, but who sat up typing a long message (well, not as long as this one!) even though she was on painkillers and was typing with a broken shoulder, to root for me and my wife and to point out where she thought I still sounded foggy. I’m even grateful in some weird way to a couple of posters whom I won’t even call out, as just about everything they posted to me was so rude, unconstructive and/or downright profane that it got edited out by the mods; in their own way, unintentionally, they helped me see just how deep a BS’s pain can be, and how it can change people if a WS doesn’t go all-in on trying to make amends. And that was all in the first 10 days or so, months before I got up the nerve to bring TWC around to the site for the first time. (And she got a little upset with me at first then, because she saw this little posting habit, which I’d just revealed to her, as being Independent Behavior -- before she dipped her toes in and saw what you all were about.)
A lot of my recounting of that awful day two years ago is from the only standpoint that I can recall it from, which is my own. But I know it wasn’t about me. I know I can never get to the center of that pain which I caused.
I haven’t spoken of OW’s husband, who deserves more and better than these few words. I’d known him and OW for over two years before OW and I ever started to slide into our improper friendship, but I didn’t know him well – hardly at all, actually. I’d thought him rather reserved, ill-at-ease in casual conversation, shy perhaps, but we might’ve been friends. He was good at his job, polite and mild-mannered, well-dressed, well-spoken, and had never had an unkind word for me. If there were any defect in his character or conduct – she claimed he drank and was a workaholic and neglectful (and I now know that I can place little credence on anything she said) – in retrospect I’ll say no one could blame him, for look what he was living with! I have never apologized to him, except through our pastor in the weeks immediately afterwards. The vast preponderance of advice I’ve since read on the matter says that any benefit of apology from an OP to a BS is outweighed by the dredged-up pain of contact with the OP, and that no apology will be seen as sincere, and thus that while a (F)WS must be willing to offer an apology, he/she should not be so inconsiderate as to actually convey one, especially after this much time has passed. But if I should live to be 500 years old, I will never be so sorry for anything, aside from how I hurt my wife, as I am for how I must’ve hurt him.
They separated, and were divorced 11 months ago.
_________________________
In some way, it feels as though TWC and I have been through a war. In history books, it’s said that wars have winners, insofar as countries or causes are “winners.” However, the memoirs of soldiers who fight wars, or civilians who live through them, say that wars have no winners at the level of the individual. Yes, those on the “winning” side are glad to have "won", because they know the alternative would have been even worse; but they think of the loss and the pain bound up in it all, and it leads them to quiet tears, not cheering and confetti. The soldiers, and the innocent civilians, too, just tell of simple gratitude for having lived through what others did not survive, and they tell of being mystified as to why they were chosen to live while others didn’t make it. That’s kind of how I feel today. (Except for having and deserving none whatsoever of the honor which nations attach to their soldiers, and for deserving quite the opposite of honor.) Mostly, I’m just grateful, and couldn’t be otherwise. All these MB principles are worth their weight in gold, but unless TWC had seen her way to forgive me, I’d be out on my [censored], alright. That forgiveness is a mystery I may not ever get my arms & brain all the way around, but I’ll take it.
This morning, my wife e-mailed me this:
“Hello, my love. It's January 7th and it's just another day: no sadness, no triggers, just a day when I am in love with my husband and so very thankful for him in my life.”
Can you believe that? Just an ordinary day.
I don't deserve it, but you bet I'll take it.
[/quote]
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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Wow - thanks for all of the info!
The day I found out (end of March) I posted everything I knew on Facebook. Her (teenaged) kids found out this way (which her husband later thanked me for). I then (next day) found her husband online and emailed him. He had just found out as well and could not speak for the first three phone conversations we had without crying. I emailed all of our family members.
My children and I wrote statements about how we felt and sent them to them both and also to her husband who shared them with his kids who then wrote their own responses. She kept trying to communicate with my kids using therapist-speak. Luckily my kids (17 year-olds) are amazing and saw through every fake word she wrote; this OW is incredibly manipulative but not to those who see through her cliche-ridden fake-feelings, I-am-better-than-you BS.
For the next month my husband and I generally only communicated over an expensive trip my son wanted to take in the summer. It wasn't good and we argued a lot, but I also kept (maybe once a week) telling him that I knew he didn't want to be 'this guy'; I knew he was a better person than this and that I was willing to work with him to save our marriage. By May he had come to his senses. It took me a month to be able to hear what he was saying, even still.
How much hatred I have for the OW scared me sometimes. I hope I never run into her in public. I think I would lunge at her like a wildebeest!
Anyway, I didn't get tested for STDs as she had been married for 20-something years and her husband felt she had been faithful. I think this is true. She has been pining over my husband for nearly 30 years. That is why I hate that she still pines, among other reasons.
I only recently begun reading about how to survive an affair as it really has just been since June that I was sure we were going to be able to salvage our marriage.
So, he should send this letter, then? That is a normal thing to do? He has already told her not to communicate with him and she doesn't. She tried a few times in July but nothing since.
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Also - just to add: my husband is extremely remorseful and has tried so many things to make our marriage better. He bought me a new wedding ring, he smashed the iphone that held her contact information, he has arranged to work in a different city, and a zillion other things. He does what I ask him to do, he is genuinely sorry and he clearly never wants to be in this situation again. Every day that goes by I feel more and more sure of his motives and sincerity.
That being said - I think there is a grain of truth in the idea that he might enjoy knowing she loves him and wants to be with him and this may be why he is reluctant to have her know his true feelings for me.
As I said before, I think he would do this but I know he does not want to do it I dislike the idea of forcing him. I have suggested it about a hundred times...I kept hoping he would do it on his own. He knows it would be a huge benefit to us - to rid her from our lives once and for all. It isn't more pain for pain's sake: the more I think about this the more I am certain that her husband would appreciate such a thing as her love for another man is no doubt standing in the way of their reconciliation.
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You have actually committed the most common adultery-recovery mistake made - you gave "forgiveness" to your cheating spouse neither understanding, nor enforcing, the requisite "Just Compensation" elements. In the main, there are three parts: 1) A complete, rigorous, stern, no-nonsense "No Contact" letter such as has been presented to you above. 2) Extensive and comprehensive Extraordinary Precautions arrayed against any possible contact between POSOW and your entire family (She's contacting your KIDS ?!?  ) 3) Commitment to the MB Recovery Program, which will convert the failed union into a superior one. The pair of you has failed (you through ignorance, him most likely through disgusting, fog-influenced intent) to achieve/accomplish the first two, which really are pre-reqs to kicking off the third. Now is the time to correct those failures, and start doing "infidelity recovery" with purpose and assurance. Sorry you have the need to be here, but glad you found the right place to be....
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Also - just to add: my husband is extremely remorseful and has tried so many things to make our marriage better. He bought me a new wedding ring, he smashed the iphone that held her contact information, he has arranged to work in a different city, and a zillion other things. He does what I ask him to do, he is genuinely sorry and he clearly never wants to be in this situation again. Every day that goes by I feel more and more sure of his motives and sincerity.
That being said - I think there is a grain of truth in the idea that he might enjoy knowing she loves him and wants to be with him and this may be why he is reluctant to have her know his true feelings for me.
As I said before, I think he would do this but I know he does not want to do it I dislike the idea of forcing him. I have suggested it about a hundred times...I kept hoping he would do it on his own. He knows it would be a huge benefit to us - to rid her from our lives once and for all. It isn't more pain for pain's sake: the more I think about this the more I am certain that her husband would appreciate such a thing as her love for another man is no doubt standing in the way of their reconciliation. Every addict, in their rational moments, realizes the destructiveness of their addiction and wishes they were free of it. Unfortunately, that really doesn't help all that much. Things have to be done to wrench the source of the addiction away from the addict, and make it impossible for them to ever feed that addiction again. That is what you are up against here. Your husband is addicted to this OW. Don't think for a moment that he can get out of this on his own. Don't underestimate the power of the addiction. You are the only one who is really capable of thinking here. Your husband is incapacitated in this regard. Don't listen to fog babble. Get to work figuring out how to make it impossible for him to continue this affair, and to be fully accountable to you. Don't just believe things because you want to believe them. Verify everything. The goal is to totally excise the OW from your lives. Stop getting drawn into comparing his feelings for the OW with his feelings for you. You are real; the OW is fantasy. Your husband is a babbling addict. Stomp the affair dead. Then your husband will come out of the fog, and you will be able to rebuild your marriage.
me-65
wife-61
married for 40 years
DS - 38, autistic, lives at home
DD - 37, married and on her own
DS - 32, still living with us
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<<<
The day I found out (end of March) I posted everything I knew on Facebook. Her (teenaged) kids found out this way (which her husband later thanked me for). I then (next day) found her husband online and emailed him. He had just found out as well and could not speak for the first three phone conversations we had without crying. I emailed all of our family members.
My children and I wrote statements about how we felt and sent them to them both and also to her husband who shared them with his kids who then wrote their own responses
>>>
BRAVO
Me 58: FWH (NC 32 yr), W 60, married 36 yr, DD 32
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Pink, welcome to Marriage Builders. I am sorry for the reasons that brought you here. MrEureka is correct. I would focus on absolutely affair proofing your marriage even if means moving to another state. As long as she is close by and there is an opportunity, there is a chance the affair will resume.
Both your husband and you will be perpetually triggered by living in the same environment. My marriage moved into a new realm once we moved out of the house we lived in when I discovered the affair. [the OW never set foot in state either] It made a remarkable difference in our recovery to move.
If you can get away from that environment, he will come out of the fog. When he comes out of the fog it is critically important that this gap is filled by a romantic, passionate marriage with YOU. That skank will never be able to compete with that. NEVER. And having a romantic marriage will take away your pain and despair. [really!] If you are happy in the present, your mind does not go to the tragedy of the past.
But you have to follow this program to do it. It really does work if you work it.
Do you have the book, Survivng an Affair?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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And if she is a counselor, I would report her to the licensing board. Dr Harley made this recommendation to another woman whose husband had an affair with a therapist: Whether in plan A or B, the world should know about your husband's affair. All of your relatives, your friends, your children, and the licensing board for your husband's lover. In some states a licensing board will revoke a license if a counselor is having an affair with a married person, client or not. This is because it's well known that affairs hurt families, especially children. And counselors know better than to have an affair.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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p.s. it is real important to get the book, Surviving an Affair. That is the only book on affairs that actually has a plan to completely recover your marriage. You can get it on kindle too.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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There is one problem - my husband also feels terrible about how much he hurt the other woman. In an effort to 'let her down gently' he told her something that goes like this: "you are the true love of my life and always have been but I need to go back to my terrible wife for the good of my children."
I hate this and it eats away at me. Am I wrong to want my husband to tell her the truth? Of course this eats away at you. The fact is that your WH is in the FOG and foggy waywards are infuriating. My own FWH said things like that and would look at me with a blank stare when I asked him why it was ok to continue to hurt his family and protect the person (OW) who tried to destroy another person's family. Once he got out of the fog he didn't remember many of the hurtful things he said. Exposure to people of influence on both your WH AND OW side will kill their little fantasy world. Have you read Exposure 101 (link in Melody's sig line.) My husband says he does not want to cause more hurt. I agree that I do not want him to be a person who is willing to hurt others. He also says I only want him to tell her the truth in order to cause her pain. I think you actually would just like to see this OW feel the consequences of her own actions. There is nothing hurtful in that. In the real world, every choice has a consequence. Again. Have you read EXPOSURE 101? Your WH also needs to send a NC for life letter which is handwritten and mailed by you. The template has been posted to you earlier. But also, I think her belief that my husband still loves her and - in a perfect world - would be with her instead of me Stick with us. I think your marriage has a great chance of recovering and being stronger than ever. But that is dependent upon you and your WH taking ALL the steps. Exposure Committing to NC for LIFE Complete transparency Eliminating all the conditions that allowed the affair to happen Building an integrated life that would make a secret second life impossible Spending UA time together meeting each others needs
ME: BW
HIM: FWH
Married 18 yrs
DDay 09/2008 and 12/2008
Recovered
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Maybe the best thing to do is to forgive her, forgive him and let it go. I wish I could. I want to. It has been three months of me trying so hard...will this help? What do people think? Forgiveness is something that is EARNED. Read this: Can't We Just Forgive and Forget
ME: BW
HIM: FWH
Married 18 yrs
DDay 09/2008 and 12/2008
Recovered
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Are you snooping to verify no contact? That is an excellent way to start rebuilding the trust... when you can verify what your WH is doing when he thinks that you are not looking.
Any continued contact means that the affair is still on and your WH will remain foggy. The first step is to KILL the affair.
ME: BW
HIM: FWH
Married 18 yrs
DDay 09/2008 and 12/2008
Recovered
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Well it sounds like you exposed like a rockstar - AND you have support. This is exactly the sort of problem your exposure was designed to deal with. Get your supporters to urge your H to write the NC letter. The A is not DEAD or killed until the NC letter happens. She has pined for him for years before and will do again. You know this. So does he. And wants to keep it that way! I applaud what he HAS done to show remorse and agree it is all positive. But do be quite cynical while he remains in the fog. The fact is he did those things to keep hold of you. However he has also kept hold of her. He won't do the one thing it will take to finish things off completely will he? The one thing you desperately need? The remark about you being vengeful and causing her pain was massively disrespectful given that she attacked your family. What you asked for is no more, no less than justice - or as we say in MB 'Just Compensation'. I dont think he is a disrespectful person, I just think the addict in him wants to keep an ember of the affair fire alive. As others have said, due to the addict factor, you can't ask nicely or expect him to do this willingly. You've encountered one of the few circumstances in marriage where it is OK to demand. All of the MB recovery conditions must be demanded. I dont mean with anger, or disrespect - but you must make it clear this is your condition for forgiveness. It is the only way for you to know whether he is back for good, or back for now. my kids (17 year-olds) are amazing and saw through every fake word she wrote; this OW is incredibly manipulative but not to those who see through her cliche-ridden fake-feelings, I-am-better-than-you BS. Lol! I quite like you Pink! But do get STD tested. This is not a woman in whose boundaries you should be placing trust.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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.How can a betrayed spouse insist that the wayward spouse end the affair unless a demand is made? The answer is found in the way I define a selfish demand.
Demands carry a threat of punishment -- an if-you-refuse-me-you'll- regret-it kind of thing. In other words, you may dislike what I want, but if you don't do it, I'll see it it that you suffer even greater pain.
To insist that the wayward spouse end the affair should not be made with the threat of punishment ("I'm make you suffer if you don't end it"), but rather with the simple fact that it's the most painful experience you've ever had in your life, and if the affair is not ended, your relationship must end with either a separation or divorce.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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