I agree this is simply another big red flag that says cheater. A withdrawn wife whose lovebank is way in the red doesn�t say awful things, she just clams up and avoids you. She isn�t in conflict either - or she would welcome your responsiveness to her complaints, albeit a bit warily to begin with. Illogical vindictiveness however is usually a sign of an affair.

Every single active adulterer we experience on these forums has the exact same things in common 1) they have opposite sex confidantes and friends, 2) they actively demonise and blame their spouse daily saying HORRIBLE things - it's all part of blaming the victim to ease their conscience and 3) they protect the secrecy of the affair at all costs so they can continue it. It is incredibly rare to see one fess up. One man claimed his wife was hallucinating when she caught him and the OW having sex.

Not only does your wife fit the bill exactly but it is rather alarming that you're expecting a confession as a way of catching her. You're not protecting your marriage from very real dangers.

Think about it - ALL human beings need their emotional needs met, your wife is no exception.

Getting our needs met makes us euphoric. Not getting our needs met makes us miserable. That's why you changed your job so you and your wife could spend more time together meeting key emotional needs.

Yet SHE decided to carry on spending more time at work. Why would she choose misery over an offer of euphoria? I would hazard a guess that someone is meeting her needs there. She is someone who allows men to meet her needs emotionally and there was absolutely nothing stopping her from sharing personal experiences with men in the office and forming a bond with them. Over time this bond will have replaced her brain.

In fact if she is not having an affair I would say it is simply dumb luck that one hasn�t started up yet.




Don't ask this question! Be positive and nice and snoop and the quiet.



Cheaters commonly want to get away from it all and find themselves. They are very often truly good people who hate what they are doing but get confused and blame the BS. The affair partner is usually a loser who is good at listening or meeting some other need but is no good as a long term prospect. I've lost count of the waywards who want to get far away from both husband and lover to try and figure out these problems with a wayward foggy brain.

Lets also not forget she might not be telling the truth. She could simply be spouting this plan as a way to make you believe its definitely over.

It's just so very, very common that when one spouse is definitely done for good and won't hear any reason at all that someone is waiting in the wings.


Add in the opposite sex friends, the hatred directed at you, the
sudden change to divorce plans - and it is worth investigating.

Like I said, there are lots of red flags but it doesnt mean an affair is definitely happening. But you must rule it out before doing anything else!!
Can you have the workplace watched from the street to check out how she spends lunch?

I'm sorry to say it but this is another suspicious response. I was asked this same question when my marriage was on the rocks. My husband was being very abusive but I did not yet know about his affair. (It would have helped his conscience if I was cheating too)

I was sick of him and wanted out, but I didnt get upset when I was asked a simple question. I found it initially amusing because my conscience was clear. The I wanted to know why he thought so and how I could put his mind to rest.

She is so unwilling to try anything to save this marriage. I get a one line response that she say" I simply can not love you the way I should after everything we been through" it has been 10 years together how could one just throw that all away?

How? If they're addicted to someone else is one way.

How? If they believe the M can't be something different than it was before is another (lack of understanding MB concepts).

So is there any hope in making this work? When she is so unwilling? Or am I wasting time and in denial that it is over

There's always hope if you're trying to follow Dr. Harley's advice.

Right now your W is either in an affair or in withdrawal. Neither of those circumstances means your M is doomed.

Dr. Harley has very specific directions on what to do to recover from either situation.

Both require you doing the best Plan A possible. So continue to do all the things you believe will make deposits in her LoveBank.

You need to rule out an affair. What I have to say next presupposes she isn�t.

Eliminate all LoveBusters. I suspect you haven�t done all that you can. If you want to be the H she needs you to be you have to rid your life of these.

Example, the drinking. Smelling alcohol on your breath the next day??? I�m sure this freaked her out.
If you asked her if it bothers her. She�s in withdrawal and doesn�t care what you do � so you�ll get that answer for everything � even though it really bothers her and justifies her reasons for D. So stop the drinking.

Disrespectful judgements. Your posts are laced with them.

I don�t recall you telling us that she said that. All we�ve heard is that so much damage has been done that she�ll never be able to regain a loving R. So unless that is what she is really doing then stop saying it. Knowing she knows nothing about MB her statement of what�s gone is gone from her perspective makes total sense to me. Not that I believe it.

How long has it been since you�ve fought with your W? Long enough that she should see you are a different man? Days, weeks, months?

There are probably some things you could do that would show her you�re doing more than just putting up a front. For instance, did you ever go through anger management classes? I could never imagine calling my W a piece of crap during a fit of anger.

You say you�ve changed this behavior all on your own. She probably doesn�t buy it. Typical abuser behavior. Be nice for a while until the partner is drawn back in � then resort to the same behaviors as before. Maybe consider something a little more tangible that she�d build confidence from.

Based on what you�ve stated here it may take you a while to pull her back into a state of conflict (where she�d be willing to discuss anything with you).

As far as trying to get her on board. Your best bet would be to call Dr Chalmers or Steve Harley and ask them to help you with that. They�re very good at getting reluctant spouses on board.

But they will tell you the same thing we�ve told you. RULE OUT AN AFFAIR!!!! You can�t compete with an affair partner.

Owen, I hate to pile on because so many other people have said it already. But back in March, I was where you were. Granted, I didn't have any examples of angry outbursts that my WW could use against me. But she said "I don't love you", and "I love you but am not in love with you." She blamed it on various things that I had done, though she had never complained about them at the time. I was also convinced there wasn't an affair, because I had done a little snooping and didn't turn up anything. Well, I posted in this forum and MelodyLane and others kept bringing it up. They did it so much and I was so annoyed by it that I actually stopped posting for a while. I was convinced my WW had just simply fallen out of love with me because of the reasons she mentioned. She eventually also asked for a divorce/separation, just like your wife. She also stopped sleeping in the bed with me. At first she started sleeping on the couch, then she moved into one of our daughter's bedrooms. Really in many ways our stories sound so similar, except my WW didn't work outside the home. She simply tended to hang out with "friends" a lot at night - innocent enough right?

Well, guess what. She was having an affair after all. All of my instincts were wrong about her. I didn't want to believe it so I subconsciously blocked out all of the little red flags, since there was no smoking gun. I ultimately found out when my own mother said "Isn't it a little funny that she is referring to the OM as 'Uncle so-and-so?' to the kids?" And then a few days after that I talked to one of my WW's best friends, who spilled the beans.

So please, don't trust your instincts on this. You don't want to believe that the mother of your children and the woman you married is with someone else - it is just too hard to believe it. But from what I've heard this sounds very likely. Wayward spouses can be very sneaky - they buy disposable phones, they create alternate email accounts. Also a lot of stuff could be on her work computer, which you don't have access to. Honestly it may not be feasible at all given your financial situation, but I would hire a PI if at all possible. I would also take a look at her phone. My WW did a lot of stuff on her phone (which I had given her as a 15th anniversary present!!), and was very secretive about it. She had a passcode on it and kept it close to her at all times.

By the way, even the title of your thread - "trying to understand" - is exactly the way I felt about my situation before I discovered the affair. I heard my WW's explanations but none of it quite added up or made sense. Why would she want to divorce me and leave me over some issues which I was willing to fix? I couldn't understand it until I knew there was someone else in the picture.

What snooping techniques do you have in place?

I have access to all email accounts that I know of, Facebook and also all phone records which she has no idea that I have password. Nothing was out of norm, does eliminate work phone but I think I'm clear. Not ruling it out but really don't see how she would create the time, I drive by the club and it is pack normally, when she works late on weekends it is still packed with cars. Also does not rule out the possibility of an A but what else can I do? My funds are limited now after retaining a lawyer. I have not been able to look at text messages but more than likely she would have deleted.

Can you afford to put spyware on her phone?

I'm not really sure, how much does it cost? My funds are really tight!! I had to make sure I retained a good lawyer, plus providing for every day essentials. Do you know of a company? How is it installed?

What kind of phone does she have?

I know it is an android what make an model I'm not sure, it is password locked, it has since the beginning. She told me what it was but I forgot, i really can't ask her now.

Check this out.

Eblaster is a good one.
Phone Spyware

I just had a very long talk with your cousin/best friend/my business partner. I questioned her on everything that was discussed in this forum about her cheating. She told me that was not it. She is not cheating, she has just reached her point of no return. The efforts I'm making she does not believe, she thinks I'm putting on a show to try and get her back. This is understandable however, my actions and angry outburst have not been that bad throughout this marriage. I have said some horrible things and I think she thinks nothing will ever change. That to is understandable.

I really think I need to just give her peace, fight for 50/50 custody and be done! Honesty I think my angry outburst were caused by my emotional neglect from her . No excuse here my actions were not and will not ever be justified. She can not go back to the way things were, I myself can not either.

How does one cope! Should I remain active and busy non-stop to keep my mind off this? Will the hurt and pain ever go away?

You don't need her willingness!

Owen you must remember that love does not operate on a conscious level. People don't wake up one morning and decide consciously they want to be in love. That's actually how affairs happen too. Nobody is truly willing to have one - the lovebank effect happens subconsciously. It's a gradual effect and there's nothing stopping you from making lovebank deposits.

Dr Harley understands that and you need to familiarise yourself with how the lovebank works.

If you (and only you) are making lovebank deposits her feelings will change whether she wants them to or not.

If you lovebust, you'll have a wife who's not interested, if you make lovebank deposits she will be.

Sure its easier if she is on board but there are multiple ways you can make deposits every day.

Can you suggest any other ways besides what I'm currently doing when she is so unwilling?

To answer above poster are last fight was about a month ago. We have not fought since. We got into a heated discussion yesterday however we both agreed to drop it. That conversation was trying to get her on board with MB my second attempt. She started out interested, but then quickly changed her mind when I told her it can restore love in this marriage. She told me she did not want to restore love she just wanted it over. She said she can never love me the way she should and to let her have peace. Then she said I will go if it helps you get over me. So again not really sure what that is suppose to mean.

I like mentioned above I had a long conversation with her best friend/cousin and the affair is not happening. Their still could be a chance of one in my opinion but from what she told her she just wanted to end the cycle of our fights and have relief from the day to day bickering.

I have also been suggesting activities to do has a family. I brought up taking the kids to the cider mill a few days ago and yesterday she took them there and said she really did nor want me to come. Every effort has been turned down. It's becoming really hard to make deposits with her. She has shut down! I'm still doing the things I mentioned in an early post but the hugs have stopped.

Come on here daily for coaching. The men here who have Plan A'd especially are experts. But the way Dr Harley puts it is just be a nice guy. Be her go-to guy. Be her co-parent, be her friend. She doesn�t realise it, but we usually fall for our best friends. Push the friendship angle and family angle and just let it be known that you're there for her whenever she needs you.

A month isn�t very long to see results, you must be patient. Bring her hot drinks at night and in the morning. Make her favourite sandwich, record her favourite programmes, call her up, let her know you care. It's like the old phrase 'softly, softly catchee monkee'. Dont scare her with big relationship talks, just be nice, gentle and supportive.

You don�t remember this, but this is how you courted your wife originally. The difference is you were patient because you didn't care so much, you were just seeing how it went. Now the stakes are higher and she is more aggressive about blocking you - but you can still pull the same trick twice if you hold your nerve and keep your patience. Desperation is a turn off! If she says no, smile and say 'maybe another time'.




Dont lecture her or allow things to get heated. Keep it simple by letting her know you want to do this. End of discussion. Leave the book lying around. Leave it up to her if she wants to do it too.
Then, lead by example.



You did great! Offering to include her is affection = affection need met. One penny in the lovebank. It doesnt matter that she turned you down, she knows you cared enough to offer. Do this more. Be patient.



She's feeling guilty about hurting you. Another red flag, I'm afraid. I am deeply concerned about all the things you mention which indicate an affair.

Why on earth did you ask her best friend if she was having an affair? Any decent person would have told you without needing to be asked! She either doesnt know about any affair or she is covering for her friend. And just because she doesnt know about the affair doesnt mean there isnt one.

Is this best friend a decent, moral person whose word you can trust? Well then she'd be the last person your wife would tell about an affair.

All waywards are horribly ashamed of the affair and the last thing they want is for the people who love them to know about it.

Waywards only tell people with lax morals who will be supportive of adultery. And people who can be trusted not to tell you about it.

You've got to snoop like a blood hound and check this out thoroughly.

You only spoke to the BF for reassurance - and reassurance isnt going to save your marriage.